Valid marrage queation

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jmjilyss1

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My son ( practicing Cathoilc 21 years old) and his girlfriend ( Calvery chapel ) flew out to Las Vegas to be Married.
Can someone explain the Churches teaching on why this is not viewed as a valid marrage is the eyes of the Church.

Thank you
Joe
 
I hope someone can offer you more of the doctrine of the Church regarding your question as I can’t. However, I can offer this…
Adam and Eve were created to be joined as one. When they sinned, their sin separated them. When two are married within the church, the two are joined as one by God as it was intended for Adam and Eve. Not in a "oh that sounds so sweet that we’re one - fluff and fuzzy kindof way…but literally and spiritually joined as one. No one but God has the power, authority, etc. to join two in marriage. It is a spiritual, not legal, union.

The words “and the two became one” are heard often enough that I think people don’t truly understand the meaning anymore (as I was guilty of). I don’t think people truly understand that marriage is a spiritual union that only God can create and no man can undo. Some people think annulments are the catholic answer to divorce but an annulment means that there was no spiritual union of the two (for whatever reason validated by the church).

I don’t know about a situation of being married if both are baptized and married by another religious demonination but I assume that they were married by a justice of the peace? If so, they have a legal marriage as God did not join them together and therefore God does not recognize their union.

I still have a lot to learn of my own faith so if anyone notices an error in the above, feel free to correct me.
 
Catholics are bound by canonical form unless permission is given to the contrary for validity. Any catholic being married outside the prescribed liturgical rites cannot enter into a valid marriage. Such a case is called lack of form in an annulment case.
 
Peace be with You.

My reply to people of faith who wish to be married is this.
What is the meaning or purpose of marriage?
Why get married at all?
Is it because the State says you must do so?
That is fine for people without faith, for the state has it’ own reasons for marriage.(taxes, property, wills abd so forth…
As for people of faith though, the union is a trinity in union with God. Oppeness to children and being co-creators with God is also a condition of marriage for God continues creating.
The man and woman join themselves with God through the Vowes they make. This can only be valid through an authorised dealer ( the Priest who is authorised by the Church). Any unauthorised marriage must get approval from the Church to valid
( any marriage outside of the church must be blessed).
The point is, that there is NO TRUE MARRIAGE WITHOUT GOD and therefore no real need for one.
Couples can live together without marriage, have children, have sex and everything else.
So the question of getting married for the true reasons rely on the couple themselves. A valid marriage is only as good as the couple who make truthfull valid vowes otherwise there realy is no reason to get married anyway.
So if you realy and truly intend to be married then why not do so correctly?
I’m not trying to sound like a know it all or anything, this is just my understanding of true love in union with God and His plans.

Peace Be With You
Ron Rogers
 
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sirknightron:
Peace be with You.

My reply to people of faith who wish to be married is this.
What is the meaning or purpose of marriage?
Why get married at all?
Is it because the State says you must do so?
That is fine for people without faith, for the state has it’ own reasons for marriage.(taxes, property, wills abd so forth…
As for people of faith though, the union is a trinity in union with God. Oppeness to children and being co-creators with God is also a condition of marriage for God continues creating.
The man and woman join themselves with God through the Vowes they make. This can only be valid through an authorised dealer ( the Priest who is authorised by the Church). Any unauthorised marriage must get approval from the Church to valid
( any marriage outside of the church must be blessed).
The point is, that there is NO TRUE MARRIAGE WITHOUT GOD and therefore no real need for one.
Couples can live together without marriage, have children, have sex and everything else.
So the question of getting married for the true reasons rely on the couple themselves. A valid marriage is only as good as the couple who make truthfull valid vowes otherwise there realy is no reason to get married anyway.
So if you realy and truly intend to be married then why not do so correctly?
I’m not trying to sound like a know it all or anything, this is just my understanding of true love in union with God and His plans.

Peace Be With You
Ron Rogers
Excellent post and welcome to the forums!

To add to this train of thought, I hear couples that are against getting married use the argument “We don’t need a piece of paper to tell us we’re married” or something similar. The point is that it isn’t just a piece of paper that couples are seeking in a sacramental marriage. We are seeking God’s blessing and the joining of our lives in the sacrament. To take the sacramental purpose out of marriage is to reduce it to being just a piece of paper in my opinion.
 
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jmjilyss1:
Can someone explain the Churches teaching on why this is not viewed as a valid marrage is the eyes of the Church.
Just to elaborate Mosher’s correct response.

For the baptized, who become part of the body of Christ, matrimony is also a sacrament instituted by Christ who gave the sacraments to the Church, and who gave the authority to the Church to regulate them.

As a way of strengthening our communion in the Lord, the Catholic Church requires a Catholic party, even when marrying a non Catholic Christian or even an non baptized person, to marry “in the presence” of the Church. This means an authorized Catholic priest or deacon and two witnesses and the proper manifestation of marital consent. We call this the “canonical form of marriage.” It is required on the basis of what we understand our authority from Christ to be, and it is a Church law rather than a divine law. With certain exceptions, it is required for the marriage of a Catholic to be valid.

The Church as receiver and guardian of the sacraments has the right to require this for the marriage of a Catholic to be valid. Parts from several canons are relevant.

Canon 840: The sacraments of the New Testament were instituted by Christ the Lord and entrusted to the Church. As actions of Christ and the Church, they are signs and means which express and strengthen faith, render worship to God, and effect the sanctification of humanity, and thus contribute in the greatest way to establish, strengthen and manifest ecclesial communion . . .

Canon 841: Since the sacraments are the same for the whole Church and pertain to the divine deposit, it is only for the supreme authority of the Church alone to approve or define the requirements for their validity . . .

Canon 1059:Even if only one party is Catholic, the marriage of Catholics is regulated not only by divine law but also by canon law . . .

Canon 1108:§1. Only those marriages are valid which are contracted in the presence of the local ordinary or the pastor or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who assist, and in the presence of two witnesses, according to the rules expressed in the following canons, with due regard for the exceptions mentioned . . . [in other canons which are then named. This canon is merely a Church law which binds those who have been baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it as canon 11 provides. ]
 
actually* the church does somewhat view it as a valid marriage, because if the couple were to get divorced, then they would be unable to remarry in the catholic church. if the marriage were totally unrecognized, then anyone divorcing from a completely civil marriage would be free to remarry without annulment in the church. am i getting that right?

my brother was married by a naval captain. my parents werent so happy, but as with all the kids, we did as we pleased. hence, a captain of the 2nd battle group married my brother and his wife in front of 300 marines. far as i know, they went to mass and attended church regularly before he shipped out. i havent heard of any problems with their marriage not being recognized.*
 
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BioCatholic:
actually* the church does somewhat view it as a valid marriage, because if the couple were to get divorced, then they would be unable to remarry in the catholic church. if the marriage were totally unrecognized, then anyone divorcing from a completely civil marriage would be free to remarry without annulment in the church. am i getting that right?

my brother was married by a naval captain. my parents werent so happy, but as with all the kids, we did as we pleased. hence, a captain of the 2nd battle group married my brother and his wife in front of 300 marines. far as i know, they went to mass and attended church regularly before he shipped out. i havent heard of any problems with their marriage not being recognized.*No, such a marriage when it involves a Catholic does not enjoy the favor of law. Non Catholics, of course, are not bound to our form of marriage for validity. So if they divorce, a formal process is required to establish their freedom to marry.

A decree of nullity following a marriage validity trial is not necessary to establish the freedom of the parties in such a lack of form case (which must involve at least one Catholic). But something has to be done to be certain, and so there must be some process…

The Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts has decreed that the normal prenuptial investigation suffices in the case of a lack of form. In all cases, no one can witness a wedding without certainty it will be valid and legal. So for the sake of safety, most dioceses require lack of form marriages to be run past the desk of the tribunal or even another office of the chancery. Some kind of decree is then given to assure the priest or deacon and the party of the freedom to marry. A priest *could * even witness a subsequent marriage for validity (other things being correct) without that but he would have acted illegally and would probably be called in to chat with the bishop.

Your brother and his wife may have received a dispensation from the canonical form of marriage, or the situation may have presented a case of the extraordinary form of marriage in which a qualified priest or deacon is not available to witness a wedding. It is, of course, possible neither happened, and consequently, they are mistaken that the ceremony constituted the valid exchange of marital consent. However, no body would go back to investigate that unless your brother or wife brought the question to a tribunal.

The requirement of a civil divorce before an annulment is given is done, in part, so the Church does not run into Church-State problems. And if we think about it, if a couple has not civilly divorced, there is a greater possibility of encouraging reconciliation, to which we are obliged before proceeding with a nullity trial when that is the case.

But when two qualified (not bound by an impediment of divine law) non Catholics marry, no form is required for validity (apart from the Eastern orthodox whose own law imposes a form, the blessing by a priest). Consequently if they divorce and then one or both wish marriage to others in the Catholic Church, a canonical investigation by a tribunal and a decree of nullity is required before that can happen.
 
To every one that replied,

Thank you, My son ended up getting married by a Baptist minster in Las Vegas, thinking that it would ease my concerns. It did not, I will use all your comments, suggestions, & thoughts.
I will talk with him when he comes back and all your prayers will be appreciated.

Thank you
Joe
267 688 5146
 
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