Valid Stole?

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Unfortunately, validity and liceity are not dependent on good taste. 😦
 
Lepanto said:
Unfortunately, validity and liceity are not dependent on good taste. 😦
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'Taint in any liturgical colour that I can see, or at least if it is it ain’t clear WHICH liturgical colour.

Doesn’t a priest’s stole have to be in the liturgical colour of the season (unless he’s celebrating a Memorial service or ministering Reconciliation or something - in which case it’d be purple)
 
If he is the celebrant, then he needs to wear a chasuble. Unless one is a concelebrant, the celebrant should be wearing the complete set of vestments.

As for the stole itself, I have seen everything from Noah’s ark to bad renditions of saints. This one takes the cake.
 
LilyM said:
'Taint in any liturgical colour that I can see, or at least if it is it ain’t clear WHICH liturgical colour.
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I was going to say, I think he has a bit of every liturgical color under the sun!

😛
 
benedictgal said:
If he is the celebrant, then he needs to wear a chasuble. Unless one is a concelebrant, the celebrant should be wearing the complete set of vestments.

As for the stole itself, I have seen everything from Noah’s ark to bad renditions of saints. This one takes the cake.
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Really? I’ve never seen a stole with any sort of a picture or design on it. I didn’t know those were permitted. Interesting, interesting…
 
benedictgal said:
As for the stole itself, I have seen everything from Noah’s ark to bad renditions of saints. This one takes the cake.
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just the mental picture of this made me laugh, some sort of contest, with a bunch of priests lined up showing of their worst stoles
 
That’s a stole, eh? Looks like a cheap and very badly done Hermes knock-off scarf. They find such creative uses for silk-screening and tie-dying, etc, (not to mention burlap & felt, etc), don’t they?
 
SenorSalsa said:
just the mental picture of this made me laugh, some sort of contest, with a bunch of priests lined up showing of their worst stoles
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malphono said:
That’s a stole, eh? Looks like a cheap and very badly done Hermes knock-off scarf. They find such creative uses for silk-screening and tie-dying, etc, (not to mention burlap & felt, etc), don’t they?
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Let’s be fair to the poor guy, most priests don’t have total control over their vestments.

Some parishioner or relative probably gave this to him and would be mortally offended if he never wore it or something.
 
JPUSC said:
http://media.thedaily.com.au/img/photos/2008/12/16/dobson_500x500_t350.jpg

Is the stole pictured here valid? I didn’t know it could have pictures like that. It’s sort of like those picture ties.

thedaily.com.au/news/2008/dec/16/drunks-stop-christmas-midnight-mass/
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I don’t think the word “valid” would be the relevant word here. Illicit, yes. Vestments must be in liturgical colors, but valid (or invalid) just isn’t a word that is applied to vestments.

It also depends on the circumstances; meaning that if he’s just posing for a photo, that’s one thing, but if he’s saying Mass (or about to) dressed like that, the situation is even more illicit.
 
LilyM said:
Doesn’t a priest’s stole have to be in the liturgical colour of the season (unless he’s celebrating a Memorial service or ministering Reconciliation or something - in which case it’d be purple)
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FrDavid96 said:
I don’t think the word “valid” would be the relevant word here. Illicit, yes. Vestments must be in liturgical colors, but valid (or invalid) just isn’t a word that is applied to vestments.
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I’m not even sure *licity *applies, as long as the sacred minister is wearing something that passes muster with the Conference of Bishops as a stole?

GIRM 346 point (g) says:
On more solemn days, sacred vestments may be used that are festive, that is, more precious, even if not of the color of the day.
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Unfrtunately, without further expounding on the meaning of *precious *the questionable stole may qualify. As Dana Carvey’s “Church Lady” might say:

“Isn’t that precious…”

:rolleyes:
tee
 
tee_eff_em said:
I’m not even sure *licity *applies, as long as the sacred minister is wearing something that passes muster with the Conference of Bishops as a stole?

GIRM 346 point (g) says:

Unfrtunately, without further expounding on the meaning of *precious *the questionable stole may qualify. As Dana Carvey’s “Church Lady” might say:

"Isn’t that precious…"

:rolleyes:
tee
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“Licit” applies here. Vestments cannot be in whatever color or pattern one chooses. To be licit they must be in a proper liturgical color. Crosses, trim, etc. etc. can be added but the vestment or the piece of it, like the stole, must still be in a proper color.

A stole doesn’t “pass muster” simply by its shape, but also by the color.

Even the “more festive” vestments must still be in some proper color.
 
Wow…that looks dreadful! It looks like the felt story board I had when I was a kid. If you don’t know what that is- it was a board with felt on it that you’d set up like a posterboard. You’d stick felt cutouts of land, trees, farm animals, machinery, and other stuff on it to make some sort of landscape scene. The toy was a lot of fun, but I wouldn’t want to see priests wearing vestments that look like it.
 
FrDavid96 said:
“Licit” applies here. Vestments cannot be in whatever color or pattern one chooses. To be licit they must be in a proper liturgical color. Crosses, trim, etc. etc. can be added but the vestment or the piece of it, like the stole, must still be in a proper color.

A stole doesn’t “pass muster” simply by its shape, but also by the color.

Even the “more festive” vestments must still be in some proper color.
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Thanks, Fr. The GIRM does not seem to use very forceful language in this section, so it is difficult to tell.

tee
 
Reckon he was a 60s hippie in his younger days? Prolly drives one of those VW bus things too.
 
I think this whole thread is pretty sad. Sure, that stole may not be to our tastes, and may raise liturgical issues, but had anyone clicked on the accompanying link, you would have seen that this priest serves in a parish on the coast of Australia, in a parish that has been so disturbed by drunks and other security problems that he has had to cancel the Christmas midnight Mass for security & safety reasons.

So maybe we could all just go back to debating the real crises affecting our church - oh, things like hand-holding during the Our Father and the over-use of EMHC’s - and cut this man, who has given his life to the Church, a little slack, and drop the ad hominem slurs too (“Reckon he was a 60s hippie in his younger days?”).

Merry Christmas.
 
Mattapoisett64 said:
I think this whole thread is pretty sad. Sure, that stole may not be to our tastes, and may raise liturgical issues, but had anyone clicked on the accompanying link, you would have seen that this priest serves in a parish on the coast of Australia, in a parish that has been so disturbed by drunks and other security problems that he has had to cancel the Christmas midnight Mass for security & safety reasons.

So maybe we could all just go back to debating the real crises affecting our church - oh, things like hand-holding during the Our Father and the over-use of EMHC’s - and cut this man, who has given his life to the Church, a little slack, and drop the ad hominem slurs too (“Reckon he was a 60s hippie in his younger days?”).

Merry Christmas.
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Merry Christmas 🙂

Sorry, but I frankly do not see what drunks and security issues have to do with what is an absolutely hideous stole. Nor I do see why you’re so upset with a little levity in this thread.
 
malphono said:
Merry Christmas 🙂

Sorry, but I frankly do not see what drunks and security issues have to do with what is an absolutely hideous stole. Nor I do see why you’re so upset with a little levity in this thread.
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Levity is on thing, but a direct attack on the priest is wrong (the hippy comment).

Yes I agree though, that the stole is hideous and out of place. As has been said the stole should be a proper liturgical color. Stoles like this is why some priests insist on wearing the stole on top of the chausible rather than underneath it were it belongs.

I also must add, this could be a symptom of the greater problems within our Church. If the priest disregards obedience to the Church in this matter then why should others follow it in other matters?
 
tee_eff_em said:
Thanks, Fr. The GIRM does not seem to use very forceful language in this section, so it is difficult to tell.

tee
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tee,
The GIRM is actually very “forceful” in saying that only certain colors may be used. That’s what it has to say about color, here’s the more general statement about vestments:
  1. In addition to the traditional materials, natural fabrics proper to each region may be used for making sacred vestments; artificial fabrics that are in keeping with the dignity of the sacred action and the person wearing them may also be used. The Conference of Bishops will be the judge in this matter.
  2. It is fitting that the beauty and nobility of each vestment derive not from abundance of overly lavish ornamentation, but rather from the material that is used and from the design. Ornamentation on vestments should, moreover, consist of figures, that is, of images or symbols, that evoke sacred use, avoiding thereby anything unbecoming.
 
I have a “precious” stole. It was my grandfather’s; he was a Congregational minister. It may not have been his, but one of many things that he collected.

It’s purple satin on the inside, and the outside is heavily embroidered, with metallic threads and bullion, and beads that may or may not be pearls. Definitely precious, especially to me. He baptized me when I was 4 months old, and I have no doubt that the graces I received resulted in my (finally) joining the Church!

The pictured stole looks to me as if it is woven tapestry. We can’t see whether the other side of it is a liturgical color. Who knows, maybe it’s not a stole at all, but a scarf!

So I agree with the poster who said to cut Father a break. 😉

God bless us and all the clergy,

Ruthie
 
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