Value of money in a relationship

[oremosjuntos]

Hey y’all. My name is Juan and I am in my late teen years. I was just thinking about how people date/court ,and one question that continuously bugs me as a guy who loves simplicity is this: is money that so important in a relationship (and I mean in the dating/courtship stage of a couple’s relationship). By the way, I am single just to clear up the question of this being an actual situation I’m facing.
As I see our society in America I feel like many struggles we face such as our day to day crosses to make ends meet, the obstacles of a society that replaces humble ideals for extravagant and more selfish ideals, etc., really affects us. As for us being men, we are expected to provide, drive, work, and pamper our women. Now, I am not saying this is evil, but what happens with the guy who’s just starting to work or just desires to live a life with simplicity (I.e. not buying everything that’s new or exquisite). I am in no way am I endorsing us men to be lazy and cheap, but all I wanna ask is: does money or being able to provide for a woman an important aspect of a relationship? What happened with being free and spending time with the significant other as a kid in the playground? Even the simplest of things is often sacrificed over something flashy and sometimes mediocre please someone.I say that living in a disposable society blinds our thinking a lot where we. constantly work work work for something material which withers away. I do believe that a simple, love and pure filled relationship is possible, and I would like to hear what you guys think. Obviously, I can’t stress enough we live in an unjust society and we further deepen those valleys made by economic inequality by living up to how big companies want us to be. Let’s give a little with a lot of love, not give a lot with a little love.

P.S. I do not mean that if you give a lot, you give it with little love. Please avoid making that connection. I did not intend for it to be as so.

 

[Joy2day]

Yeah no! If u have money & dont want to.share it with those u love - why should u? Love doesnt equal protection or responsiblity - right?!

 

[Auntie_A]

Men are expected to be good providers for their family and should learn to not be afraid of work and prosperity. Women also work and should learn the same about work and prosperity. This is not a sin.

HOWEVER, there is way too much emphasis on men being expected to give gifts and become BIG DADDY. And many are too preoccupied with material gains and a shortlived happiness.

I would sooner fall in love with a man who donated much money to the poor than a man who lavishes me with diamonds, flowers and chocolates. The first is trying to win God’s love and approval for eternity; the second seems to be buying my approval, and at the slightest change, I think their attention could easily be shifted to some other girl because they have no eye on eternity.

 

[MJJean]

Umm, you do know providing for a family is not cheap, right? It’s amazing how expensive maintaining kids and a home actually is even living a modest life.

For example, we own our home. In our area, owning a home is less expensive than renting even with property taxes and insurance included. Even though owning is less expensive than renting, owners are responsible for repairs. Roof needs to be replaced, minimum $5,000 here. Water heater goes bad? $600 plus plumber fees. An appliance stops working it must be replaced immediately or at least very soon. Without a decent income a husband and wife who own their home wouldn’t have the money to make necessary repairs or to replace broken appliances. And one must pay utility costs, as well. Not to mention the costs of maintaining the yard.

Kids? Wow!

Children need new clothes and shoes often as they are rapidly growing. You don’t have to buy new, you can buy from resale shops, but new or gently used clothes and shoes are still a regular expense. Plus there are regular expenses once the child begins school and, in my experience, those expenses go up as the child ages. School supplies (more than just paper, pencils, binders and folders…this year we needed scientific calculators to the tune of $25.00 each and flash drives, too) , field trip fees, special project supplies for science fairs or graded projects, uniforms/school clothes, etc. Once the child has graduated high school there are also college costs to consider.

Feeding a family can be done relatively inexpensively, but it is still a weekly expense. Feeding our family of 4 costs us about $200 a week (we do our own breakfast, lunch, and dinner to keep costs down and I shop at 2-3 different supermarket stores every week to get the lowest price).

Depending on your country, healthcare can also be a big expense. Kids get sick and are prone to accidental injuries. Even with good insurance there are office visit fees, prescription costs, monthly premiums, etc.

Of course, add in at least one car/van and associated expenses. Gasoline, insurance, yearly registration fees, and repairs. Then, when the car eventually needs to be replaced because it can no longer be repaired or the repairs are too costly compared to the worth of the vehicle and how likely it will break again, there needs to be money to buy a new or used car.

Oh, and as the married couple ages they must have some sort of savings to cover retirement living expenses and it is prudent to have life insurance and another savings to take care of the family should one spouse die unexpectedly.

So, yes, the ability to make a decent wage and provide for a family is a concern when courting and marrying.

 

[gardenswithkids]

If you want a simple life, find a woman who is just as happy (or happier) with flowers you picked yourself or a single flower over an expensive bouquet. Stay away from women who think diamonds are a girl’s best friend; they already have a best friend and it will never be you.

As Valentine’s Day approaches, advertisers want us to believe we have to spend a lot of money on romance, but that is simply not true. Simplicity can be elegant and romantic. Sharing a dessert with a cup of coffee or tea at a quaint little spot can be more special than a fancy restaurant. A walk through a park can be incredibly romantic. Writing a poem and sending it to the woman you love only costs time and courage. Find someone who is also attracted to simplicity and then romance her. Some men don’t know how to do that without spending money, but money isn’t required for romance.

A man who writes his woman love poems, takes her on long walks, picks her flowers and takes her to a special little place where they can split dessert–that’s romantic!

Since this is a Catholic website, I will point out that there are many beautiful Catholic Churches and it doesn’t cost anything to take a woman to Mass. My parents’ first date was to Mass.

Yes, as people here have pointed out houses and children cost money. And I will point out that financial struggles often contribute to the break up of marriages. But as you observed in your original post, many people make extravagant and selfish choices on how they spend their money. Such people are more likely to encounter financial struggles as they over-spend–and such couples are likely to fight over money when they can’t make enough to match their lifestyle choices. There is a certain amount of money needed just to have a place to live and food on the table for the family. A hard working guy might struggle to provide that, (and maybe his wife might work, at least for a while when they are first getting started.) But after the basic needs have been provided for, most women in a survey I once read say they would rather have more time with their husband rather than more money. People get caught up in this lifestyle where they spend, spend, spend. But spending money, (beyond the basics) is not what makes women happy, nor does it make for happy relationships. Shopping for non-essentials and over-spending are often habits people develop when they don’t have what they really want, so they keep looking because what they find never really satisfies them.

Love is not found in stores. Find a nice, simple Catholic girl. Romance her with the simple things in life and treat her right. Work hard to provide, but don’t let work and the drive to provide her and your family get too much in the way of simple romance. Once you win her, keep doing the simply things you did to win her, (like picking her flowers)–because those are what won her heart and those will be how you keep her heart beating for you.
:flowers:

 

[Xantippe]

There have been some very good points upthread.

oremosjuntos said:

“Hey y’all. My name is Juan and I am in my late teen years. I was just thinking about how people date/court ,and one question that continuously bugs me as a guy who loves simplicity is this: is money that so important in a relationship (and I mean in the dating/courtship stage of a couple’s relationship). By the way, I am single just to clear up the question of this being an actual situation I’m facing.”

It will be very important for your future family that you have a good work ethic, make a decent living, are careful with money, and plan for the future. But that’s not gendered–you also want a wife who has a good work ethic, is careful with money, and plans for the future.

“As for us being men, we are expected to provide, drive, work, and pamper our women.”

Run, run, run from the princesses. You don’t get to be a princess when you have a toddler and a baby at home–unless you are very, very well off. Being a mother and a wife is a very hard job, so you need to be looking for a woman who is tough enough to do the work that that entails without self-pity or regrets about her lost single days. Of course, you should help to the best of your abilities.

Read Proverbs 31:10-31. Actually, read all of Proverbs.

Also, take a personal finance class, for instance Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University.

No parent ever said, “Wow, it’s too bad we have this extra $1,000. What are we ever going to do with it?”

 

[Xantippe]

Also, pay attention to which women you are gravitating to. Are you just automatically gravitating toward the ones who spend two hours every day on hair and makeup and a large fraction of their salaries on personal maintenance? It may be that you find yourself most attracted to the shiniest, most expensively dressed, most high-maintenance women. If so, ask yourself a few questions.

How many hours a day does it take to look like that? (Do I want to sit around waiting for her to be done for the next 60 years?)

How much money does it cost to look like that? (Do I want to pay for it?)

If you’re not clear on the answers to those questions, ask a good female friend or young relative.

I think you will find lower-maintenance women lower-maintenance in general.

 

[MJJean]

No parent ever said, “Wow, it’s too bad we have this extra $1,000. What are we ever going to do with it?”

Truth! I bet a lot of people have said “Oh, no! The car/refrigerator/washer/dryer/furnace/hot water heater/etc. is broken and needs be repaired/replaced. We don’t have enough to do that and pay our regular bills. What will we do?”, though.

And financial strain does put a strain on a marriage. The number one thing married couples fight about is money. Even living frugally, if there isn’t enough money to cover the bills and to cover an unexpected expense a couple will be stressed and argue.

If we have an “extra” $1,000 hanging around in the bank account we leave it there! I can guarantee something will break and need to be replaced sometime soon.

 

[1ke]

As for us being men, we are expected to provide, drive, work, and pamper our women.

Hmm, whose expectation is this? You must come to realize that every person is different and not every woman expects or wants to be “pampered”. What does that mean anyway? It’s kind of insulting, actually.

Make your own expectations, and find a woman who has the same expectations and same values.

Problem solved.

Now, I am not saying this is evil, but what happens with the guy who’s just starting to work or just desires to live a life with simplicity

He finds a woman equally devoted to simplicity.

 

[Cat]

We worked with a pro-life organization for many years (volunteer). My husband and I provided emergency, short-term, and occasionally long-term shelter to women in crisis pregnancies.

During the training, one of the things we learned was that the biggest “need” that women have is "security."

We experienced this first hand, as we watched one of the women in our shelter seek out and go after a man in our church (we were not Catholic at the time). This man had the goal of becoming a missionary, but once this woman glommed onto him, he became infatuated with her (no wonder–she was so pretty and pregnant, and he felt like a knight in shining armor rescuing her). He ended up giving up his dreams for this woman, and she ended up with a husband to care for her.

I hope it all worked out for them. Sometimes rocky beginnings lead to smooth pathways. But I seriously doubt it. The woman was desperate to find someone to provide security for her and her child. At first it was us, and she was happy to be under our care in the shelter. But as her due date got closer, she realized that she would have to leave our shelter once she had the baby, and got busy looking for her next source of security.

There’s nothing wrong with a woman’s need for security. A woman is more vulnerable than a man because generally speaking, she is weaker physically. A woman with a child is even more vulnerable. GOD created us women to need security–this isn’t something worldly or materialistic.

We search for men who are capable of providing us with the security that we need. It’s not “princessy” or materialistic when a woman wants to feel secure. Many women want a husband who earns enough income so that the woman doesn’t have to go back to working outside the home once she has a baby; many women want to stay home with their children and raise them instead of turning them over to a caregiver to be raised.

Women have a way of thinking “long-term.” They look to the future, and see their children playing soccer with a club (and earning a college scholarship), or taking violin lessons. These activities cost money. I don’t think it’s “princessy” of a woman to want her children to have opportunities to better themselves and learn skills.

In your OP, you said, “I can’t stress enough we live in an unjust society and we further deepen those valleys made by economic inequality by living up to how big companies want us to be.”

What this says to me as a woman is that you don’t want to work, unless it’s on your own terms. What I hear you saying is that any financial woes you have are due to “big companies” who oppress you and don’t pay you enough. Even if that’s not what you mean, it’s what I and many other women hear you saying, and we will stay far away from you when we are looking for a husband. We don’t want to end up supporting YOU!

Get over your thinking about the economy. It’s incorrect. Go back to school, or do some serious study, and learn the truth about the U.S. economy. The United States is not an “unjust society”. Economic inequality happens in the U.S. because we allow people to go to school for free and make their own decisions about their career paths, and many people make unwise decisions and end up without the ability to earn a viable income. But in the U.S., these people have the option of improving themselves and acquiring skills that enable them to increase their earning potential.

 

[Xantippe]

Cat said:

“I don’t think it’s “princessy” of a woman to want her children to have opportunities to better themselves and learn skills.”

But it would be “princess-y” to expect regular tokens of affection from the jewelers.

This is a tough one, because one wants a husband who is both financially secure and not stingy, but on the other hand, those trinkets and dinners out now could be costing your future children their opportunity to have their mother at home or piano lessons or summer camp, or whatever. Unfortunately, it’s easy to go to extremes–1) to be financially secure but so stingy that they are denying children fairly basic things (not celebrating birthdays, not taking care of children’s health or educational issues) or 2) to be open-handed and big-hearted, but impulsive, and so not have money for “needs” because it’s already been spent on “wants.”

I guess one just has to have a lot of talks about expectations and priorities while courting.

 

[EasterJoy]

There is nothing wrong with what you’re suggesting, in principle. Do you act with simplicity yourself, and do you seek out women who choose to dress in a simple manner? Do not try to re-make someone. If a woman seems wound up in clothes and nice things, don’t ask her out. When you ask a young woman out, suggest somewhere that is not expensive. You do not have to dress expensively, but definitely make it clear that you took care with your grooming, that you are frugal with money but not with effort. As you say, do the little thing with great love.

When you do so, do not neglect to show that you expect to work hard in life (because sometimes “I don’t want to be wound up about money” really means “I am not wild about the idea of working hard in school or getting a job”) and that you are not cheap. For instance, do not neglect to give a gratuity to those who serve you, if it is customary. Talk about your plans for a job and what educational or vocational advancement you are considering. Also, ask her about her plans. It is not attractive to make a date all about what you think, even if you think some very praiseworthy things. A humble man is not simply a man who won’t open his wallet. He is a man who listens, a man who considers the needs of others, a man who accepts others without artificial enhancements.

 

[EasterJoy]

No parent ever said, “Wow, it’s too bad we have this extra $1,000. What are we ever going to do with it?”

Not a few people annually say, “Wow, we got money back from our taxes. What shall we spend it on?” as if the money were destined to burn a hole in their pockets.

 

[Xantippe]

Cat said:

“In your OP, you said, “I can’t stress enough we live in an unjust society and we further deepen those valleys made by economic inequality by living up to how big companies want us to be.””

Then don’t.

Again, a personal finance class like Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University could be really life changing for you. He’s very big on training people to have some sales resistance and not be a retail victim. You might even meet a nice girl at FPU–who knows? Here are some NYC locations:

daveramsey.com/fpu/classfinder/#center=40.714353,-74.005973

There’s a huge difference between being broke and being frugal. Being frugal and DIY and bohemian is actually kind of cool right now.

Try googling “frugal NYC” or “frugal Brooklyn.” That’s another way you might meet a nice girl.

“What this says to me as a woman is that you don’t want to work, unless it’s on your own terms. What I hear you saying is that any financial woes you have are due to “big companies” who oppress you and don’t pay you enough. Even if that’s not what you mean, it’s what I and many other women hear you saying, and we will stay far away from you when we are looking for a husband. We don’t want to end up supporting YOU!”

Yes.

That may be unfair to the OP personally, but you do not want to give off that impression. Likewise, for women, I would not advise starting a first date with, “I want to get married, have kids and stay home.” Sure, that may be their dream, but that’s going to scare off a lot of guys who imagine that that means that your plan is to live the Pinterest dream while they pay the bills.

 

[Xantippe]

EasterJoy said:

“Do you act with simplicity yourself, and do you seek out women who choose to dress in a simple manner?”

Yes!

Once you get married, you shouldn’t expect your wife and kids to wear yard sale finds while you wear normal store clothes. (That’s an example from a marriage thread elsewhere on the forum.) While things won’t be exactly even within a family, there has to be some basic level of fairness.

“Do not try to re-make someone. If a woman seems wound up in clothes and nice things, don’t ask her out.”

Right!

Also, Facebook (if you can stand it) is not a bad filter.

“When you ask a young woman out, suggest somewhere that is not expensive. You do not have to dress expensively, but definitely make it clear that you took care with your grooming, that you are frugal with money but not with effort. As you say, do the little thing with great love.”

Yes!

“When you do so, do not neglect to show that you expect to work hard in life (because sometimes “I don’t want to be wound up about money” really means “I am not wild about the idea of working hard in school or getting a job”) and that you are not cheap. For instance, do not neglect to give a gratuity to those who serve you, if it is customary. Talk about your plans for a job and what educational or vocational advancement you are considering.”

Yes!

A strong work ethic is very attractive.

“Also, ask her about her plans. It is not attractive to make a date all about what you think, even if you think some very praiseworthy things. A humble man is not simply a man who won’t open his wallet. He is a man who listens, a man who considers the needs of others, a man who accepts others without artificial enhancements.”

Yes!

 

[Xantippe]

EasterJoy said:

“Not a few people annually say, “Wow, we got money back from our taxes. What shall we spend it on?” as if the money were destined to burn a hole in their pockets.”

They figure it out pretty fast though, don’t they?

 

[EasterJoy]

EasterJoy said:

“Not a few people annually say, “Wow, we got money back from our taxes. What shall we spend it on?” as if the money were destined to burn a hole in their pockets.”

They figure it out pretty fast though, don’t they?

One hopes they remember, “Oh, yes, we always have to scramble when it is time to pay property taxes, and we are always caught by surprise by how much more expensive the school supplies get with each passing grade”, and save it.

I see that insurance commercial with the two women coveting the red purse, and it makes me cringe!

 

[oremosjuntos]

Thanks guys…
I skimmed through a few of your posts and I noticed that a few of you brought up situations in the context of marriage. If you did read what I post, I was trying to receive an opinion on a dating situation. Again, I do understand that’s important in marriage. There has to be stability in being able to maintain a family, treat your spouse, etc. I am concerned many of you thought I just want something no-frills, no worries with another woman. Let’s steer in the direction in a relationship (no more marriage), as many of you like talking about .

P.S. I am still in the stage in looking at what I really like about a woman. Simplicity would be nice but not as important as a faith-filled but outgoing [hopefully bilingual like myself and maybe from the same origins, haha ] I like a person who likes to have fun is what I mean in a child-like sense. Some people can get very serious all the time, sheesh. No se porque.

You guys are awesome!

God bless.

 

[Lorelei12]

Thanks guys…
I skimmed through a few of your posts and I noticed that a few of you brought up situations in the context of marriage. If you did read what I post, I was trying to receive an opinion on a dating situation. Again, I do understand that’s important in marriage. There has to be stability in being able to maintain a family, treat your spouse, etc. I am concerned many of you thought I just want something no-frills, no worries with another woman. Let’s steer in the direction in a relationship (no more marriage), as many of you like talking about .

P.S. I am still in the stage in looking at what I really like about a woman. Simplicity would be nice but not as important as a faith-filled but outgoing [hopefully bilingual like myself and maybe from the same origins, haha ] I like a person who likes to have fun is what I mean in a child-like sense. Some people can get very serious all the time, sheesh. No se porque.

You guys are awesome!

God bless.

I think a lot of people posted about marriage because it makes sense to. You date to find a spouse, and evaluate the other person in all kinds of ways, including their work ethic and ability to earn an income. What you do as a boyfriend shows a future wife how you would be as a husband.

So I’d say yes, money is important to a relationship, the nature of its importance being dependent on someone’s stage of life. For instance, if you are in high school I’d say it would be attractive to a young woman if you had a part time job, participated in extracurriculars, and/or had plans for after graduation, whether that’s college or trade school or apprenticeship, etc. After high school I’d expect someone to be either in school or working, or both. Sometimes things happen- a career path doesn’t work out, you get laid off, but the important thing is a willingness to work.

There are a lot of inexpensive ways to date someone, and if you’re looking for a simple life, you’ll want to seek a wife who wants a simple life too. And both spouses must be willing to “provide”- this takes many forms- paid jobs, taking care of children, household upkeep, taking care of sick spouses- what matters is that you take on life together, no matter who does what. Not everyone wants an extravagant lifestyle, but a woman you’re dating will want to see that you have what it takes to be a husband. And that includes the ability to take care of a family.

 

[Xantippe]

Yes to what Lorelei12 said–as a Catholic one is dating in order to find a spouse, so of course marriage enters into it. While you’re dating, you are interviewing to be a husband (hence the need to demonstrate your financial solvency), as well as interviewing a prospective wife. While dating is very stylized and artificial, it offers a lot of opportunities to show good or bad qualities. Does the person keep you waiting? Does she have a temper that she doesn’t control? Do none of her friendships seem to last? Does she have very few (or no) friends or relatives in her life? Does she have interests outside of shopping? Does she have a different outfit for every day of the month? Is she employed to the best of her abilities? Does she seem to expect you to pay for her basic living expenses? (Expecting you to pay for the first initial dates is fine–expecting you to pay her gas bill is not.) If she has kids, is she a good mother? Is she incapable of spending 15 minutes without her phone in her hand?

With regard to dating, do look for somebody who shares your values, but be generous (within your means). You might, for instance, find that you have an average of $20 a week available for dating. In that case, figure out how much fun you can get for your $20 and don’t regret it. If you can’t afford $20 a week, spend less. Don’t spend what you can’t afford.

There must be a lot of ideas for inexpensive dates on the internet. And with gifts, the better you know the person, the easier it is to buy them something inexpensive that they’ll like. Generally speaking, the jewelry store is where guys go to get expensive gifts that their girlfriends and wives won’t like because they’re too darn lazy to think or spend time. (Some women do like jewelry, but even then, they usually like particular items, not stuff that was chosen for them.)