Valid Confession

[HNA444]

The last confession I had was a couple days before Christmas Eve, and I had confessed face-to-face the priest. I mainly went to cofness that I missed mass on Sunday, after knowing it was a mortal sin. I didn’t purposely want to miss mass, just to be clear. I confessed this sin, however, I missed a sin of saying lustful thoughts (although i really don’t have them that much anymore) but i still wanted to say it, and than he started talking and i kind of just left it out. he told me to say the act of contrition and that was it. I thought it was a valid confession and I received the Eucharist on Christmas Eve, but I started to think after, that maybe it wasn’t a valid confession because I missed saying a sin. So, I haven’t taken Eucharist on mass since. What are your thoughts? Was this valid or invalid? I planned on going confession, but have put it off because I get nervous. And, I want to remember all the sins that I’ve felt bad about.

 

[Bookcat]

I would recommend you get to confession in any case…you can speak with the priest about what happened. It has been a few months and it can be good for you to go…but do not stress over trying to say all the venial ones…to “get all the venial sins” you are sorry for…only mortal sins need to be confessed (and in number and kind etc) …you can intend the rest of the venial sins…(such can perhaps also help your nerviousness…streamline things for you)

Lustful thoughts yes could be mortal…if as in the case of all mortal sins one has the full knowledge and complete consent…but just cause some thought “happened” does not mean one sinned…

This may have some bearing here: jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2005/04/confession_vali.html

 

[HNA444]

I would recommend you get to confession in any case…you can speak with the priest about what happened. It has been a few months and it can be good for you to go…but do not stress over trying to say all the venial ones…to “get all the venial sins” you are sorry for…only mortal sins need to be confessed (and in number and kind etc) …you can intend the rest of the venial sins…(such can perhaps also help your nerviousness…streamline things for you)

Lustful thoughts yes could be mortal…if as in the case of all mortal sins one has the full knowledge and complete consent…but just cause some thought “happened” does not mean one sinned…

This may have some bearing here: jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2005/04/confession_vali.html

Well, to be honest I don’t think these thoughts were mortal, and i don’t even remember the exact thoughts of them. but, i wanted to say them just in case. But, lets say even if it is a venial sin, but you remember you had these thoughts in the past and dont say it, than is the confession still valid?

 

[puzzleannie]

The last confession I had was a couple days before Christmas Eve, and I had confessed face-to-face the priest. I mainly went to cofness that I missed mass on Sunday, after knowing it was a mortal sin. I didn’t purposely want to miss mass, just to be clear.

if you did not purposely miss Mass you committed no mortal sin, and you have been fretting and refraining from communion for almost 3 months for no reason, and you also have not a shred of a reason for doubting the validity of your absolution. This doubt and worry are serious since they are separating you from the sacrments, but they are not sins. You need to speak to your confessor as soon as possible, not because you were not absolved, because you were, but because you are allowing these senseless doubts to damage your spiritual health.

 

[Bookcat]

Well, to be honest I don’t think these thoughts were mortal, and i don’t even remember the exact thoughts of them. but, i wanted to say them just in case. But, lets say even if it is a venial sin, but you remember you had these thoughts in the past and dont say it, than is the confession still valid?

One only needs to confess mortal sins…venial sins are recommended to confess but they can be forgiven in any number of ways (and if one was sorry for venial sins they can be absolved even in confession without directly mentioning them…such as when one adds…and all my sins…)

I can no say for you what they were…but confession is a great thing…I would go and lay it all out…and prob. I would talk with him about your fears too…

 

[Bookcat]

(from previous posts of mine)

Regarding thoughts

while Jesus makes it clear that one can sin in ones thoughts…just cause some lustful thought happens does not mean that one sinned…

(and one can have a sufficiently good reason to think about sexual matters…for instance studying moral theology…but care must be taken to avoid things that would be a problem…but that is another question)

What should we do with* unwanted* sexual thoughts or other bad thoughts…thoughts against God etc? Those pesky temptations that can come …even though we are not seeking them etc…

(there are of course some things we should avoid that cause them…and there can be sin if it is something one should reasonably avoid…but often they come uninvited)

First…Relax. Do not worry.

Now are they mortal sins?

For a mortal sin one needs a grave matter …full knowledge AND deliberate consent!!!

A. If you do not want the thought…it the thought displeases you: it can be a sign actually that you did not give consent or do not give full consent.

B. Even if you felt a temptation for the thought – and were drawn to it —but rejected it and maybe even turned to God : again a sign not full consent.

C. But what if one has a tempting thought --say of a sexual nature and even hesitated for a moment…but then rejected it for one did not want to sin? : it can be partial consent perhaps (and thus a venial sin)-- or it may be no sin at all but rather a strong temptation that drew you but then you saw what was happening and turned away.

D. A temptation can even be very strong or the thoughts very often – but this does NOT mean one has consented! so worry not…even it they go on for a long time…

remember --for it to be mortal there must be that deliberate consent!

What to do? on the spiritual side–relax first of all and remember the above.

Next – know that the more one fears the thoughts the more likely they are to come… or said another way --the more a person seeks to avoid the thoughts the more likely he will have a problem with them. (but do not worry about this either!)

for example: for the next 10 seconds try NOT to think of an apple.

tick tock …

tick tock…

Ok what did you think of? Most likely an apple.

So it is best to ignore them and just not consent and then turn your attention to some other good thing…for instance whatever you are doing. Simply do not consent and move on. and do not worry

another point – thoughts can just happen --they are the stuff with which we think…it is up to us to consent and take them further or not. and just because they are REAL VIVID and almost “think themselves” does not mean per se that one has given ANY consent.

they can be annoying…but need cause no actual harm …

(Now difficulties with thoughts can happen to anyone…and has for centuries…nothing new!..but I will note too that “some” have a condition known as OCD (I knew someone with this once…it was a painful experience)…and thus should seek further professional help to work at overcoming it and to live a more peaceful life)

---

Another help…is the distinction between “first thoughts and emotions” (as Baur calls em) what they call the prima of the prima…“the first of the first” (as one of my Professors called em…he was a Dominican)…these are involuntary things that just come up…such are not sins. They can tempt one of course to sin…or one can then proceed to some sin…but they are the stuff of the mind and emotions which “happen to one” …and really the are opportunities for growing in virtue etc as well…

How to deal with these? First of relax…don’t scruple…don’t fear them…to try to swat them all as the come…just simply turn to other things…or the thing you are doing…or to God…(of course do not consent)…but if you are too defensive against them…they may get worse actually…and confuse you more…instead turn to God or again other good things…accept that hey…somethings wild thoughts will come to you…

There is a story from the desert of the early Centuries of the Church where a younger hermit when to an older one with the problems of thoughts happening to him all the time…the older hermit told him to go outside open his cloak and catch the wind.

The younger hermit said such is not possible…

the older hermit replied --neither is it possible to stop all the thoughts that can come to you…your choice is to say “yes” or “no”.

So relax about “unwanted thoughts”…sometimes they just come…you know like unwanted phone calls from politicitians and salepersons etc…but you can always say “no thank you” or just ignore the call and go about your business

 

[Elizabeth502]

if you did not purposely miss Mass you committed no mortal sin, and you have been fretting and refraining from communion for almost 3 months for no reason, and you also have not a shred of a reason for doubting the validity of your absolution. This doubt and worry are serious since they are separating you from the sacrments, but they are not sins. You need to speak to your confessor as soon as possible, not because you were not absolved, because you were, but because you are allowing these senseless doubts to damage your spiritual health.

That’s it in a nutshell, OP. No contrary advice is suitable.

Importantly, remaining in a state of anxiety tends to keep us from God, to keep us even from approaching Him at times. A focus either on worry or on our “unworthiness” is to take the focus away from God, where it belongs. Your confessor can advise you, as annie said.

 

[HNA444]

if you did not purposely miss Mass you committed no mortal sin, and you have been fretting and refraining from communion for almost 3 months for no reason, and you also have not a shred of a reason for doubting the validity of your absolution. This doubt and worry are serious since they are separating you from the sacrments, but they are not sins. You need to speak to your confessor as soon as possible, not because you were not absolved, because you were, but because you are allowing these senseless doubts to damage your spiritual health.

Yes, I do worry a lot. But, I had explained this to my confessor during confession and he didn’t say whether or not it was mortal or venial, so I assumed it was a mortal sin. I still didn’t go to mass though ,and there really wasn’t a valid reason; I just planned on going to the evening mass and than we had company over and I just didn’t go, but I did want to. Everyone was telling me it’s ok, but I knew I should’ve went. So you’re saying this is not a mortal sin?

 

[HNA444]

(from previous posts of mine)

Regarding thoughts

while Jesus makes it clear that one can sin in ones thoughts…just cause some lustful thought happens does not mean that one sinned…

(and one can have a sufficiently good reason to think about sexual matters…for instance studying moral theology…but care must be taken to avoid things that would be a problem…but that is another question)

What should we do with* unwanted* sexual thoughts or other bad thoughts…thoughts against God etc? Those pesky temptations that can come …even though we are not seeking them etc…

(there are of course some things we should avoid that cause them…and there can be sin if it is something one should reasonably avoid…but often they come uninvited)

First…Relax. Do not worry.

Now are they mortal sins?

For a mortal sin one needs a grave matter …full knowledge AND deliberate consent!!!

A. If you do not want the thought…it the thought displeases you: it can be a sign actually that you did not give consent or do not give full consent.

B. Even if you felt a temptation for the thought – and were drawn to it —but rejected it and maybe even turned to God : again a sign not full consent.

C. But what if one has a tempting thought --say of a sexual nature and even hesitated for a moment…but then rejected it for one did not want to sin? : it can be partial consent perhaps (and thus a venial sin)-- or it may be no sin at all but rather a strong temptation that drew you but then you saw what was happening and turned away.

D. A temptation can even be very strong or the thoughts very often – but this does NOT mean one has consented! so worry not…even it they go on for a long time…

remember --for it to be mortal there must be that deliberate consent!

What to do? on the spiritual side–relax first of all and remember the above.

Next – know that the more one fears the thoughts the more likely they are to come… or said another way --the more a person seeks to avoid the thoughts the more likely he will have a problem with them. (but do not worry about this either!)

for example: for the next 10 seconds try NOT to think of an apple.

tick tock …

tick tock…

Ok what did you think of? Most likely an apple.

So it is best to ignore them and just not consent and then turn your attention to some other good thing…for instance whatever you are doing. Simply do not consent and move on. and do not worry

another point – thoughts can just happen --they are the stuff with which we think…it is up to us to consent and take them further or not. and just because they are REAL VIVID and almost “think themselves” does not mean per se that one has given ANY consent.

they can be annoying…but need cause no actual harm …

(Now difficulties with thoughts can happen to anyone…and has for centuries…nothing new!..but I will note too that “some” have a condition known as OCD (I knew someone with this once…it was a painful experience)…and thus should seek further professional help to work at overcoming it and to live a more peaceful life)

---

Another help…is the distinction between “first thoughts and emotions” (as Baur calls em) what they call the prima of the prima…“the first of the first” (as one of my Professors called em…he was a Dominican)…these are involuntary things that just come up…such are not sins. They can tempt one of course to sin…or one can then proceed to some sin…but they are the stuff of the mind and emotions which “happen to one” …and really the are opportunities for growing in virtue etc as well…

How to deal with these? First of relax…don’t scruple…don’t fear them…to try to swat them all as the come…just simply turn to other things…or the thing you are doing…or to God…(of course do not consent)…but if you are too defensive against them…they may get worse actually…and confuse you more…instead turn to God or again other good things…accept that hey…somethings wild thoughts will come to you…

There is a story from the desert of the early Centuries of the Church where a younger hermit when to an older one with the problems of thoughts happening to him all the time…the older hermit told him to go outside open his cloak and catch the wind.

The younger hermit said such is not possible…

the older hermit replied --neither is it possible to stop all the thoughts that can come to you…your choice is to say “yes” or “no”.

So relax about “unwanted thoughts”…sometimes they just come…you know like unwanted phone calls from politicitians and salepersons etc…but you can always say “no thank you” or just ignore the call and go about your business

What about, lets say , after you had the thought you felt bad and wish you didn;t have the thought… is that rejecting or no?

 

[puzzleannie]

Everyone was telling me it’s ok, but I knew I should’ve went. So you’re saying this is not a mortal sin?

who is everyone? what does it matter what I say? why are you asking 3rd party strangers on the internet about your confession? Why would you assume the act was a mortal sin if the priest did not tell you it was? If you have not been instructed on the difference between mortal and venial sin, ask him to give you a source of instruction now. Mortal sin needs grave matter, full intention, and free will act with no coercion. You had not intent to commit any sin of any kind, so you committed no sin of any kind. Why have you allowed this concern to keep you away from the sacraments for 3 months? that is the issue you must resolve with the help of the priest. It is probably best for you to make an appointment outside confession so he can give you the teaching you did not receive when you prepared for first confession. I am not saying this, I am repeating Church teaching you should have already received. Why do you ask “everyone” about your sins in any case?

 

[Bookcat]

What about, lets say , after you had the thought you felt bad and wish you didn;t have the thought… is that rejecting or no?

Thoughts “happen”. They have to “happen” for there to be a thought.

There is a difference between seeking to have a thought or putting oneself in a say a near occasion, or consenting to a thought —and— some tempting thought just coming to one…

Here is some more helps…

Remember too:

The classic stages of temptation when we are tempted are:

1. Suggestion (the evil is proposed to us in some way) this can be quite attractive …can be thoughts that happen, ideas etc.
2. Pleasure (a kind of automatic pleasure can happen from the suggestion) this pleasure can just happen…one is not “trying to have it” not wanting it…this is just a reaction.

3…then one either consents or does not consent.

Now it can often happen that one begins to “partially consent” but then rejects it and thus does not give full consent.

When one is tempted…

Some signs that one lacked consent or gave only “partial consent” or even no consent:

If even though there was some instinctive pleasure …we do not want it…we are unhappy or horrified about the evil…or struggle to not be overcome …we turn to God in Prayer --these are some signs of no consent (if of course we stay in this stage…and do not later consent)

(For example some thoughts come out of the blue just cause one happened to see an attractive person…and one does not want the thoughts but turns to God in Prayer or is horrified by them and turns to something else etc…no matter how much they come back…if one does not consent at all…there is no sin…but rather possibly growth in virtues)

If one hesitates for a moment but then does not want to sin and so rejects it and does not give full consent (thus a fault against prudence)

If one resists but the resistance is half hearted…one does resist but it is weak or slow…but in the end one rejects it…such would seem to be half consent and thus venial

Of course if one then gives in and gives full consent…then such can be mortal…remember…partial consent or half consent is not full consent…and thus not mortal.

(Based on A Tanquery… he bases things on S. Augustine…but much of this is simply repeated in various places…for it is the basics in judging such)

Hope that helps

 

[HNA444]

who is everyone? what does it matter what I say? why are you asking 3rd party strangers on the internet about your confession? Why would you assume the act was a mortal sin if the priest did not tell you it was? If you have not been instructed on the difference between mortal and venial sin, ask him to give you a source of instruction now. Mortal sin needs grave matter, full intention, and free will act with no coercion. You had not intent to commit any sin of any kind, so you committed no sin of any kind. Why have you allowed this concern to keep you away from the sacraments for 3 months? that is the issue you must resolve with the help of the priest. It is probably best for you to make an appointment outside confession so he can give you the teaching you did not receive when you prepared for first confession. I am not saying this, I am repeating Church teaching you should have already received. Why do you ask “everyone” about your sins in any case?

I was NOT asking them if it was a sin, I was just saying that they were saying it’s ok and to just go next week so i didn;t really want to argue with them and say no im going. that was all. i thought it was wrong, bc during a bible study session the priest was explaining all the good things we should be doing, and that one of those being church; he said that missing mass on Sundays is a mortal sin.

 

[HNA444]

Thoughts “happen”. They have to “happen” for there to be a thought.

There is a difference between seeking to have a thought or putting oneself in a say a near occasion, or consenting to a thought —and— some tempting thought just coming to one…

Here is some more helps…

Remember too:

The classic stages of temptation when we are tempted are:

1. Suggestion (the evil is proposed to us in some way) this can be quite attractive …can be thoughts that happen, ideas etc.
2. Pleasure (a kind of automatic pleasure can happen from the suggestion) this pleasure can just happen…one is not “trying to have it” not wanting it…this is just a reaction.

3…then one either consents or does not consent.

Now it can often happen that one begins to “partially consent” but then rejects it and thus does not give full consent.

When one is tempted…

Some signs that one lacked consent or gave only “partial consent” or even no consent:

If even though there was some instinctive pleasure …we do not want it…we are unhappy or horrified about the evil…or struggle to not be overcome …we turn to God in Prayer --these are some signs of no consent (if of course we stay in this stage…and do not later consent)

(For example some thoughts come out of the blue just cause one happened to see an attractive person…and one does not want the thoughts but turns to God in Prayer or is horrified by them and turns to something else etc…no matter how much they come back…if one does not consent at all…there is no sin…but rather possibly growth in virtues)

If one hesitates for a moment but then does not want to sin and so rejects it and does not give full consent (thus a fault against prudence)

If one resists but the resistance is half hearted…one does resist but it is weak or slow…but in the end one rejects it…such would seem to be half consent and thus venial

Of course if one then gives in and gives full consent…then such can be mortal…remember…partial consent or half consent is not full consent…and thus not mortal.

(Based on A Tanquery… he bases things on S. Augustine…but much of this is simply repeated in various places…for it is the basics in judging such)

Hope that helps

Thank you!! That does help