Valid marriage

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StCsDavid

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In marriage, the couple is the minister of the sacrament. If a Catholic couple comes to the sacrament of marriage, and one or both are in a state of mortal sin, can they really experience a valid sacrament? I ask this as I’m compiling a list of reasons why couples shouldn’t cohabitate before marriage as part of class I’m helping to teach. I have all the usual suspects, but this notion popped into my head and I’m wondering if there’s merit to the idea or am I reaching.
 
no one can approach the sacraments unless properly disposed and in the state of sanctifying grace, this holds for communion, confirmation and Holy orders as well. If the person is not in the state of grace, no sacramental grace is received until they return again, through confession (or anointing of the sick) to the state of grace. The sacrament itself is valid, but its benefits and graces are barred to the individual as long as the barrier of mortal sin remains. To approach these sacraments in the state of mortal sin is also the sin of sacrilege, which must also be confessed and absolved.
 
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StCsDavid:
In marriage, the couple is the minister of the sacrament. If a Catholic couple comes to the sacrament of marriage, and one or both are in a state of mortal sin, can they really experience a valid sacrament? I ask this as I’m compiling a list of reasons why couples shouldn’t cohabitate before marriage as part of class I’m helping to teach. I have all the usual suspects, but this notion popped into my head and I’m wondering if there’s merit to the idea or am I reaching.
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The couple confer the Sacrament on each other. The person in a state of sin, validly confers the Sacrament on the other because the state of the minister is not a factor with the Sacraments. The one in a state of Grace receives the Sacrament of Marriage and the Sacramental Grace associated with it. The one who is in a State of Grace confers the Sacrament on the other who is not in a State of Grace. The one not in a State of Grace receives the Sacrament but the Sacramental Grace is blocked until they go to Reconciliation at which time it is received.
 
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asquared:
no one can approach the sacraments unless properly disposed and in the state of sanctifying grace, this holds for communion, confirmation and Holy orders as well. If the person is not in the state of grace, no sacramental grace is received until they return again, through confession (or anointing of the sick) to the state of grace. The sacrament itself is valid, but its benefits and graces are barred to the individual as long as the barrier of mortal sin remains. To approach these sacraments in the state of mortal sin is also the sin of sacrilege, which must also be confessed and absolved.
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I respectfully disagree. I’m not trying to start a debate here, simply to point out a subtle difference in the teaching of the church.

“Sacraments give the recipient a special grace necessary to fulfill the mission of that particular sacrament…sacraments give grace independent of the spiritual state of the recipient. For example, a groom who is in the state of mortal sin when he gets married is still validly married. On the other hand, a groom who has a mortal sin on his soul gets no grace form the blessing the priest gives to the newly married couple.” (Catholoicism for Dummies pr. 85-86)

Yes, the marriage would still be valid even if performed in hte state of mortal sin. Of course it would not be advised to take communion in this state, and the ideal way to go about this would be to go to confession first and have the sins removed, but none the less, the marriage would be valid although maybe not licit.
 
Thanks for your replies. So one could say that getting married in a state of mortal sin would be a sin in iteself as the person in such a state brings sacrilege to the sacrament?

There are a couple of couples I know will be attending this class that are cohabitating right now, and I want to plant some good seeds for them to start really thinking about their situation now, and what needs to change before they approach the sacrament.
 
Just a clarification…being married in a state of mortal sin is not a mortal sin, but the effecacious graces coming from marriage are limited as a result of your disposition.

receiving the eucharist in a state of mortal sin IS a mortal sin however. Nowhere in the teachings of the Church does it state that the Sacrament of matrimony is a mortal sin if received in a state of mortal sin. If anyone tries to tell you differently, then I would demand they point to either the specific paragraph in the Catechism or the specific Church Document where they found the information, because to the best of my knowledge (which I admit to be limited) that is not the official stance and teaching of the Catholic Church.
 
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joshua_b:
Just a clarification…being married in a state of mortal sin is not a mortal sin, but the effecacious graces coming from marriage are limited as a result of your disposition.

receiving the eucharist in a state of mortal sin IS a mortal sin however. Nowhere in the teachings of the Church does it state that the Sacrament of matrimony is a mortal sin if received in a state of mortal sin. If anyone tries to tell you differently, then I would demand they point to either the specific paragraph in the Catechism or the specific Church Document where they found the information, because to the best of my knowledge (which I admit to be limited) that is not the official stance and teaching of the Catholic Church.
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Intentionally and knowingly presenting yourself for the reception of ANY Sacrament in a state of Mortal sin is another mortal sin. The only Sacraments that can be received in a state of mortal sin are Reconciliation and if unable to confess the Sacrament of Anoitning of the Sick. Adult Baptism requires repentence before Baptism.
 
If this is true (and I’m not arguing it isn’t) could you please point me in the direction of any resources where i could verify that…Catechism, Code of Canon Law, any papal encyclical, etc…for my own reference. I admit readily to my knowledge of the faith being limited, especially in comparison to someone living ordained life, but I am never afraid to learn more.
 
Here is my situation: I am getting married to my GF who has been with me for 5 years (I just bought the engagement ring). She is BAPTIST and I am RC. She believes in NO SACRAMENTS at all or even the RCC. She is simply getting married in the place I want. I think as long as my soul is clear that is all that matters because I am RC.
 
The difficulties of mixed marriage must not be underestimated. Differences about faith and the very notion of marriage but also different religious mentalities, can become sources of tension in marriage, especially as regards the education of children. The temptation to religious indifference can then arise (Catechism of the Catholic Church, #1634).
http://www.familyministries.org/www.inthespiritofcana.org/2.6.10.htm

To read more about the Church’s stand on inter-religious marriages, I suggest you check on the above link.
 
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joshua_b:
I respectfully disagree. I’m not trying to start a debate here, simply to point out a subtle difference in the teaching of the church.

“Sacraments give the recipient a special grace necessary to fulfill the mission of that particular sacrament…sacraments give grace independent of the spiritual state of the recipient. For example, a groom who is in the state of mortal sin when he gets married is still validly married. On the other hand, a groom who has a mortal sin on his soul gets no grace form the blessing the priest gives to the newly married couple.” (Catholoicism for Dummies pr. 85-86)
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As far as I’ve read, Catholicism for Dummies is not an accurate or good resource for learning about Catholicism.

oldforum.catholic.org/discussion/messages/41/814326.html?1094314667
 
I respectfully disagree with you 3rd-parent. I think it covers a broad range of topics, in a clear and concise, easy to understand manner. It has both the “impramateur” and “nihil obstat”, and I have yet to find any error contained within it. It is no where near as detailed as the Catechism or Code of Canon Law, so of course isn’ t as thorough as those writings, but just because it isn’t exhaustively “complete” doesn’t mean its no good. Now if you know of any specific errors or can give some reasoning behind why it “isn’t that good” then by all means please share and I will listen with an open mind.
 
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jay29:
Here is my situation: I am getting married to my GF who has been with me for 5 years (I just bought the engagement ring). She is BAPTIST and I am RC. She believes in NO SACRAMENTS at all or even the RCC. She is simply getting married in the place I want. I think as long as my soul is clear that is all that matters because I am RC.
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In order for your marriage to be valid in the eyes of the Church, three conditions must exist. You must both give consent to enter the union of your own free will, you must give your consent in the light of the knowledge that your commitment to each other and your vocation is life-long and permanent, you must both be open to the possibility that your marriage will bring forth children, and you, being Roman Catholic, are bound by Canonical form unless given a dispensation from Canonical form by the Bishop of your dioscese. (ok, that was four, I can’t count).

stbruno is right, the Church warns against the dangers of interreligious marriages, and your priest should address this with you and your fiancee during your pre-Cana period of preparation, but one or the other party does not have to “believe” in the sacrament for the sacrament to be effected.
 
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the-3rd-parent:
As far as I’ve read, Catholicism for Dummies is not an accurate or good resource for learning about Catholicism.

oldforum.catholic.org/discussion/messages/41/814326.html?1094314667
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I think you are confusing Catholicism for Dummies with The Idiot’s Guide to Catholicism . As someone pointed out above, the Dummies book has the Imprimater and Nihil Obstat, which mean that it is free ffrom error. It is written by 2 faithful Catholic priests, both of whom have appeared on EWTN. The Idiot’s book is apparently full of error.

Peace,
Linda
 
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joshua_b:
In order for your marriage to be valid in the eyes of the Church, three conditions must exist. You must both give consent to enter the union of your own free will, you must give your consent in the light of the knowledge that your commitment to each other and your vocation is life-long and permanent, you must both be open to the possibility that your marriage will bring forth children, and you, being Roman Catholic, are bound by Canonical form unless given a dispensation from Canonical form by the Bishop of your diocese. (ok, that was four, I can’t count).
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Joshua,

No disagreement with that, but just a clarification or expansion.

Actually in reading canon 1057§1, we usually speak of three things but in a different way:
  • Code: 
    consent (see note on canon 1057 §2 below),
  • Code: 
    its legal manifestation (which normally includes canonical form for Catholics), and
  • parties who are qualified by law (free from impediments of divine law in all marriages, and dispensed from ecclesiastical impediments if a Catholic marriage).
A time honored mnemonic at the ranch is FIC: form, impediments, consent.

Canon 1057 §2 tells us what that consent is: “Matrimonial consent is an act of the will by which a man and a woman mutually give and accept each other, through an irrevocable covenant in order to establish marriage.”

This internal consent to those things presumed by the law itself when it is manifested externally (c. 1101 §1).

There are different ways of approaching how to make a list of the constituents of marriage which are necessarily contained in consent, and some traditional ways for canonists to do that.
*
Certainly though, when one consents to marriage, by its nature the consent would include those things you mention. *But we would be remiss not to mention also exclusivity and fidelity.
 
Br. Rich SFO:
The only Sacraments that can be received in a state of mortal sin are Reconciliation and if unable to confess the Sacrament of Anointing of the Sick. Adult Baptism requires repentence before Baptism.
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I would probably disagree with you on your comment about Baptism. The only requirement for adult baptism is a desire to recieve the sacrament.

Many people recieve the sacrament without repentance because they are poorly catechised and have no knowledge of what sins they are committing.

Of course, I am unsure what you mean by ‘repentance’.
 
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Evan:
Many people recieve the sacrament without repentance because they are poorly catechised and have no knowledge of what sins they are committing.

Of course, I am unsure what you mean by ‘repentance’.
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Then they should not be receiving the Sacrament of Baptism, except of course in danger of death.

If one receives Baptism without any acknowledgement of sin or repentence the Sacrament is validly and effectively received but the effect of the Grace is hindered because of the disposition of the person receiving it.
 
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