Variety within Catholicism

[Eliise789]

Hi!

Im new here and have lots of questions about Catholicism, Christianity and faith in general.
If the questions have already been answered elsewhere, I would be grateful for links.

How large is the variety among worldviews and practices of Catholics?
What is the level of flexibility of the relationship between personal faith and Catholicism?
What joins different Catholics and where are the limits?
When can you say that someone who says they`re Catholic, actually is not?

It would be really great if you could bring examples from real life or imaginary situations and reflect on your own understanding
Thank you!

 

[aidanbradypop]

Hi!

Im new here and have lots of questions about Catholicism, Christianity and faith in general.
If the questions have already been answered elsewhere, I would be grateful for links.

How large is the variety among worldviews and practices of Catholics?
What is the level of flexibility of the relationship between personal faith and Catholicism?
What joins different Catholics and where are the limits?
When can you say that someone who says they`re Catholic, actually is not?

It would be really great if you could bring examples from real life or imaginary situations and reflect on your own understanding
Thank you!

How large is the variety among worldviews and practices of Catholics?—I am not sure exactly what you mean by “variety” among Catholics. There are different rites within Catholicism. You have Eastern Catholics and the Western Church.

What is the level of flexibility of the relationship between personal faith and Catholicism?—Our personal faith should never come into conflict of what the Church teaches. As Catholics, we submit to the Church that Christ established on earth. We can have a personal relationship with Christ but our faith should always be rooted in the Church of Christ.

What joins different Catholics and where are the limits? Again, not sure what you mean by different. There is One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

When can you say that someone who says they`re Catholic, actually is not? Actions speak louder than words. I am not one that proclaims someone is not or is Catholic. If someone is Catholic, they should abide by Church teachings and live faithful as a servant of God.

 

[TomFromMD]

We can have a personal relationship with Christ…

If a Catholic doesn’t have a personal relationship with Christ, they’re doing it wrong

That said, Catholics put more emphesis on ALSO having a communal relationship with God than many other Christian groups. That communal relationship is the Church.

To the original poster - there’s a lot of variety in who consider themselves to be Catholic, and the level of adherence to Church teaching. On this website, you’re going to find that the vast majority of people are very orthodox, and many are dismissive of those who are less orthodox. Out in the world, you’ll find this to be less the case.

 

[Eliise789]

By variety I mean people who consider themselves Catholic and whose interpretation of the Church`s teachings and the ways in which being a Catholic in daily life differ in some areas.

For example, I read here that some Catholics believe everyone should be Roman Catholic while others believe denomination is not the most important thing. To me this seems like a rather big difference that may influence how one relates to people of other denominations around them.

I havent travelled much and dont know many Catholics from other countries but I suppose Catholics in Italy and in Finland or Africa could have in some aspects more differences of what is considered crucial in daily life than Catholics and their next-door agnostic neighbours, due to cultural and social background.
Also, next-door Catholics in the same country could have severe disagreements in areas they would agree with people of other denominations, like on the question, should everyone be of one specific denomination and if so, what should be done about acquiantances that are not in that denomination.

What I want to know is, what are the common lines that all Catholics everywhere have. Is there something about which it could be said that being Catholic means … that could not be said about anyone of any other denomination?

 

[1ke]

Ok, the first thing for you to understand about the Catholic faith is the concept of objective truth. Doctrines of the Church are truth, revealed by Christ. The Catholic Church rejects relativism as a heresy.

So, the idea that Catholic A can hold position A and Catholic B can hold position B and each are “true” or “ok” for that person is false. Either Jesus is God or he is not. Either contraception is intrinsically evil, or it’s not. Either abortion is the murder of a child, or it’s not.

The Church teaches Jesus is God, contraception is evil, and abortion is murder. These are truths, not opinions, not options, not “viewpoints”.

If the Church teaches abortion is murder, it is objectively true. If Catholic A holds the position that abortion is not murder and should be legal, that person is in error. To the extent they willfully disagree with the Church, they are also in sin.

Are there Catholics that hold a diversity of opinions on things the Church teach doctrinally as objectively true? Yes.

Is that OK? No.

Now, spirituality is a different matter, not one of faith and morals and objective truth. Can Catholics have diversity in how they pray, what acts of mercy and charity they personally engage in, how they grow in their relationship with Christ? Yes, absolutely.

Can Catholic A prefer a charismatic prayer style while Catholic B prefers contemplative prayer? Yes.

A person who is baptized into or received into the Church by a profession of faith is a Catholic. To the degree that they live out their faith in communion with and assent to the teachings of the Church, they are either a Catholic growing in holiness or they are a Catholic in serious sin and error. Where any particular person is on that continuum at any given time varies.

 

[eamonnroma]

Ok, the first thing for you to understand about the Catholic faith is the concept of objective truth. Doctrines of the Church are truth, revealed by Christ. The Catholic Church rejects relativism as a heresy.

So, the idea that Catholic A can hold position A and Catholic B can hold position B and each are “true” or “ok” for that person is false. Either Jesus is God or he is not. Either contraception is intrinsically evil, or it’s not. Either abortion is the murder of a child, or it’s not.

The Church teaches Jesus is God, contraception is evil, and abortion is murder. These are truths, not opinions, not options, not “viewpoints”.

If the Church teaches abortion is murder, it is objectively true. If Catholic A holds the position that abortion is not murder and should be legal, that person is in error. To the extent they willfully disagree with the Church, they are also in sin.

Are there Catholics that hold a diversity of opinions on things the Church teach doctrinally as objectively true? Yes.

Is that OK? No.

Now, spirituality is a different matter, not one of faith and morals and objective truth. Can Catholics have diversity in how they pray, what acts of mercy and charity they personally engage in, how they grow in their relationship with Christ? Yes, absolutely.

Can Catholic A prefer a charismatic prayer style while Catholic B prefers contemplative prayer? Yes.

A person who is baptized into or received into the Church by a profession of faith is a Catholic. To the degree that they live out their faith in communion with and assent to the teachings of the Church, they are either a Catholic growing in holiness or they are a Catholic in serious sin and error. Where any particular person is on that continuum at any given time varies.

A far as I was aware most doctrines of dogmas of the Church were arrived at by subsequent Councils of the Church and not revealed by Christ

 

[1ke]

A far as I was aware most doctrines of dogmas of the Church were arrived at by subsequent Councils of the Church and not revealed by Christ

Divine Revelation comes from God. Councils can confirm doctrine, explain doctrine, etc, but not create it.

 

[sw85]

Unity in essentials, liberty in non-essentials is the general practical outlook of the Church. Hence there are something like two dozen liturgical rites which, I don’t believe, even sufficiently account for permitted variation within those rites.

“The essentials” is, basically, dogma, doctrine, and communion with the Pope.

 

[donna369]

A far as I was aware most doctrines of dogmas of the Church were arrived at by subsequent Councils of the Church and not revealed by Christ

it was my thought that doctriines, dogmas, and rules/laws of the Church derived from the Councils of the Church were revealed to the Councils through their contemplation and prayer as well as speach, guided by Holy Spirit thus giving it credibility and authority.

 

[Eliise789]

If the Church teaches abortion is murder, it is objectively true. If Catholic A holds the position that abortion is not murder and should be legal, that person is in error. To the extent they willfully disagree with the Church, they are also in sin.

Abortion being a murder is not true because the Church teaches it, but because it is, regardless of what the Church would say. One doesnt have to be Catholic to know that. I know that in my heart (+ its a biological fact) and I`m rather sure my mother, who is an atheist, also sees it that way.

I believe there is danger in doing things a certain way because “the Church says so” or because "its written in the Bible" without knowing something to be true in ones heart. It could create situations where teachings are taken out of context or applied to support evil motivations, as in keeping children away from grandparents that are not of the same denomination, really because it is emotionally easier for the parents, not for the children`s benefit. Or when “spreading faith” to acquire new areas of material and worldly power.

 

[1ke]

Abortion being a murder is not true because the Church teaches it, but because it is, regardless of what the Church would say. One doesnt have to be Catholic to know that. I know that in my heart (+ its a biological fact) and I`m rather sure my mother, who is an atheist, also sees it that way.

Well, certainly, the Church teaches it because it is true and not the other way around. God revealed moral truths in the Ten Commandments.

Jesus is God, which is not knowable from nature alone. The Church teaches it because it is true. The Church knows it is true because God revealed it.

If only it were true that abortion = murder were intuitively obvious. But there are millions of people who profess religion, and atheists too, who will tell you that it is not murder. Some will even say that while it is murder it should be allowed. It is not so “obvious” as you state. If it were, there would be no abortion.

I believe there is danger in doing things a certain way because “the Church says so” or because "its written in the Bible" without knowing something to be true in ones heart.

We are certainly to form our conscience and learn and grow, and faith and reason are not incompatible. But, our “heart” can deceive us. The Church is the sure norm.

It could create situations where teachings are taken out of context or applied to support evil motivations, as in keeping children away from grandparents that are not of the same denomination, really because it is emotionally easier for the parents, not for the children`s benefit. Or when “spreading faith” to acquire new areas of material and worldly power.

Yes, fortunately neither of those is Church teaching.

 

[Eliise789]

Thank you for your answers.

We are certainly to form our conscience and learn and grow, and faith and reason are not incompatible. But, our “heart” can deceive us. The Church is the sure norm.

This requires clarification what is meant by heart. To me, heart is the part that connects us directly to God, not depending on what we might intellectually believe about the existence or nature of God. It works the same way for Christians, Muslims, Hinduists, Taoists, atheists, agnostics, pagans… Heart knows something to be right or wrong, recognizes, whether ideas come from a place of love or fear, loves. Mind is the part that falls in love with ideas, analyzes, makes and follows rules, can go awfully far and make things much more complicated than the simplicity of heart. The problem is that a lot of people are not connected to their heart, they live in their heads, so to say. Still, it takes a lot of numbing and diverting to ignore the physically uncomfortable feeling of doing something one feels to be wrong but intellectually believes is the only way.