Value of Non-Christian religions

[fbg36]

Hello, I’m new to the CAF and am amazed at the sheer volume and mixture of wisdom and, ah, not so wise postings. I hope this one doesn’t belong to the second category.

Some background …

I converted to Catholicism and was baptised long before I was actually ready, though there was real love in it. I was just very immature. Within a few years I fell away, and remained apostate for many, many years. During that time I got immersed in Buddhism, and the essential elements of Buddhism (mainly Zen) are still part of how I understand the marvel of being alive in the world. In fact, it was via Buddhist meditation and examination of conscience that I realized how important it was for me to come to terms with my old love in Catholicism – face it, be honest about it.

It was a hard journey back but I made it. In October of '99 I went to confession and communion (the first half-dozen or so holy communions after my return were very
powerful, they were life-changing), and now the center of my life is the Mass and certain parts of the Roman breviary.

Also, I do sitting meditation in the Zen way each morning and am learning to be alone in prayer with God without the using a lot of words, ideas, devotions, etc., that are useful and really important at other times.

Psalm 139 (138 in the Vulgate Bible) was my doorway back to the Church and is still a dear friend and guide. But that’s s another story. Anyway, I wonder if other people at this forum have had experience in non-Christian religion, and have benefited from it, and still draw from its insight and good sense.

To those who have a knee-jerk negative reaction to such ecumenical sharing I’d recommend reading the Nostra Aetate declaration of the Second Vatican Council (check out newadvent.org/library/docs_ec21na.htm ) and the thoughts of the archbishop who heads the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue ( Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue ).

Meantime, peace,

~ Frank

.

 

[crazzeto]

Welcome to CAF (fairly new m’self lol), and thanks for sharing! I totally agree, a lot of us knee jerk to “there’s no value in religion xyz, it’s all lies”… But is it? Or did God plant the seeds of truth in other religions pointing back to Christ?

An interesting story I learned from an Irish (for real) Priest on EWTN, a fact of Zoroatrianism which plays into the tradition that the 3 “kings” in the naitivity story were of that fatih. The founder of that faith made a prophacy several hundred (thousand?) years before Chirst’s birth, that a divine child would be born and that a new star would mark this event. Consequently many followers of that faith became accomplished astrominers, and looked for the new star. The 3 kings knew to come to Christ, because they had been watching the skys for that star!

Later, after the crusifixion St. John would run into them while preaching the gosple, and they would both convert and serve as powerful witnesses to the truth of the Gospel.

 

[mattwcu]

Isn’t communion with the Church wonderful? I’m glad you decided to come back and I know how difficult that road can be…

There is no value in non-Christian religions other than what is true in them and prepares their followers to receive the Gospel. The Truth in those religions is not because those religions have any value of themselves but because God has moved the hearts of the individuals closer to his truth Faith outside of which nobody can be saved.

Buddhism and Christianity are not compatible. One seeks to completely empty yourself and arrive at a state of nothingness, the other, Christianity seeks to completely fulfill yourself and arrive at a state of unity with the creator of everything. The ends are completely opposite.

Also, I do sitting meditation in the Zen way each morning and am learning to be alone in prayer with God without the using a lot of words, ideas, devotions, etc., that are useful and really important at other times.

Meditating for union with God is good. We don’t need a ton of words grow closer to God. Just be careful you aren’t really trying to be alone with yourself. Try picking one idea and meditate on that. Try picturing the beatific vision or walking with Christ. Read a Psalm and meditate on that. Pray the Rosary. But don’t just try to empty yourself.

I am a convert to the Church and I always tell people that the Presbyterians taught me to love God, the Catholics taught me how. There was good in the Presbyterian Church but it was not complete. Anything in that church that was good was Catholic.

:harp:

 

[fbg36]

^

Mattwcu wrote: (Oct. 27, 9:45 a.m.):

Buddhism and Christianity are not compatible. One seeks to completely empty
yourself and arrive at a state of nothingness, the other, Christianity seeks to
completely fulfill yourself and arrive at a state of unity with the creator of everything.
The ends are completely opposite.

==================================

I find that a lot of people misunderstand what’s meant by the striving for realization
of “emptiness” in Buddhism. It isn’t, as you say, an effort to arrive at nothingness.
It’s the intuition – based on common sense – that the world is in a constant state
of flux and change. Not a single thing remains the same from moment to moment.
In other words, things are empty of permanence, solidity, indestructibility. This includes
the day-to-day mind and the ego. There’s actually nothing to selfishly grasp and cling to.
So work of holiness begins with learning to let go, and to trust in something that’s
beyond impermanence – beyond death, really.

The intuition of emptiness can be seen as an intuition of God (though a Buddhist
might say it’s just the other way around). Anyway, this kind of seeing into the nature of
things is common in the major religions. Here’s a view from the book of Ecclesiastes
(Chapter One), in the Bible …

                                           The sun rises and the sun sets,
                                            and hurries back to where it rises.

                                           The wind blows to the south
                                            and turns to the north;
                                            round and round it goes,
                                            ever returning on its course.

                                            All streams flow into the sea,
                                            yet the sea is never full.
                                            To the place the streams come from,
                                            there they return again.

                                            All things are wearisome,
                                            more than one can say.
                                            The eye never has enough of seeing,
                                            nor the ear its fill of hearing.

                                            What has been will be again,
                                            what has been done will be done again;
                                            there is nothing new under the sun.

                                            Is there anything of which one can say,
                                            "Look! This is something new"?
                                             It was here already, long ago;
                                             it was here before our time.

As to whether Buddhism and Christianity are “incompatible”, that’s a private judgment.
On the surface – the level of straightforward popular religion – they seem very
different from one another, and are. But up close, seen with compassion and
“emptiness”, God appears to be at work.

Just for the record, here’s a snippet from the Vatican II declaration concerning the
Church and non-Christian religions (Nostra Aetate – "In Our Age) :

POPE PAUL VI
OCTOBER 28, 1965

“Thus in Hinduism, men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an inexhaustible abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry. They seek freedom from the anguish of our human condition either through ascetical practices or profound meditation or a flight to God with love and trust. Again, Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing “ways,” comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men.”

.

 

[Publisher]

A Quaker quote from John Woolman concerning other religions…I like this quote…

"The end of words (even of Christ’s own directions in the days of His flesh) is to turn men to the holy life and power from whence the words came.

There is a principle which is pure, placed in the human mind, which in different places and ages hath had different names. It is, however, pure and proceeds from God. It is deep and inward, confined to no forms of religion nor excluded from any, where the heart stands in perfect sincerity. In whomsoever this takes root and grows, of what nation soever they become brethren in the best sense of the expression."

 

[rossum]

Isn’t communion with the Church wonderful? I’m glad you decided to come back and I know how difficult that road can be…

I am glad that fbg36 has found a suitable path.

Buddhism and Christianity are not compatible. One seeks to completely empty yourself and arrive at a state of nothingness, the other, Christianity seeks to completely fulfill yourself and arrive at a state of unity with the creator of everything. The ends are completely opposite.

Buddhist ‘emptiness’ is not nothingness; it is a common error to mistake the two. Buddhism is the Middle Way between “everything is real” and “everything is unreal”. A common illustration is a mirage. A mirage is not real - there is no real water in a mirage. A mirage is not unreal (nothingness) - nothingness does not look like water, it looks like nothingness. A mirage is empty, it looks like something but it is actually not what it appears to be.

Or in a more philosophical vein:The emptiness of emptiness is the fact that not even emptiness exists ultimately, that it is also dependent, conventional, nominal, and in the end it is just the everydayness of the everyday. Penetrating to the depths of being, we find ourselves back on the surface of things and so discover that there is nothing, after all, beneath those deceptive surfaces. Moreover, what is deceptive about them is simply the fact that we assume ontological depth lurking just beneath.

rossum

 

[mattwcu]

Buddhism and Catholicism are not compatible. It is very simple. It is also a misuse of Nostra Aetate to think it teaches that we as Catholics are supposed to go out and use non-Catholic religious techniques because they “reflect the truth”.

Jesus Christ is the Truth. And that truth is unchanging and not in a state of flux. Also the Church and her teachings, which are Christs, are not in flux.

Here are two resources on alternative religions related to Christianity:

ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/zaltreligions.HTM

and

Jesus Christ bearer of the Water of Life from the Vatican:

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PCCPCIDA.HTM

I would urge caution to anyone using non-Catholic religious practices. Many religious have fallen away or at least into error by using them. This is a bad experiment for many.

@fbg36:

It doesn’t seem like you are doing this to dissent from the Church or Christ. Be careful and make sure you stay in touch with a good orthodox priest about what you are doing. The answers are in the Church, not outside.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Hello, I’m new to the CAF and am amazed at the sheer volume and mixture of wisdom and, ah, not so wise postings. I hope this one doesn’t belong to the second category.

Some background …

I converted to Catholicism and was baptised long before I was actually ready, though there was real love in it. I was just very immature. Within a few years I fell away, and remained apostate for many, many years. During that time I got immersed in Buddhism, and the essential elements of Buddhism (mainly Zen) are still part of how I understand the marvel of being alive in the world. In fact, it was via Buddhist meditation and examination of conscience that I realized how important it was for me to come to terms with my old love in Catholicism – face it, be honest about it.

It was a hard journey back but I made it. In October of '99 I went to confession and communion (the first half-dozen or so holy communions after my return were very
powerful, they were life-changing), and now the center of my life is the Mass and certain parts of the Roman breviary.

Also, I do sitting meditation in the Zen way each morning and am learning to be alone in prayer with God without the using a lot of words, ideas, devotions, etc., that are useful and really important at other times.

Psalm 139 (138 in the Vulgate Bible) was my doorway back to the Church and is still a dear friend and guide. But that’s s another story. Anyway, I wonder if other people at this forum have had experience in non-Christian religion, and have benefited from it, and still draw from its insight and good sense.

To those who have a knee-jerk negative reaction to such ecumenical sharing I’d recommend reading the Nostra Aetate declaration of the Second Vatican Council (check out newadvent.org/library/docs_ec21na.htm ) and the thoughts of the archbishop who heads the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue ( Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue ).Meantime, peace,~ Frank.

Frank:

Welcome to CAF! :clapping:

I am a non-Catholic Christian, with great respect for Catholicism; and I love CAF.

Your post is very interesting; and I think you have opened up a very good topic.

I would be very careful that you are not mixing a “dash of paganism” with your new found love of the Catholic Church.

I know from my own experience, that it is easier than some may think, to make a wrong turn (did that in a brief membership in the LDS Church). It can be a long way home.

I do see a risk in meditation. If you are meditating on God/Trinity or meditating on God’s Word–that is a wonderful and powerful thing.

However, if your meditation lacks focus, you may be at risk of encountering spirits who would mislead you. Meditation can easily become a type of self-hypnosis—that can make you vulnerable to dangerous things.

I would really pray that God will show you how to let go of all things non-Christian; and guide you and protect you in meditation.

Remember the battle exists in the spiritual realm.

Ephesians 6:11-13 (ESV):

11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm.

Anna

 

[fbg36]

^

Thanks, Anna and others, for your thoughts.

I want to clear up some wrong ideas about Zen, especially as it’s understood and practiced
in the West. Zen’s not a “religion” but more a therapy or philosophy. It’s about breaking out of
a dreamy, careless, distracted mind – in other words, about waking up. Zen meditation can
be incorporated into anybody’s religious practice. Many, many Catholics and people of other
faiths make use of Zen training. I first learned Zen meditation (25 years ago) at a practice
center in midtown New York, and I sat next to a Franciscan priest. A longtime devoted
member of that center was a nun.

Zen practice helps a person to reawaken to the wonder and concreteness of the ordinary
world and one’s place in it. And it’s quite down to earth. Simply drinking tea with mindfulness,
or sweeping a floor, or watching grass and leaves blow in the wind – without opinion and
judgment. As moments of direct experience these things need no rationale, they don’t need
recounting. An old Zen saying is: “When pointing at the moon, don’t mistake the finger for
the moon.”

In a way it’s a recapturing of the mind of childhood (but not childishly!). It’s the beholding of
everything with a kind of original innocence, and I think this is what Christ had in mind when
he said (Matthew 19:14), “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the
kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

Such as these … that’s the point. Anyway, an example of Zen combined with Catholicism can
be found at a zendo (Zen meditation center) in New Jersey run by a Jesuit priest. Check out
kennedyzen.tripod.com/

Peace,

~ Frank

P.S. The issue of Buddhism per se is another matter, though I feel at home with it too.

.

kennedyzen.tripod.com/

 

[StormSurfer]

I am kinda lost on the meaning of the Thread, but I think it is, do religions other then Christianity have value? Well, that is a matter of opinoin if it’s to the individual. If your referring to discovery, then of course. Their have been many inventors/discoveres who were not Christians, they could have been anything. Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh, Taoist, Shintoist, Confuciust, anything.

In my opinion, every religion matters. It has people in it, and people matter, so, there ya go. That is my opinion though, some could say that Taoism means nothing, well, too bad for them I suppose. That is their opinion, nothing more. If you spend your life valuing everyone else s opinion, your not gonna be very happy unless your surrounded by positive people constantly.

 

[rossum]

I do see a risk in meditation. If you are meditating on God/Trinity or meditating on God’s Word–that is a wonderful and powerful thing.

However, if your meditation lacks focus, you may be at risk of encountering spirits who would mislead you. Meditation can easily become a type of self-hypnosis—that can make you vulnerable to dangerous things.

There are indeed dangers in meditation, and Buddhism is aware of themeople long for big thrills. Peak experiences. Some people come to Zen expecting that Enlightenment will be the Ultimate Peak Experience. The Mother of All Peak Experiences. But real enlightenment is the most ordinary of the ordinary. Once I had an amazing vision. I saw myself transported through time and space. Millions, no, billions, trillions, Godzillions of years passed. Not figuratively, but literally. Whizzed by. I found myself at the very rim of time and space, a vast giant being composed of the living minds and bodies of every thing that ever was. It was an incredibly moving experience. Exhilarating. I was high for weeks. Finally I told Nishijima Sensei about it . He said it was nonsense. Just my imagination. I can’t tell you how that made me feel. Imagination? This was as real an experience as any I’ve ever had. I just about cried. Later on that day I was eating a tangerine. I noticed how incredibly lovely a thing it was. So delicate. So amazingly orange. So very tasty. So I told Nishijima about that. That experience, he said, was enlightenment.

You need a teacher like that. The world needs lots more teachers like that. Countless teachers would have interpreted my experience as a merging of my Atman with God, as a portent of great and wonderful things, would have praised my spiritual growth and given me pointers on how to go even further. And I would have been suckered right in to that, let me tell you! Woulda fallen for it hook line and sinker, boy howdy. If a teacher doesn’t shatter your illusions he’s doing you no favors at all.

• Zen is Boring
  One of the advantages of meditating within a tradition, such as Zen or Catholic Monasticism is that there are experts available who have been there and done that and can point out the potential errors and pitfalls.

rossum

 

[Siddhartha]

The main danger with Buddhist meditation is that you might wake up.

 

[Anna_Scott]

There are indeed dangers in meditation, and Buddhism is aware of themeople long for big thrills. Peak experiences. Some people come to Zen expecting that Enlightenment will be the Ultimate Peak Experience. The Mother of All Peak Experiences. But real enlightenment is the most ordinary of the ordinary. Once I had an amazing vision. I saw myself transported through time and space. Millions, no, billions, trillions, Godzillions of years passed. Not figuratively, but literally. Whizzed by. I found myself at the very rim of time and space, a vast giant being composed of the living minds and bodies of every thing that ever was. It was an incredibly moving experience. Exhilarating. I was high for weeks. Finally I told Nishijima Sensei about it . He said it was nonsense. Just my imagination. I can’t tell you how that made me feel. Imagination? This was as real an experience as any I’ve ever had. I just about cried. Later on that day I was eating a tangerine. I noticed how incredibly lovely a thing it was. So delicate. So amazingly orange. So very tasty. So I told Nishijima about that. That experience, he said, was enlightenment.

You need a teacher like that. The world needs lots more teachers like that. Countless teachers would have interpreted my experience as a merging of my Atman with God, as a portent of great and wonderful things, would have praised my spiritual growth and given me pointers on how to go even further. And I would have been suckered right in to that, let me tell you! Woulda fallen for it hook line and sinker, boy howdy. If a teacher doesn’t shatter your illusions he’s doing you no favors at all.

• Zen is Boring
  One of the advantages of meditating within a tradition, such as Zen or Catholic Monasticism is that there are experts available who have been there and done that and can point out the potential errors and pitfalls.

rossum

rossum:

Very interesting post.

Do you believe meditation can open one to the dangers of dark spirits?

Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

^

Thanks, Anna and others, for your thoughts.

I want to clear up some wrong ideas about Zen, especially as it’s understood and practiced
in the West. Zen’s not a “religion” but more a therapy or philosophy. It’s about breaking out of
a dreamy, careless, distracted mind – in other words, about waking up. Zen meditation can
be incorporated into anybody’s religious practice. Many, many Catholics and people of other
faiths make use of Zen training. I first learned Zen meditation (25 years ago) at a practice
center in midtown New York, and I sat next to a Franciscan priest. A longtime devoted
member of that center was a nun.

Zen practice helps a person to reawaken to the wonder and concreteness of the ordinary
world and one’s place in it. And it’s quite down to earth. Simply drinking tea with mindfulness,
or sweeping a floor, or watching grass and leaves blow in the wind – without opinion and
judgment. As moments of direct experience these things need no rationale, they don’t need
recounting. An old Zen saying is: “When pointing at the moon, don’t mistake the finger for
the moon.”

In a way it’s a recapturing of the mind of childhood (but not childishly!). It’s the beholding of
everything with a kind of original innocence, and I think this is what Christ had in mind when
he said (Matthew 19:14), “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the
kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

Such as these … that’s the point. Anyway, an example of Zen combined with Catholicism can
be found at a zendo (Zen meditation center) in New Jersey run by a Jesuit priest. Check out
kennedyzen.tripod.com/

Peace,

~ Frank

P.S. The issue of Buddhism per se is another matter, though I feel at home with it too.
kennedyzen.tripod.com/

Frank: I appreciate your response. However, I feel compelled to ask, once more, to remember the battle exists in the spiritual realm.

Ephesians 6:11-13 (ESV):

11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm.

Anna

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Anyway, I wonder if other people at this forum have had experience in non-Christian religion, and have benefited from it, and still draw from its insight and good sense.

I was briefly Muslim for a point of my life (longer story there, most people who know me on this forum already know the whole story) - did I benefit from it? I daresay I almost suffered from it, denying Christ’s divinity and His supremacy as my Lord, and being separated from Him. I’ve finally found peace in Him, and I’m thankful to the Lord for that. If I had any benefit, I would say that it taught me Muslims, as a people, are simply people. Sitting with families during the breaking of the Ramadan fast showed me how human they were, and people who turn Muslims into caricatures simply sicken me. Another benefit would be that I am able to open dialogue here with Muslims on this forum and quote from the hadith and Koran without finding it necessary to distort the truth or present presupposition

Speaking more generally, I think the only true benefit that other faiths can have for a Christian is to allow them to open dialogue, although this will of course require some research; a Christian should not speak with a Hindu on Hinduism unless they’ve researched into it, and I tell Christians to research Islam before speaking to Muslims on their religion. C.S. Lewis once said that Christians are more tolerable than atheists because, while atheists deny any truth in religion, Christians admit that there is some truth in religion. This is not to say we should fall into the heresy of universalism (for Christ says that He is the truth, life and way in John 14:6), but that every Christian can recognize certain truths in other faiths, such as for example the presence of a Creator. The problem is helping other religious faithful decipher who that true Creator is.

Paul found use of the shrine to the “unknown god” in Greece, basically telling the people, “You know that ‘unknown god’ you worship? Guess what - I know His name, and I bring His message for you.” Fulton Sheen used this passage as an example for how Roman Catholic missionaries can enter into dialogue. Whereas most religions are men reaching out to God, Christianity is God reaching down to man, and it is the role of Christians to be instruments of that arm. That is the greatest use of non-Christian religions.

 

[rossum]

Do you believe meditation can open one to the dangers of dark spirits?

Meditations helps you to see things. Some of what you see is illusion. Some of what you see is useful to you. Some of what you see is neutral. Some of what you see is deleterious.

All the spirits of the Hells will eventually attain nirvana so the idea of a “dark spirit” is not the same in Buddhism as in Christianity. In Buddhism all living beings will eventually attain nirvana, even Mara who is the closest equivalent to Satan.

At worst a ‘dark spirit’ can only delay your entry into nirvana.

rossum

 

[Anna_Scott]

Meditations helps you to see things. Some of what you see is illusion. Some of what you see is useful to you. Some of what you see is neutral. Some of what you see is deleterious.

All the spirits of the Hells will eventually attain nirvana so the idea of a “dark spirit” is not the same in Buddhism as in Christianity. In Buddhism all living beings will eventually attain nirvana, even Mara who is the closest equivalent to Satan.

At worst a ‘dark spirit’ can only delay your entry into nirvana.

rossum

Rossum:

Thank you for sharing this information.

I have not studied Buddhism. Need to add that to my list of religious studies.

In Christ,
Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

I was briefly Muslim for a point of my life (longer story there, most people who know me on this forum already know the whole story) - did I benefit from it? I daresay I almost suffered from it, denying Christ’s divinity and His supremacy as my Lord, and being separated from Him. I’ve finally found peace in Him, and I’m thankful to the Lord for that. If I had any benefit, I would say that it taught me Muslims, as a people, are simply people. Sitting with families during the breaking of the Ramadan fast showed me how human they were, and people who turn Muslims into caricatures simply sicken me. Another benefit would be that I am able to open dialogue here with Muslims on this forum and quote from the hadith and Koran without finding it necessary to distort the truth or present presupposition

Speaking more generally, I think the only true benefit that other faiths can have for a Christian is to allow them to open dialogue, although this will of course require some research; a Christian should not speak with a Hindu on Hinduism unless they’ve researched into it, and I tell Christians to research Islam before speaking to Muslims on their religion. C.S. Lewis once said that Christians are more tolerable than atheists because, while atheists deny any truth in religion, Christians admit that there is some truth in religion. This is not to say we should fall into the heresy of universalism (for Christ says that He is the truth, life and way in John 14:6), but that every Christian can recognize certain truths in other faiths, such as for example the presence of a Creator. The problem is helping other religious faithful decipher who that true Creator is.

Paul found use of the shrine to the “unknown god” in Greece, basically telling the people, “You know that ‘unknown god’ you worship? Guess what - I know His name, and I bring His message for you.” Fulton Sheen used this passage as an example for how Roman Catholic missionaries can enter into dialogue. Whereas most religions are men reaching out to God, Christianity is God reaching down to man, and it is the role of Christians to be instruments of that arm. That is the greatest use of non-Christian religions.

Byzantine_Wolf:

I sense you are a very wise Christian.

What are your thoughts on meditation–see my post to Frank, below:

Frank:

Welcome to CAF! :clapping:

I am a non-Catholic Christian, with great respect for Catholicism; and I love CAF.

Your post is very interesting; and I think you have opened up a very good topic.

I would be very careful that you are not mixing a “dash of paganism” with your new found love of the Catholic Church.

I know from my own experience, that it is easier than some may think, to make a wrong turn (did that in a brief membership in the LDS Church). It can be a long way home.

I do see a risk in meditation. If you are meditating on God/Trinity or meditating on God’s Word–that is a wonderful and powerful thing.

However, if your meditation lacks focus, you may be at risk of encountering spirits who would mislead you. Meditation can easily become a type of self-hypnosis—that can make you vulnerable to dangerous things.

I would really pray that God will show you how to let go of all things non-Christian; and guide you and protect you in meditation.

Remember the battle exists in the spiritual realm.

Ephesians 6:11-13 (ESV):

11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm.

Anna

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Byzantine_Wolf:

I sense you are a very wise Christian.

You made me laugh. Not at you, but I’m only 25 years old, and don’t see myself as “wise.” I only repeat what I read, and pray I become a tool of God rather than the devil.

What are your thoughts on meditation–see my post to Frank, below:

I think Christians have to be very careful because what “meditation” can mean to us and what “meditation” can mean in other religions are sometimes wildly different things. This is why many modern-day Protestants read about the Desert Fathers “meditating” and think that the Desert Fathers are ripping off eastern pagan faiths when, in fact, the definitions used by the two groups are incompatible. Meditation for Christians is more about internal review on our relationship with God. It’s about focused prayer on what sins we have, and seeking to tame our flesh and intellect. This is why the Roman Catholics use the rosary and the Eastern Orthodox use the prayer rope: to focus our attention on our being and direct it towards God, fighting against the distraction brought about by the demons. In this manner we realize what it is that separates us from God and begin our warfare to drive it out. So in a way I think you’re right when you say meditation without focus, especially without focus towards our Trinitarian God, is a dangerous thing. Someone in my family recently told me about how she dabbled in something called “The Way,” and how she meditated with a prayer towards the angel Raphael and healed her arm pains - all of which is New Age nonsense with a few Bible personalities thrown in, much like the Gnostics took a few names from the Bible and created a new pagan faith. Such things a Christian should stay far away from.

Overall I don’t think the very idea of meditation is a bad thing, and I believe if used in the traditional (not modernized) Christian context it is fine. However, modern-day Christians have to be careful with going on a rampage and intermixing faiths together. A lot of Emergent Church folks do this, and it hurts our path to God. As Christ said, no one can serve two masters (Matt 6:24).

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Most of this thread so far has been focused on Buddhism, but there are other religions out there that have been quite influential. And none moreso than one in particular: Judaism.

A few years back I looked into Judaism quite heavily. To say that Judaism brings no value to Christianity is almost like saying a mother brings no value to her child. At one point I was seriously thinking about converting to Orthodox Judaism, but further reflection on my part stopped me from doing so. My main reason was that deep down, I didn’t think I would be a very good Jew (as in following the mitzvah).

However, that time spent looking into Judaism is largely responsible for my long path back to God. Reading the Scriptures with a Jewish understanding of them really helped in bringing them into perspective, and made me realize how out of sorts my mind was when it came to truly understanding Christianity. My upbringing as a Fundamental Baptist instilled in me a severely outdated and simplistic understanding of God and the Scriptures. I was quite surprised to find out that Jews have a more developed understanding than many Fundamentalist Christians. This experience is what ultimately helped open my eyes and my heart to Catholicism. I see Catholicism having more in common with Judaism than with Christian Fundamentalism.