Value of money in a relationship

[MomaMary8]

Hey y’all. My name is Juan and I am in my late teen years. I was just thinking about how people date/court ,and one question that continuously bugs me as a guy who loves simplicity is this: is money that so important in a relationship (and I mean in the dating/courtship stage of a couple’s relationship). By the way, I am single just to clear up the question of this being an actual situation I’m facing.
As I see our society in America I feel like many struggles we face such as our day to day crosses to make ends meet, the obstacles of a society that replaces humble ideals for extravagant and more selfish ideals, etc., really affects us. As for us being men, we are expected to provide, drive, work, and pamper our women.

I think your values are skewed. A decent man will strive to provide and protect his family. Protect them from poverty, protect them from sin and protect them in the future by providing a moral upbringing and a moral education so that his children will be strong, moral adults when the are grown.

A good man will cherish his wife, because he knows she is the heart of the home. Pamper? You can find a cute little lap dog and paint its nails. A wife? You need to treat her well and love her. A wife usually knows what is in the bank account and would rather feed her children than have diamonds. Pamper? that is an insult to any woman you may think of dating in the future.

Now, I am not saying this is evil, but what happens with the guy who’s just starting to work or just desires to live a life with simplicity (I.e. not buying everything that’s new or exquisite). I am in no way am I endorsing us men to be lazy and cheap, but all I wanna ask is: does money or being able to provide for a woman an important aspect of a relationship? What happened with being free and spending time with the significant other as a kid in the playground? Even the simplest of things is often sacrificed over something flashy and sometimes mediocre please someone.I say that living in a disposable society blinds our thinking a lot where we. constantly work work work for something material which withers away. I do believe that a simple, love and pure filled relationship is possible, and I would like to hear what you guys think. **Obviously, I can’t stress enough we live in an unjust society and we further deepen those valleys made by economic inequality by living up to how big companies want us to be. **Let’s give a little with a lot of love, not give a lot with a little love.

P.S. I do not mean that if you give a lot, you give it with little love. Please avoid making that connection. I did not intend for it to be as so.

And how, pray tell, do big companies force you to live a certain way??? By demanding you to work for the paycheck you are given? You are required by your christian duty to EARN the money you receive from your employer. That money belongs to your employer and you have entered an agreement to exchange labor for payment.

With your current view of dating and women and employers, I would advise you not to date. Please take time to read good moral books that will help you to learn the role of a Catholic husband. At this time you have much to learn. God bless

 

[EasterJoy]

And how, pray tell, do big companies force you to live a certain way??? By demanding you to work for the paycheck you are given? You are required by your christian duty to EARN the money you receive from your employer. That money belongs to your employer and you have entered an agreement to exchange labor for payment.

He may only mean that there are companies driven by profit who do not mind getting it on the backs of their lowest-paid employees. It is not wrong for someone who has had the opportunities and by hard work has attained the educational achievement to be in the ranks of the more highly-paid employees to have some scruples about working for a company like that.

I would agree with you on this much: The OP should be cautioned that the size of a company is not an indicator of the level of greed or other amorality in the organization. There are large companies with integrity and a mind to do business in a just manner, and there are small ones run by the greedy and the dishonest. Likewise, there are employees who expect no more than a living wage for an honest day’s work, and others who believe that those who don’t own the company are somehow entitled to “stick it to the Man” on the theory that people with more property and power than they do must have it dishonestly. That supposed “Robin Hood” mentality is just an excuse for dishonesty. I think that is what you are saying, and I agree with that completely.

 

[gardenswithkids]

I…And how, pray tell, do big companies force you to live a certain way??? …

I simply read this as how advertisers tell us to live. He’s a 19 yo living in New York, (a liberal state where the governor recently made comments to the effect that pro-life conservatives were not welcome there. So much for tolerance from those who speak of tolerance!) So when the original poster’s wording included anti-big company lingo, I just let his comment about big companies roll off and dismissed it as if he’s writing with a liberal accent and assumed he was talking about advertisers (like those on Madison Ave in NY), who try to sell a lifestyle that few can afford and who present us with new things we “need” that we never knew we needed until they told us we needed them.

I’ll make another suggestion to the original poster if he wants a simple, less expensive life: Get out of New York.

 

[Xantippe]

gardenswithkids said:

“I’ll make another suggestion to the original poster if he wants a simple, less expensive life: Get out of New York.”

Not a bad plan. If he wants to marry somebody from a particular ethnic group that is uncommon elsewhere or to enjoy a particular ethnic enclave, that might be a complication, but in general high-cost areas are very difficult to raise a family in. And it’s not that easy to be a single in, either, as I think the OP has discovered.

 

[MomaMary8]

He may only mean that there are companies driven by profit who do not mind getting it on the backs of their lowest-paid employees. It is not wrong for someone who has had the opportunities and by hard work has attained the educational achievement to be in the ranks of the more highly-paid employees to have some scruples about working for a company like that.

I would agree with you on this much: The OP should be cautioned that the size of a company is not an indicator of the level of greed or other amorality in the organization. There are large companies with integrity and a mind to do business in a just manner, and there are small ones run by the greedy and the dishonest. Likewise, there are employees who expect no more than a living wage for an honest day’s work, and others who believe that those who don’t own the company are somehow entitled to “stick it to the Man” on the theory that people with more property and power than they do must have it dishonestly. That supposed “Robin Hood” mentality is just an excuse for dishonesty. I think that is what you are saying, and I agree with that completely.

Greetings Easter Joy!

I just think the assumption the OP may have made and you restate is just that…an assumption of a “company” and it is uncharitable assumption. Unless you know the company is a immoral company (ie: planned parenthood) then there should be a charitable assumption. Not all company decisions are made to “stick it to the employee,” although some decisions may be made without fully understanding the ramifications of the business decisions, that does not mean the company is “evil” or the intent was evil.

Just my :twocents:

 

[MomaMary8]

I simply read this as how advertisers tell us to live. He’s a 19 yo living in New York, (a liberal state where the governor recently made comments to the effect that pro-life conservatives were not welcome there. So much for tolerance from those who speak of tolerance!) So when the original poster’s wording included anti-big company lingo, I just let his comment about big companies roll off and dismissed it as if he’s writing with a liberal accent and assumed he was talking about advertisers (like those on Madison Ave in NY), who try to sell a lifestyle that few can afford and who present us with new things we “need” that we never knew we needed until they told us we needed them.

I’ll make another suggestion to the original poster if he wants a simple, less expensive life: Get out of New York.

Yes, I should have let it roll off my back as well, but I often hear the comments about evil business owners and I know my husband has worked quite hard to get his business going. His employees have been known to toe the anti-business line. (For some reason employees are happy to tell a fellow employee their disgruntled feelings even if the other employee is the boss’ son!!) I guess the OP hit a nerve.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Also, pay attention to which women you are gravitating to. Are you just automatically gravitating toward the ones who spend two hours every day on hair and makeup and a large fraction of their salaries on personal maintenance? It may be that you find yourself most attracted to the shiniest, most expensively dressed, most high-maintenance women. If so, ask yourself a few questions.

How many hours a day does it take to look like that? (Do I want to sit around waiting for her to be done for the next 60 years?)

How much money does it cost to look like that? (Do I want to pay for it?)

If you’re not clear on the answers to those questions, ask a good female friend or young relative.

I think you will find lower-maintenance women lower-maintenance in general.

I am so grateful that I’m not dating anymore. Frankly, as a woman, being judged like that sounds daunting and humiliating. On a day to day basis, I tend to look like a shiny, expensively dressed, high maintenance woman. I’m not, but I look like it. Thanks to thrift stores, garage sales, and consignment shops, I have an entire work and social wardrobe made up almost exclusively of very high end designer items. Frequently, I see a very nice piece of clothing that is not my size or style at a secondhand store, but I pick it up for a few bucks anyway, and then use a clothing exchange site to trade it in for something that I can wear. Despite the fact that I can be seen wearing Louis Vuitton shoes and carrying a Gucci purse, I’ve never spent more than $15 on a designer item. (Yes, it takes several years to build a wardrobe that way, but it’s so much fun to do and very worth the effort.) I keep my hair colored and I add very nice looking low-lights for texture. Although it looks professional, this never costs me more than $20, as a good friend and I learned how to do it at home. Every few weeks we meet up for lunch and hair coloring so that we can help each other out and make sure that the color is even and the lowlights/highlights are uniform. I do my hair every day, but I cut off 12 inches a few months ago so that it doesn’t take hardly any time at all to put a little mousse in and straighten it. I do all of this because I’m in a very competitive legal program and I meet with high powered firms all the time. The last thing I need is to look like the poor, small town girl who went to a cheap state university that I am while competing with Ivy League grads. And besides, it’s a heck of a lot of fun to try to find the best deals and flip things on exchange sites or eBay. It’s a skill like any other, and for me, it’s a hobby. Some people like to golf, I like to play a rousing game of find-the-best-deal-for-the-least-amount-of-money. If I have an afternoon to myself, that’s frequently what I’ll do.

If I were available and a man who was interested in me asked his female friend or sister how much time and money I spend on my appearance, it would be vastly overestimated. If he took the time to get to know me as a person, hung out with me on a weekend when I’m in jeans and whatever cute top I got for $3 at a garage sale, and maybe watched a football game with me, he would see a very different person. If he met my hardworking, rural family, and saw how careful I am with money myself, he would probably respect how hard I’ve worked to get the things that I need/want to help me get ahead, even though I have never had the economic advantages that so many of my peers have/had.

Don’t judge a person solely on their appearance. Remember that behind the clothes, hair, and makeup there is a unique human being, and that’s what matters. They may not be the person that they first appear to be, and there may be a reason for that. You’ll never know until you get to know her.

My husband likes to joke that I’m his “discount trophy wife”, and he’s very grateful for my thrifty and creative ways of making sure that we’re well dressed and always saving money. He’s benefited greatly from this as well. He’s the youngest person in his office, but he always wears the nicest suits.

 

[Xantippe]

BEL said:

“On a day to day basis, I tend to look like a shiny, expensively dressed, high maintenance woman. I’m not, but I look like it.”

That’s also a very good point. You’d have to get to know the person in order to tell the difference between “looks high-maintenance” and “is high-maintenance”. If she needs an hour in the morning before being able to leave the house, that will eventually come up if he’s dating seriously.

I do find it a little suspicious, though, that he is finding all of the women he deals with high-maintenance (pamper–!!!). That, to me, strongly suggests that he is getting distracted by “shiny” and ignoring less flashy women. Meanwhile, a lot of cute, family-oriented, reasonable girls are stuck at home on Saturday night, alphabetizing their holy cards.

 

[Annie39]

“Meanwhile, a lot of cute, family-oriented, reasonable girls are stuck at home on Saturday night, alphabetizing their holy cards.”

Too funny. I think I’ll borrow it.

 

[Xantippe]

Happy to be of service!

I’m a 30-something married lady with kids now, but I remember being pretty much romantically invisible as a college student. If a boy had so much as invited me out to Dairy Queen, I would have been over the moon.

 

[maryjk]

Happy to be of service!

I’m a 30-something married lady with kids now, but I remember being pretty much romantically invisible as a college student. If a boy had so much as invited me out to Dairy Queen, I would have been over the moon.

My first date with my husband was essentially walking around a place like Riverwalk. I bought my own lunch, he got us dessert.

We walked around, then sat by a fountain and talked.

His cost? However much ice cream was 24 years ago. I even met him there, being the first date and all.

 

[EasterJoy]

Yes, I should have let it roll off my back as well, but I often hear the comments about evil business owners and I know my husband has worked quite hard to get his business going. His employees have been known to toe the anti-business line. (For some reason employees are happy to tell a fellow employee their disgruntled feelings even if the other employee is the boss’ son!!) I guess the OP hit a nerve.

There is a lot of this “evil business” rhetoric going around among “under-employed” college graduates in our area (Portland, OR). The Occupy Movement, for instance, complains that banking interests have “held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.” When half the globe is illiterate and college-educated people refuse to take a job in manual labor harvesting the food that supports the rest of the population, is a college education really a human right? If the rest of society owes you a college education, what do *you *owe the rest of society for giving it to you? When does the obligation go the other way?

Back to the OP’s lament: He has to be aware that he labors under a burden similar to the man who has a legitimate bone to pick with Wall Street: that is, he shares a complaint with some others who complain from less than a pure position. There are guys who resent having to spend money on courtship because they are just plain cheap. They ignore the women who don’t heap a ton of money on themselves to achieve a certain look, but then complain because all of the women they date are “so shallow”! Do they think that all that glamour is free? It doesn’t work that way. Neither do people gamble their life savings and work like a dog for years on end in order to build up a public-service agency for their employees. It is expected that the one who imagines the dream and hazards the loss that would have come with failure to realize it will make a commensurate gain.

The owner of a successful business does well to be generous with his gains, but it is up to him (or her) to decide how to do that. Consider the words the Lord put into the mouth of landowner in the Parable of the Wages, “My friend, I am not cheating you. Did you not agree with me for the usual daily wage? Take what is yours and go. What if I wish to give this last one the same as you? Am I not free to do as I wish with my own money? Are you envious because I am generous?”

 

[pensmama87]

There is a lot of this “evil business” rhetoric going around among “under-employed” college graduates in our area (Portland, OR). The Occupy Movement, for instance, complains that banking interests have “held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.” When half the globe is illiterate and college-educated people refuse to take a job in manual labor harvesting the food that supports the rest of the population, is a college education really a human right? If the rest of society owes you a college education, what do *you *owe the rest of society for giving it to you? When does the obligation go the other way?

I was tempted by that kind of mentality for a while. I really feel like I was “had” by the education industry, specifically people/banks who sell loans. I also feel like my entire graduate education was a waste, except for the part where I learned that you never, ever go to graduate school unless you get to go for free. So it’s really tempting to get mad at the folks who stroke your ego, tell you that you’re smart, you’ll get a job right away, that this is how “everyone does it.” But at the end of the day, yeah, I was arrogant and prideful and looked down on people who had to really work hard for a living, and it bit me in the butt.

I’m not glad my head got screwed on straight the way that it did, but I’m still glad it did. I’ve never been a “princess,” but I definitely had a kind of entitlement mentality and I had it bad, and it is very, very common among my age group. We are struggling, and it stinks, but many of us aren’t really ready to face our own role in the mess we’ve helped make for ourselves.

 

[EasterJoy]

I was tempted by that kind of mentality for a while. I really feel like I was “had” by the education industry, specifically people/banks who sell loans. I also feel like my entire graduate education was a waste, except for the part where I learned that you never, ever go to graduate school unless you get to go for free. So it’s really tempting to get mad at the folks who stroke your ego, tell you that you’re smart, you’ll get a job right away, that this is how “everyone does it.” But at the end of the day, yeah, I was arrogant and prideful and looked down on people who had to really work hard for a living, and it bit me in the butt.

I’m not glad my head got screwed on straight the way that it did, but I’m still glad it did. I’ve never been a “princess,” but I definitely had a kind of entitlement mentality and I had it bad, and it is very, very common among my age group. We are struggling, and it stinks, but many of us aren’t really ready to face our own role in the mess we’ve helped make for ourselves.

What borders on unscrupulous is how much financial aid packages can change after the freshman year. That is a bait-and-switch, most definitely, or it would be looked at as such in most areas of commerce. If there were a law that the package had to be renewed if the grades were at an agreed-upon level and the financial situation of the student hadn’t changed, I would be for that. It would make it far more realistic for families to consider the price tag of what the student was trying to do.

There are other things about “the industry” that also bear scrutiny, because financial aid debt is treated differently than other kinds of consumer loans in bankruptcy courts. Still, there is a long ways between charging that educational loans are sold and collected unfairly–I mean to charge that there may be an unjust “racket” going in the field of educational funding–and saying that higher education is a* human right*. I have no quarrel with saying it is a human right to expect just laws will protect the vulnerable from human predators, though.