Validity of Confession

[thomasf]

I would think that when it comes to mortal sins, if you are going to confession regularly, you’re not exactly going to wrack up a high number of mortal sins between confession. I don’t know about other people, but when something occurs that is a mortal sin, I know it and I’m going to high tail it to confession asap to get right with the Big Guy. And if you know it’s a mortal sin and that you have to get to confession, I think it’s kind of the point of contrition to be resolved to avoid that sin going forward. Imo, if you find yourself in a state of mortal sin and you know it, it’s not like you should be just going crazy trying to wrack up sins before you hit the confessional while you have the chance.

I guess it would be different if you haven’t been to confession in a while.

 

[Spirithound]

So, there is no need for me to re-confess those sins? Why is that? Canon Law says that I am “obliged” to confess grave sins in kind and number. Sorry, I can’t stop worrying about it!

The absolution was valid because you did not intentionally withhold your sins. It was not your intention to abuse the sacrament. It seems to me that saying the number is somehow “less important” than naming the sin (but as you have noted, both are mandated). Consider, if I willfully withhold from the priest that I looked at pornography, I am not sorry for that sin, and it cannot be forgiven (yet), and so the entire confession is invalid. But, if I confess that I entertained lustful thoughts, but I do not say that I did this 5 times, am I only sorry for one of those times? No, clearly I am sorry for all of them, otherwise, which of them might I be considered to have been confessing?

It is my opinion that confessing the number is to detect patterns of sin and to better establish an appropriate penance.
(but of course I am willing to defer to someone with actual training in Canon Law and/or Sacramental Theology

I would maintain that willfully withholding the number would invalidate the confession, but I am of the opinion that you did not do that.

 

[Bookcat]

The absolution was valid because you did not intentionally withhold your sins. It was not your intention to abuse the sacrament. It seems to me that saying the number is somehow “less important” than naming the sin (but as you have noted, both are mandated). Consider, if I willfully withhold from the priest that I looked at pornography, I am not sorry for that sin, and it cannot be forgiven (yet), and so the entire confession is invalid. But, if I confess that I entertained lustful thoughts, but I do not say that I did this 5 times, am I only sorry for one of those times? No, clearly I am sorry for all of them, otherwise, which of them might I be considered to have been confessing?

It is my opinion that confessing the number is to detect patterns of sin and to better establish an appropriate penance.
(but of course I am willing to defer to someone with actual training in Canon Law and/or Sacramental Theology

I would maintain that willfully withholding the number would invalidate the confession, but I am of the opinion that you did not do that.

Since we are obliged to confess in number and in kind (very explicitly in Canon Law etc) …if I commit 5 murders…and go in and intentionally reduce it to say 2 murders or just “murder” …that would be hiding mortal sins that I am conscious of. And thus would invalidate the confession…and would be lying about a grave matter in confession!

The number is not just to give the Priest an idea of things…for penance etc.

It is different when we have to approximate cause we do not know the number…or if we forget…or maybe we honestly did not know that one had to say how many murders and not know we needed to find out…or we get nervous …and intending to make an honest and complete confession of all mortal sins…we do not say things as we planned or we make a mistake in the number and realize later …such does not invalidate things.

 

[Bookcat]

Since we are obliged to confess in number and in kind (very explicitly in Canon Law etc) …if I commit 5 murders…and go in and intentionally reduce it to say 2 murders or just “murder” …that would be hiding mortal sins that I am conscious of. And thus would invalidate the confession…and would be lying about a grave matter in confession!

The number is not just to give the Priest an idea of things…for penance etc.

It is different when we have to approximate cause we do not know the number…or if we forget…or maybe we honestly did not know that one had to say how many murders and not know we needed to find out…or we get nervous …and intending to make an honest and complete confession of all mortal sins…we do not say things as we planned or we make a mistake in the number and realize later …such does not invalidate things.

by this line : “and intending to make an honest and complete confession of all mortal sins…we do not say things as we planned” I am not meaning that then does not confess them in number…but just that some with scruples will scruple about how they planned to say something…even though they did say things fine.

 

[Spirithound]

Since we are obliged to confess in number and in kind (very explicitly in Canon Law etc) …if I commit 5 murders…and go in and intentionally reduce it to say 2 murders or just “murder” …that would be hiding mortal sins that I am conscious of. And thus would invalidate the confession…and would be lying about a grave matter in confession!

The number is not just to give the Priest an idea of things…for penance etc.

Thank you for the correction. I agree that consciously hiding mortal sins is a further mortal sin. I am still not convinced that the OP’s confession was invalid due to the priest’s instruction not to confess number.

 

[Bookcat]

Thank you for the correction. I agree that consciously hiding mortal sins is a further mortal sin. I am still not convinced that the OP’s confession was invalid due to the priest’s instruction not to confess number.

One is obliged to confess all ones mortal sins in number and kind (etc as noted above).

To have committed 5 murders and to conceal 3 of them …is to make a bad and invalid confession

(As to the OP…that can be a different and odd thing…I have not said per se that his confession was invalid…but I have already commented at length there)

 

[fbl9]

snip…
It is my opinion that confessing the number is to detect patterns of sin and to better establish an appropriate penance.
(but of course I am willing to defer to someone with actual training in Canon Law and/or Sacramental Theology

I would maintain that willfully withholding the number would invalidate the confession, but I am of the opinion that you did not do that.

Sometime i just guess at the number,sometimes i am low on the number. Since deliberately lowballing the number invalidates the confession. Then i wonder “am i really repentant” did i do it on purpose no/yes i don’t know.

 

[Bookcat]

Sometime i just guess at the number,sometimes i am low on the number. Since deliberately lowballing the number invalidates the confession. Then i wonder “am i really repentant” did i do it on purpose no/yes i don’t know.

Something to be addressed in confession with ones confessor…

If one is approximating as one can (sometimes one has to say “I guess around”) and seeking thus to make an honest confession …that is different than deliberately giving a lower number than one actually sinned mortally.

One has to also avoid scruples here.