Valid confession?

[rwillenborg]

Can you be sorry that you offended God but still be pleased with the worldly consequences of your action?
Let’s say you stole a million dollars. And you are now living comfortably off of that million dollars. But you are starting to feel badly about it. You confess it, because you do, in all honesty, feel badly about your theft. But, you still live in opulence and drive a nice car, all purchased with your ill-gotten funds. Does that still count as a valid confession? Can you be truly sorry while still enjoying the fruits of your sin? Or do you have to be ‘sorry enough’ to correct your action?

And can you be sorry for a sin that you will likely repeat?
My husband and I use contraceptives. I go to confession for this. I go to confession because I really AM truly sorry that I am not acting in accordance with God’s will. But I’m NOT sorry to delay pregnancy. But will I stop using contraceptives? Probably not. But I MIGHT. That option is always available. And I feel like the ONLY way I will have the strength to throw those things out is through constant receipt of the sacraments - namely confession and holy communion. So, I’m confused. Is my confession valid? I thought maybe it wasn’t because I don’t have a fully contrite heart, but then I thought that I AM sorry, and I shouldn’t STOP going to confession based on the assumption that I will PROBABLY sin again. I mean, ALL of us will PROBABLY sin again, right? So, I’m confused.

 

[Danuska]

I am afraid the confession in both cases is not valid. In your personal case - you do not resolve not to sin again, you do not even have that will. That is one of the conditions of a goo. d, valid confession

You are also supposed to rectify your wrong actions, so after stealing money, you’d have to pay it back… Otherwise, it is all treating the Sacrament as a joke…

Why not use natural method? Try and read on the net, it will turn out that it is just as effective as other methods, which are not 100 per cent effective. Plus, you need to learn to trust Jesus, if that is the way you approach your fertility, it is still a long way for you to go - you have to learn to trust that He has a perfect plan for you, the Church allows us to use natural method when we want to delay pregnancy, but we also have to trust Jesus that He knows what is best for us, how many children (if any!) is best for us to bring up, or what kind of path to take in our life. And that even if it seems like the Earth is crumbling, there is Someone in control. Pray the Divine Mercy chaplet and learn to trust Jesus with your whole heart.

 

[rwillenborg]

I am afraid the confession in both cases is not valid. In your personal case - you do not resolve not to sin again, you do not even have that will. That is one of the conditions of a goo. d, valid confession

You are also supposed to rectify your wrong actions, so after stealing money, you’d have to pay it back… Otherwise, it is all treating the Sacrament as a joke…

Why not use natural method? Try and read on the net, it will turn out that it is just as effective as other methods, which are not 100 per cent effective. Plus, you need to learn to trust Jesus, if that is the way you approach your fertility, it is still a long way for you to go - you have to learn to trust that He has a perfect plan for you, the Church allows us to use natural method when we want to delay pregnancy, but we also have to trust Jesus that He knows what is best for us, how many children (if any!) is best for us to bring up, or what kind of path to take in our life. And that even if it seems like the Earth is crumbling, there is Someone in control. Pray the Divine Mercy chaplet and learn to trust Jesus with your whole heart.

Thank you. I wasn’t sure. I’ll stop going to confession. I’m not trying to make a joke of it.
We were using NFP. I became pregnant immediately. With twins. I’m sure you can understand my hesitation to return to doing something which clearly did not work.
I keep thinking maybe if I hadn’t gotten pregnant the VERY first time we used NFP, or maybe if I had only had ONE baby, like everybody else, I might be more open to the idea.
An even greater obstacle is my husband.
He has stated in no uncertain terms that a return to NFP would mean no more sex, not ever. I could live with that (grumpily, mind you, but if it’s God’s will that I be celibate in my marriage, than that’s God’s will), but I don’t think it’s fair to put that on him. He certainly did not sign up for a celibate life in marriage (he’s also not catholic) and I would hate for this to drive a wedge in what is otherwise a really wonderful marraige.
And I want to be clear, my husband has this stance, not because he’s trying to be a jerk, he’s actually the most wonderful person, but because he knows the gravity of us having more children at this point, and won’t risk it.
While we were dating we used contraceptives for seven years. Never failed us. NFP failed us on day one. In the last couple of years, I have rediscovered the beauty of my Catholic faith which I had cast aside, and that was why I wanted to use NFP in the first place. He was very supportive. Maybe the Catholic faith isn’t for me. Maybe I just can’t handle the responsibility of what comes along with it.

 

[Joan_M]

And can you be sorry for a sin that you will likely repeat?
My husband and I use contraceptives. I go to confession for this. I go to confession because I really AM truly sorry that I am not acting in accordance with God’s will. But I’m NOT sorry to delay pregnancy. But will I stop using contraceptives? Probably not. But I MIGHT. That option is always available. And I feel like the ONLY way I will have the strength to throw those things out is through constant receipt of the sacraments - namely confession and holy communion. So, I’m confused. Is my confession valid? I thought maybe it wasn’t because I don’t have a fully contrite heart, but then I thought that I AM sorry, and I shouldn’t STOP going to confession based on the assumption that I will PROBABLY sin again. I mean, ALL of us will PROBABLY sin again, right? So, I’m confused.

Yes, you CAN be sorry for a sin that you may repeat - PROVIDED that you, at the time of confession, have the intention to stop committing it.

In your case, since from what you have written, you know you are doing wrong and want to stop, (but like St. Augustine, not just yet ) I strongly advise that you find a good priest for a confessor and discuss this matter with him. He will help you to overcome this. Even if he cannot give you absolution for a specific confession, he will give you advice on how to grow towards true contrition. Please, do not stop going to confession. Find a good priest who will help you with this. On your own, you may take a long, long time to overcome this. With the help of a priest, you are likely to overcome quicker.

 

[Danuska]

Just one more thing, I think that you should go to confession one more time, but make an appointment with a priest so that you have time to discuss it all and tell him everything you have written in this forum. There are circumstances that priests take into consideration in giving absolution - I am not an expert on that, so who knows…

But you cannot go to confession with the resolution to repeat the sin right after, you are not sincere then

Before that, pray for the confessor as well. And as I said, especially since you said you rediscovered the beauty of your faith, do not fail to pray to God for guidance. Even better, maybe make a retreat?

I will pray for you too.

 

[rayne89]

If your husband chooses to use contraception even though you oppose contraception you are free from culpabilty. You as a Catholic can not be the one using contraception.
Please see links below.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=232361&highlight=birth+control

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=76765
From the above link (response to a question posed to Catholic Answers Apologist Michelle Arnold)

Although you cannot yourself use contraception (e.g., condoms), you can engage in marital relations with your wife even if she insists on using contraception herself (e.g., the Pill). You are required to make known to her your objection to using contraception, to pray for her and to provide her with information on the issue of why you oppose contraception (e.g., moral and physical dangers); but, for the sake of maintaining the marriage, you are not required to abstain from the marital act with her.

 

[puzzleannie]

contrition and penance include restitution, in so far as it is possible, so yes you have to do your best to give the money back.

 

[agapewolf]

He has stated in no uncertain terms that a return to NFP would mean no more sex, not ever. I could live with that (grumpily, mind you, but if it’s God’s will that I be celibate in my marriage, than that’s God’s will), but I don’t think it’s fair to put that on him. He certainly did not sign up for a celibate life in marriage (he’s also not catholic) and I would hate for this to drive a wedge in what is otherwise a really wonderful marraige.

Maybe I just can’t handle the responsibility of what comes along with it.

But you would rather drive a wedge between you and God than with your husband. God comes first, THEN your husband. By the way, contraception IS driving a wedge between you and your husband, you just might not see it.

Do not empty the cross of its power. Of course you can handle the responsibility that comes with it, if you couldn’t, then Jesus’ death and resurrection means nothing.

One other thing…did NFP really and trully not work? or did you tell yourself that? In my experience in talking with couples, in fact, every single one that I have talked to, they “fudged” a day, or ignored the signs, or told themselves that it was probably ok, when it was clear by the rules it wasn’t.

I’m sure there are a few cases where conception happened when all of the signs indicated infertility, but instead of being beligerant, REJOICE!! GOD CREATED A MIRACLE! Think about it, if you weren’t ovulating, but conceived, it was even more a miracle.

 

[Hlafdige]

If your husband chooses to use contraception even though you oppose contraception you are free from culpabilty. You as a Catholic can not be the one using contraception.
Please see links below.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=232361&highlight=birth+control

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=76765
From the above link (response to a question posed to Catholic Answers Apologist Michelle Arnold)

Yes, but what loving spouse, convinced that artificial contraception is sin, would want to place the burden of responsibility for mortal sin on their mate?

 

[Ruthie]

I am woozy with cold medicine, so am not certain I’m right on this…

I think you can still be absolved without a contrite heart, if your motive for confessing is the fear of hell.

Someone ***please ***correct me if I’m wrong.

Ruthie

 

[rwillenborg]

Thank you everyone for your helpful words. I don’t have much time to post, but I am grateful that a community such as this exists. It is very helpful.

That being said, I’m even MORE confused!

I think the best thing for me to do at this point is go and talk to a priest about it. I don’t want to talk to my regular priest about it, though. He’s always so delighted to see the babies, I wouldn’t want him to think that I see them as anything but wonderful. I will probably go to my old parish and talk to the priest there (we had to switch parishes to one within walking distance)
In an ironic twist, at my old parish they will be teaching another class on NFP. I thought maybe I should take the class again. Except they want both of us to go, of course, and then who watches the babies? I assure you, the irony of the situation is not lost on me.

Yes, but what loving spouse, convinced that artificial contraception is sin, would want to place the burden of responsibility for mortal sin on their mate?

Good point. I think this is one of the things I will have to talk to the priest about. It DOES make sense, that the church is interested in preserving the marriage, but then again, I would feel terrible knowing that when we had sex I would be inadvertently damning my husband to hell.

But you would rather drive a wedge between you and God than with your husband. God comes first, THEN your husband. By the way, contraception IS driving a wedge between you and your husband, you just might not see it.

Do not empty the cross of its power. Of course you can handle the responsibility that comes with it, if you couldn’t, then Jesus’ death and resurrection means nothing.

One other thing…did NFP really and trully not work? or did you tell yourself that? In my experience in talking with couples, in fact, every single one that I have talked to, they “fudged” a day, or ignored the signs, or told themselves that it was probably ok, when it was clear by the rules it wasn’t.

I’m sure there are a few cases where conception happened when all of the signs indicated infertility, but instead of being beligerant, REJOICE!! GOD CREATED A MIRACLE! Think about it, if you weren’t ovulating, but conceived, it was even more a miracle.

I was using the sympto-thermal method. We had intercourse ONCE during my first cycle using NFP on what should have been the safest day. I charted. I checked my temperature at the exact same time every day. After I found out I was pregnant I sent my chart to the couple who had taught the class. They confirmed what my safe days would be. They were wrong. NFP was wrong. It failed. I’m not trying to be a smarty pants here, so please don’t take this as such, but I would guess that for those couples for whom NFP failed, they just don’t come back to tell you about it. Or anyone. It’s really rather embarassing. I lied to everyone and told them that I forgot to take a birth control pill. I was too embarassed to tell anyone the truth.
And I waver, I’ll be honest with you. Some days I think to myself 'This is SO amazing! I gave God a window, a teeny tiny window, and He must have thought ‘This girl’s a tough nut to crack. She doesn’t often give me opportunities to work. So I had better work fast’ and then wammo blammo I get pregnant and he thinks ‘just to be on the safe side, I should throw in one more’ and wammo blammo it’s twins.
So, yes, sometimes I DO rejoice and see they are miracles.
Then the bills come.
And more bills.
And yet, more bills.
And I think ‘I can’t afford anymore miracles. Give them to somebody else.’
The girls are fraternal. Do you know what demographic has the highest likelihood of having twins? People who have already had twins! Who knew, eh?
I KNEW I was pregnant with twins. The doctor heard ONE heartbeat. She said I had ONE baby. I told her she was wrong. I just KNEW, y’know? Whenever someone would ask me about the baby (singular) this voice in my head would say ‘Don’t forget about my sister!’ because deep down I KNEW it was twins.
As certain as I was then, I am certain, undoubtedly certain that to return to NFP would result in another set of twins. Immediately. I just know it.
And I think ‘Where would they sleep? The bathtub?’ The babies already sleep in our room. Where would the two new babies that would be inevitable through NFP sleep? We’re running out of bed!! :juggle:
But then I go back to being so happy that my girls are here.
I go back and forth, back and forth on these thoughts.
It really and truly tears me up.
When I suggested we go back to NFP, my husband said ‘Is it because it worked so brilliantly before?’
I mean, if you bought a car and it blew up the first time you drove it, would you buy that car again?
(I know, I know, you would if that car was your ticket to eternal salvation, but I think you all get my point which is that, what kind of a fool keeps doing what clearly doesn’t work)
I’m AMAZED, jaw-dropping amazed that people actually use NFP and it works. I know they do, it’s not like people are lying about it. But honestly, I would be more likely to believe you saw the chupakabra.
Yet, I think we should go back.
I just really really don’t want to get pregnant and I really really don’t want to alienate myself from my husband. He thinks this NFP stuff is nonsense (I was lucky I could convince him the first time around) and the fact that it failed us only proves his point. Again, we would be facing a celibate marriage, and I don’t think it’s in God’s plan to put up a wall between me and my husband. I love him, and not that I think my husband would do this, but people walk away from marriages in situations like this. It’s scary to think that I would be chasing my husband away.

 

[Cristiano]

Yes, but what loving spouse, convinced that artificial contraception is sin, would want to place the burden of responsibility for mortal sin on their mate?

A spouse that loves God. You make it sound like the mate does not have free will! This is absurd this is not putting the burden of mortal sin on someone else. It is just rejecting mortal sin.

 

[agapewolf]

I was using the sympto-thermal method. We had intercourse ONCE during my first cycle using NFP on what should have been the safest day. I charted. I checked my temperature at the exact same time every day. After I found out I was pregnant I sent my chart to the couple who had taught the class. They confirmed what my safe days would be. They were wrong. NFP was wrong.

I just really really don’t want to get pregnant and I really really don’t want to alienate myself from my husband. He thinks this NFP stuff is nonsense (I was lucky I could convince him the first time around) and the fact that it failed us only proves his point. Again, we would be facing a celibate marriage, and I don’t think it’s in God’s plan to put up a wall between me and my husband. I love him, and not that I think my husband would do this, but people walk away from marriages in situations like this. It’s scary to think that I would be chasing my husband away.

See, it is my understanding that in all methods you must abstain the first full cycle. So if this is true, then you did not do NFP correctly. It took me 2 years to just iron out my health issues, and then another 4 months to get the hang of it the way it was supposed to go. Give yourself a chance!!! One month is NOT learning it fully. You could have a health issue that is causing your symptoms to be all off…so then NFP again would not be wrong.

Can you see this? Can you see what you are saying? You want to use NFP to follow God’s will and not put your soul in danger…and you are using the fact that your husband would walk away as a reason to put your soul in danger. Can you see the priority problem?

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

Part of marriage is the openness to children. If God, who is the Author of Life, gives you children, do you not think that He will also give you the means to support them? It is not easy. Nobody said that it would be, but trust in Him and He will give you what you need.

Also, remember that most contraceptives, including the pill, are abortifacient. They allow conception to take place but prevent the newly-forming child from implanting in the uterine wall, causing an abortion a few days after conception.

 

[rwillenborg]

See, it is my understanding that in all methods you must abstain the first full cycle. So if this is true, then you did not do NFP correctly. It took me 2 years to just iron out my health issues, and then another 4 months to get the hang of it the way it was supposed to go. Give yourself a chance!!! One month is NOT learning it fully. You could have a health issue that is causing your symptoms to be all off…so then NFP again would not be wrong.

Can you see this? Can you see what you are saying? You want to use NFP to follow God’s will and not put your soul in danger…and you are using the fact that your husband would walk away as a reason to put your soul in danger. Can you see the priority problem?

I meant the first cycle that we USED NFP. I tracked my cycles for twelve months before actually using NFP. Sorry, I should have been clearer. I am absolutely certain that I have some underlying health issue. No one’s been able to figure out it yet, though. And I don’t have time anymore to try to figure it out. It’s hard enough to get the girls to their doctors appointments. Let alone my own. And don’t even get me STARTED on dental appointments! When you start HOPING you will see your dentist soon, you KNOW you’re in bad shape!
I can absolutely see what I am saying, and I understand it doesn’t make a ton of sense.
It’s very difficult though to put my marriage (which I, and God I presume, take very seriously and which DOES work, really well) in jeopardy for the sake of NFP, which didn’t work.
I have this vision in my head of my wonderful husband getting fed up and leaving, and my wonderful family getting broken up. I’m sure that’s not what God wants either.
Would my wonderful husband do that? I don’t think so. He’s wonderful. But everyone has a breaking point, and I don’t care to push my husband to his.

Part of marriage is the openness to children. If God, who is the Author of Life, gives you children, do you not think that He will also give you the means to support them? It is not easy. Nobody said that it would be, but trust in Him and He will give you what you need.

Also, remember that most contraceptives, including the pill, are abortifacient. They allow conception to take place but prevent the newly-forming child from implanting in the uterine wall, causing an abortion a few days after conception.

Yeah, I don’t use the pill. I heard it was an abortifacent and stopped using it. We use condoms.
They always SAY that God will give me the means to support the children He gives me. I just don’t believe it. It’s a trust issue, I know that. It’s hard to get around. It’s hard because there have been other times, that I had put my trust in the Lord, and things worked out very, very badly. I know, I know, it’s all part of his plan. But what if part of His plan, too, is that I can’t afford my living expenses anymore and have to move into a shelter? What if that’s his plan? I have a terrible feeling that’s His plan, because I can’t see this story - me back on NFP, pregnant with twins again, broke again, ending any other way.
And now I’m in despair. Which is pretty sinful, too. Man, I can’t win for losing tonight!

 

[GodsGadfly]

To answer the original question, but not the example, I would say “Yes.”

The Redemption is a consequence of Original Sin. We can’t rejoice in Original Sin but we can still rejoice in its consequences.

God brings good out of evil, if we let Him.

It’s hard to find someone who is rich who is not probably guilty of getting that money in some way improperly: whether by contracepting so as to avoid children, or by lying and cheating at work, or by paying his workers less of the company’s earnings than he should have. So that person gets older, gets rich, and realizes he needs to make things right with God. Like Zacchaeus, he first pays back what he took unjustly, with interest, and then gives abundantly to charity from the rest.

Those who receive the fruits of his charity can rejoice at it, even though they money may have been ill-gotten to begin with.

Or someone is addicted to a particular sin or struggles with a character defect. She goes to confession every month and confesses that same addiction or defect, then does better for a few weeks, and then falls off the wagon. She really does intend, each time, not to do it again, but there are so many factors involved: bad habits, external temptations, psychological issues and so forth, that each month she just tries, successfully or unsuccessfully, to at least eliminate one of the factors facilitating the habitual sin.

In that case, the confession is fine.
BUt even St. Paul and St. Thomas Aquinas would suggest that perhaps God allows that habitual sin to keep her humble, perhaps to keep her from doing something far worse.

And maybe the time comes that, through God’s grace, she finally overcomes it. Then she has one amazing conversion story to tell.

She’s reformed her life at last, but by going through that journey, she is now more compassionate to other people’s sinful burdens. She now has all sorts of advice to give to others in her former situation. She can see in retrospect how there were important lessons she had to learn from being trapped in that bad situation. She can be grateful to God for both permitting her that trial and helping her get out of it.

Thus, she can rejoice in the consequences of her (truly repented) sins.

 

[agapewolf]

. I am absolutely certain that I have some underlying health issue. No one’s been able to figure out it yet, though. And I don’t have time anymore to try to figure it out.

though to put my marriage (which I, and God I presume, take very seriously and which DOES work, really well) in jeopardy for the sake of NFP, which didn’t work

p

Oh my…see, you just said you are certain you have a health issue. Then I’m sorry, NFP did NOT FAIL. If you have a health issue that is messing up your signs…then NFP did not fail. It was impossible. Because you couldn’t p(name removed by moderator)oint fertility, you coulnd’t avoid it. Please stop saying it didn’t work.

And you dont’ have time to figure out a health issue? Oh my goodness. The health issue is one very huge reason to use NFP…to figure it out and take care of it. How in the world can you ignore something as important as that? When I started charting NFP, my doc and I caught potentially pre-cancerous symptoms. How much time will you have if you get cancer?

By the way, you would NOT be putting your marriage at stake for NFP. You are looking at it backwards. You will be putting your marriage at stake if you DON’T use NFP. (as opposed to ABC). You would be giving your marriage the best shot at surviving getting rid of the ABC.

 

[rwillenborg]

Oh my…see, you just said you are certain you have a health issue. Then I’m sorry, NFP did NOT FAIL. If you have a health issue that is messing up your signs…then NFP did not fail. It was impossible. Because you couldn’t p(name removed by moderator)oint fertility, you coulnd’t avoid it. Please stop saying it didn’t work.

And you dont’ have time to figure out a health issue? Oh my goodness. The health issue is one very huge reason to use NFP…to figure it out and take care of it. How in the world can you ignore something as important as that? When I started charting NFP, my doc and I caught potentially pre-cancerous symptoms. How much time will you have if you get cancer?

By the way, you would NOT be putting your marriage at stake for NFP. You are looking at it backwards. You will be putting your marriage at stake if you DON’T use NFP. (as opposed to ABC). You would be giving your marriage the best shot at surviving getting rid of the ABC.

I should explain.
I said I am certain I have underlying health issues because that’s what the NFP people told me must be the case. I had charted everything correctly, so they said the only other thing left is that something was wrong.
I went to my regular doctor. She said I was picture perfect healthy.
I went to a different doctor. (The NFP couple also suggested pre-cancerous symptoms, so I thought better safe than sorry.) THAT doctor said I was picture perfect healthy.
So, NFP people say something must be wrong. Doctors say I’m fine.
I have irregular cycles. Years ago, I went to a string of doctors to try to fix it. All they did was give me birth control pills, which I didn’t really want to take and since the irregular cycles really didn’t bother me that much, I opted not to take the pills. They gave me lots of tests back them for all of that, and all of THOSE came back normal.
The NFP couple said that having an irregular cycle would not make NFP fail, so it was fine (especially with my meticulous nature in charting and the such).
If NFP didn’t fail, what did?

 

[agapewolf]

Did you go to an NFP -only doc? I went to a regular doc and she said I was perfectly healthy. I went to an NFP-only doc who looks at my charts and he saw the issues from the charts.

Most docs, unfortunately, don’t even know when ovulation happens. I’m not exaggerating.

NFP-only docs can read your charts, fix probs without giving you any ABC.

 

[rwillenborg]

Did you go to an NFP -only doc? I went to a regular doc and she said I was perfectly healthy. I went to an NFP-only doc who looks at my charts and he saw the issues from the charts.

Most docs, unfortunately, don’t even know when ovulation happens. I’m not exaggerating.

NFP-only docs can read your charts, fix probs without giving you any ABC.

The first time, when I was younger and went for my irregular cycles issue, I went to my regular doctor, non-NFP.
Then I got pregnant and stayed with my regular doctor for the duration of my pregnancy and for the post-partum checkups. Once my regular cycles returned (and, oddly, they’ve been regular since the girls were born, but that was only nine months ago, so who knows if they’ll stay that way - before I got pregnant I could be regular for up to a year and then wacky for a year, so I’m not terribly hopeful that this new situation will stay that way) I went back to my regular doctor and asked her if she could check for any health problems (everyone was talking about thyroid issues could have an impact, too, and it was time for my regular check-up with her anyway) and she said everything was fine.
Then I went to what I can only assume was an NFP doctor because she was recommended by the NFP couple, and she tested me for who knows what, she took blood and urine samples, so I guess whatever you can do with those, and she said I was also very healthy. She’s like a two hour drive away from me though, and she’s not in my insurance’s network, so I’ll not be going back to her. And since now my cycles are regular there’s really nothing for her to ‘fix’ per se.
She wanted to see my charts from when I was on NFP, but I had thrown those out ages ago. She said I probably charted wrong.
So, again, I’m at something of an impasse here. The NFP couple said it was a health problem and the doctor could help. The NFP doctor said it was a charting problem and the NFP couple could help.