Validly Baptised Christian on RCIA told that he needed a Conditional Baptism

  • Thread starter Thread starter dcbrit2003
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
FrDavid96 said:
No. You cannot appeal from Rome to the Archbishop*. At this point in time, there is nothing to appeal because the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has not yet made a decision.

At this point, there is nothing to do but await the CDF’s decision on this. If you try to “appeal” this to any other authority, it will make matters much worse.

There is only one option: wait for the CDF’s decision.
  • in addition to the fact that one cannot appeal to a lower authority from a decision made by higher authority, appealing to the archbishop is not how things work. It might seem as if the archbishop can overturn the bishop (and sometimes, in marriage cases, that is somewhat true), but in a matter such as this, the archbishop does not have authority to overturn the bishop nor to become involved.
Click to expand...
The issue ( as far as I am aware ) has not been refered to the CDF yet. It was explained to me a month ago by the Chancellor that he would write to the Community Church, with the likely outcome that the issue would be refered to the CDF for a final decision. No one from the Diocese in question has subsequently been in touch with the Community Church

Therefore, the investigation has not even begun yet. It seems to me ( who is ignorant of the usual timescales involved in these things ) that I am being ignored (hence the question about bringing this to a higher authority within the church ), or at least that is what it feels like.

It would be useful if someone knowledgable ( such as yourself Fr David ) could give me some kind of outline about how long this kind of thing takes
 
felsguy said:
I can’t speak for God but:

-the Catholic Church would consider it improper for someone to undergo the rite of Baptism, i.e the pouring of water and the saying of the Trinitarian and perhaps the additional prayers and actions, a second time 1) unless there is some doubt that the person was validly baptized the first time and 2) unless the second rite is performed conditionally,” i.e. with the addition of the phrase “if you have not been baptized before” at the beginning of the formula. Otherwise it would be contrary to the Church’s teaching that the sacrament of Baptism can only be received once.

-other churches would consider it offensive as a denial that a person baptized in their tradition including water, the Trinitarian formula, and the proper intention was validly baptized.

-the OP would consider it objectionable, even if done conditionally, for personal reasons he has expressed in his previous posts here.
Click to expand...
👍 yup
 
dcbrit2003 said:
The issue ( as far as I am aware ) has not been refered to the CDF yet. It was explained to me a month ago by the Chancellor that he would write to the Community Church, with the likely outcome that the issue would be refered to the CDF for a final decision. No one from the Diocese in question has subsequently been in touch with the Community Church

Therefore, the investigation has not even begun yet. It seems to me ( who is ignorant of the usual timescales involved in these things ) that I am being ignored (hence the question about bringing this to a higher authority within the church ), or at least that is what it feels like.

It would be useful if someone knowledgable ( such as yourself Fr David ) could give me some kind of outline about how long this kind of thing takes
Click to expand...
You seem to be assuming that nothing is being done because you are presuming that the chancellor would be writing to your prior pastor. That may, or may not be to whom he writes, depending on what it is that he needs to know.

You are also presuming this is a simple issue. It may or may not be. As noted elsewhere, this type of issue is not quickly resolved in some circumstances. the fact that you do not see complexity does not mean there is no complexity.

I don’t know that the chancellor himself could give you a time line, but this is likely not going to be resolved in weeks, or necessarily a few months.
 
Update:

Ok, so I’ve had an e-mail reply from the Chancellor saying that he is awaiting a reply to a letter sent to the Community Church before sending me a Pro Forma and then sending off a dossier to the CDF
 
Update:

I have been told by the Chancellor of the Diocese that he has received a reply from the Community Church and a Pro Forma will be sent out to me during July

Mark
 
Just to let everyone know that I have decided to accept the request for a Conditional Baptism. My relationship with Jesus is more important than my personal principles so I should be fully received into the Catholic Church at the end of September

Mark
 
I know this was a tough decision for you, dcbrit2003. Thanks for sharing your journey with us. Although I’m not Catholic, I respect and support your decision. Thank you for allowing us to learn more about the process through your personal experience.

Editorial comment:
This requirement does not nullify in any way your previous walk with Christ up until now.
Hopefully, your walk will now be even more enhanced as you go forward. May God bless you and your family always.
 
Tommy999 said:
I know this was a tough decision for you, dcbrit2003. Thanks for sharing your journey with us. Although I’m not Catholic, I respect and support your decision. Thank you for allowing us to learn more about the process through your personal experience.

Editorial comment:
This requirement does not nullify in any way your previous walk with Christ up until now.
Hopefully, your walk will now be even more enhanced as you go forward. May God bless you and your family always.
Click to expand...
My sentiments exactly. I pray there are no other bumps in your road. Please look and see if you can help others avoid the same pitfalls that were opened for you. No last minutes ‘surprises’.
 
Hello dcbrit.

Congratulations. Glad you jumped off the fence on the right side. God bless you for all you had to go through. The Church will be a better place for having you in it.

Glenda
 
dcbrit2003 said:
Just to let everyone know that I have decided to accept the request for a Conditional Baptism. My relationship with Jesus is more important than my personal principles so I should be fully received into the Catholic Church at the end of September

Mark
Click to expand...
Thanks for the update, Mark. I was just thinking about you the other day and wondering where you were at with things. May God bless you abundantly!
 
dcbrit2003 said:
Just to let everyone know that I have decided to accept the request for a Conditional Baptism. My relationship with Jesus is more important than my personal principles so I should be fully received into the Catholic Church at the end of September

Mark
Click to expand...
Welcome home!

It will be an exciting time for you when you are Confirmed and receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and also your first Eucharist, where you will come into full physical contact with our Creator!

God bless!
 
dcbrit2003 said:
Just to let everyone know that I have decided to accept the request for a Conditional Baptism. My relationship with Jesus is more important than my personal principles so I should be fully received into the Catholic Church at the end of September

Mark
Click to expand...
That’s great to hear! 🙂
 
I wrote this before I saw that the OP decided to accept conditional baptism. However, I still wanted to post the following.

I am a convert from the Presbyterian Church and went through private instruction rather than RCIA, mostly because many of the RCIAs were REALLY bad at that time. For instance, a friend went through one where the people teaching didn’t know how many sacraments there were nor had any idea of what they were when asked to name them. I found a very holy and orthodox older priest who I knew could handle my incessant questions and hotheadedness 😉 . I specifically requested and received conditional baptism, and I really wish the church would return to the practice instead of assuming most baptisms are valid. In my case, I watched the minister who baptize me as an infant baptize many others throughout the years, and he a)did not pour the water while saying the words and b) the rite explicitly denied baptismal regeneration. Presbyterians in general don’t believe in it. Yet, the Catholic Church normally views Presbyterian baptisms as valid. Was my first baptism valid? I don’t know, but I didn’t want to take a chance. Yes, there is baptism of desire, but from what I can understand it is not sufficient to make the soul capable of receiving confirmation and other sacraments.

A few years after I entered the Church, two friends converted from the Church of Christ and went through RCIA at two different parishes. One was told that the Catholic Church recognized baptisms from that denomination, and the other was told It did not. I think that probably the priest or RCIA leader got confused as there are at least two Christian bodies known as the “Church of Christ.” I think it is also a bad idea that we assume just because a denomination generally does a valid baptism that they always do. If baptism is seen as merely symbolic (as with the Presbyterians), it is likely that the way it is done will not seem to matter. I also think of the craziness that now prevails in some circles of baptizing in “The Name of the Creator, the Redeemer, and the Sanctifier.”

There is no insult in receiving a conditional baptism. If anything, it shows concern for your spiritual health.

Just some random thoughts from a weird Catholic 😉
 
Having post the above, the below will come as a bit of a shock ( at least it does to me ) :

Dear Parish Priest,

Having given it some thought, I have decided not to proceed with reception into the Catholic Church. The straw that broke the camel’s back being the mis-handling of the request from my mother for an alternative date of my reception ( see e-mail attachment ) in the Catholic Church. Having gone through the ordeal of having the validity of my Baptism questioned, something I found very spiritually destructive, and now the issue of the date of my reception. Emotionally, the best way of describing how I feel is…well, just tired. I’m tired of the whole process and I don’t want to go on any further.

Therefore, I will be finding another ( Anglican ) church to go to when i’m back in September. Also, it is my wish that I not be contacted for whatever reason by anyone from your Parish. I wish to be left in peace.

Mark

…so, that concludes this sorry episode then. If I had know that my ( valid ) Baptism would be questioned, without any evidence to the contrary being presented to me at anytime, I would not have darkened the door of the RCIA course. The only reason that I actually agreed in the end to the Conditional Baptism is that I realised that huge damage had been done to my relationship with Jesus and thought “what the hell, lets get it over and done with. At least i’ll be fully part of a Worshiping community then”

So, that is the end then

p.s. in the end on Caonditional Baptism was performed, that was due to be done in September
 
Oftentimes we encounter obstacles, large and small, on our way to full communion with the Church. Conversion stories are replete with such experiences, mine included. Apparently, the obstacles you have had were beyond your desire to be reconciled to Christ’s Church. I think that’s too bad for both you and your parish. No doubt some people at the parish let you down, but you will find that every church has such problems, none excepted. Perhaps after being away from the full truth of Christ’s Church it will make you hunger all the more for it. I wish you all the best no matter what you decide to do. 🙂
 
How was the reschedule request mishandled?

…and that was it, after all you’ve been through?

This reminds me of Jonah and the worm, truly.
 
Hello Mark.
dcbrit2003 said:
Having post the above, the below will come as a bit of a shock ( at least it does to me ) :

Dear Parish Priest,

Having given it some thought, I have decided not to proceed with reception into the Catholic Church. The straw that broke the camel’s back being the mis-handling of the request from my mother for an alternative date of my reception ( see e-mail attachment ) in the Catholic Church. Having gone through the ordeal of having the validity of my Baptism questioned, something I found very spiritually destructive, and now the issue of the date of my reception. Emotionally, the best way of describing how I feel is…well, just tired. I’m tired of the whole process and I don’t want to go on any further.

Therefore, I will be finding another ( Anglican ) church to go to when i’m back in September. Also, it is my wish that I not be contacted for whatever reason by anyone from your Parish. I wish to be left in peace.

Mark

…so, that concludes this sorry episode then. If I had know that my ( valid ) Baptism would be questioned, without any evidence to the contrary being presented to me at anytime, I would not have darkened the door of the RCIA course. The only reason that I actually agreed in the end to the Conditional Baptism is that I realised that huge damage had been done to my relationship with Jesus and thought “what the hell, lets get it over and done with. At least i’ll be fully part of a Worshiping community then”

So, that is the end then

p.s. in the end on Caonditional Baptism was performed, that was due to be done in September
Click to expand...
I am really sad that you’ve changed your mind. I can only hope that you continue to seek Christ in all that you do in your everyday life and follow Him wherever He leads. Why do I say that? Because I am a convert and I know if you truly follow Him, you will find your way back to His doorstep, the Church.

One thing that I need to say about your decision to go Anglican, is that there, the only Sacrament you’ll have that will be valid is your Baptism if it is indeed a valid Baptism. I also think that expecting that your mom could assist the Priest in deciding the day of your reception into the Church is also very much in keeping with the way things get done outside the Church, seeing a Sacramental occasion as a social event rather than an encounter with Jesus Christ. While I understand your needs as a human being, I myself am one, DUH, I also know that we are asked to forget ourselves to find ourselves in Christ. In dying to self, we rise in Him and that means accepting everything that happens as coming from Hid Divine Hand, including a challenge that went all the way to a Bishop regarding the validity of your Baptism. What I was secretly hoping you’d see in this was the loving Hand of your Heavenly Father. Many of us are slapped on one cheek when entering the Church and we are supposed to know enough to turn the other cheek. It is par for the course. It doesn’t matter how right one thinks one is or how sinful those others are when we desire Communion with the One Who is the head of the Church, Jesus Christ Himself. What matters is God and our relationship with Him. All those others around us at that time in our lives are tests of various kinds and the reality of this is only fully understood and seen in retrospect. You were given a big one obviously and you’ve decided, (I’m hoping you change your mind) to leave behind the ultimate goal, Communion with Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, Holy Communion, for a worshipful welcoming, and loving communion with mere persons in the Anglican church. We’ll keep the light on for you though.

Blessings and prayers,

Glenda
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top