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mark_a
Guest
And don’t forget about the sperm antibodies that cause dimentia.
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dulcissima
Guest
The OP already told them the facts before the husband had the vasectomy. Since the friend was not persuaded by the facts, to continue to bring them up would seem like judging. I think what ltbpoe43 suggested, to stay away from the topic, is what would be best in this situation. This couple is not Catholic, and does not have all of the understandings that we as Catholics have. They did their best to make an informed decision, and there isn’t really anything the OP can do about it now that it has been done. So, it probably is best just to avoid the topic altogether. If the couple brings it up, I would just say that I have a different view on the situation but that I understand that they were doing the best that they knew how.Yeah, that is a great idea.
Now when another friend comes to you and says that they are pregnant and considering abortion, just stay silent. It is personal, so just pray for them.
Oh and if another friend is talking about their use of ABC and how they think tha the Catholic Church and Her teachings on NFP are “so out there” just smile and say “well that is your personal choice” and go home and pray for them.
When you find out that your best friend is wanting to cheat on thier spouse, stay silent, why say something it is they who will have to answer.
As Fr. Frank Pavone says “why are we silent, so much?” Why cannot you not express your opinion or (heaven forbid) speak the Truth?
Giving someone the facts is not judging. Caring about someone’s soul is not judging. Being a good Catholic (or Christian) is not judging.
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Mirror_Mirror
Guest
"dulcissima:
The fact that they are not Catholic does not factor in here, they are “Christian” and were talking NFP classes
so I feel that it would be perfectly fine to talk to them about it and not offend them.
Beside all of that the title of the thread is “Vasectomized how to talk” (bold mine) so I think that OP wants to talk about it.
Please note that she said “I know that they will bring it up” therefore the topic will be discussed. Irregardless of if she would rather avoid it or not, it should still be mentioned if they are “close friends” that they “see all the time.”
The fact that they are not Catholic does not factor in here, they are “Christian” and were talking NFP classes
so I feel that it would be perfectly fine to talk to them about it and not offend them.Beside all of that the title of the thread is “Vasectomized how to talk” (bold mine) so I think that OP wants to talk about it.
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Chovy
Guest
Yikes. I didn’t know that. Not that my DH was considering it anyway, but I now have another arrow in my quiver for discussions with friends/relatives.
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dulcissima
Guest
The OP says “I am a type of personality that would rather avoid talking to them then getting into any sort of heated discussion.” So, I think she could use some reassurance that it would be perfectly alright to avoid talking about it since it is after the fact. She already fulfilled her obligation by presenting them with the facts before the vasectomy. If she would prefer to avoid the discussion or find a way to end the conversation as quickly as possible before it becomes heated, that is not a problem. She is not morally obligated to continue the discussion at this point. I think coming up with a response that indicates that she does not want to continue to debate the matter would probably best for her.Please note that she said “I know that they will bring it up” therefore the topic will be discussed. Irregardless of if she would rather avoid it or not, it should still be mentioned if they are “close friends” that they “see all the time.”
The fact that they are not Catholic does not factor in here, they are “Christian” and were talking NFP classes
Beside all of that the title of the thread is “Vasectomized how to talk” (bold mine) so I think that OP wants to talk about it.
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Jay2
Guest
I agree. You have stated your position (as a Catholic), offered information, and alternatives. Now it’s time to leave it to them.
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mesquite_magic
Guest
I understand what you are saying, but, who are we to force our beliefs on other people. The OP has already stated that this couple is not Catholic. They have talked to their religous Elder and he’s told them that it’s ok with their religion. That’s the end of the story.Yeah, that is a great idea.
Now when another friend comes to you and says that they are pregnant and considering abortion, just stay silent. It is personal, so just pray for them.
Oh and if another friend is talking about their use of ABC and how they think tha the Catholic Church and Her teachings on NFP are “so out there” just smile and say “well that is your personal choice” and go home and pray for them.
When you find out that your best friend is wanting to cheat on thier spouse, stay silent, why say something it is they who will have to answer.
As Fr. Frank Pavone says “why are we silent, so much?” Why cannot you not express your opinion or (heaven forbid) speak the Truth?
Giving someone the facts is not judging. Caring about someone’s soul is not judging. Being a good Catholic (or Christian) is not judging.
It sounds as if OP has already shared her concerns with this couple. Sounds as if they listened to her advice about NFP, then they made a personal decision. OP should just leave it at that. My guess is that this couple, knowing OP’s stance, will not discuss it with her further.
OP, pray for them, then let it go.
Kim
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mamacita
Guest
**A close friend is getting a vascetomy today. They have four children, the youngest being a little over 6 months. We see them all of the time and my husband and I are just brewing with frustration and I have no idea what to say to them the next time we see them. I am so sad and upset over this - any suggestions? (Obviously we are praying for them)
NOTE: THE OP is looking for SUGGESTIONS!!! She also said she has no idea what to say to them the next time she sees them. Meaning that she is looking for advice on what to say, remember that when replying:thumbsup: **
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Lorik
Guest
Who are we to force our beliefs? It’s not so much forcing our beliefs as having enough grace(of course unmerited) to know what’s wrong is wrong. The Pope says it’s wrong and even if they don’t agree, like it or or not, the Pope is the head of all Christendom not just those of us who agree with him and identify ourselves as Catholic.
It doesn’t really matter if their elder said it was licit. He has no authority.
As far as the OP goes, I would say pray for them so the realize their mistake and that they ask for God’s forgiveness. When or if they would like to talk about it with you, speak the truth with love and kindness.
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johntkd
Guest
Give me a break I am sure that was a sarcastic remark. there is zero proof of anything such as that.if that was the case we would have a ton of priests running around not knowing whom or what they are or where they live…
my gosh the things people will come up with to get thier own views across. uise facts thats the best way to discourage someone, saying just one thing that has no fact will make the person you are telling it to seem as if everything you said was bogus when they find out the truth…
The fact is its against the church, some people can have a painful problem although much of that is mentally attributed from guilt BUT NOT ALL.of it.
as far as an increased cancer risk thier is no more increase than
abstaining periodically such as in the case of NFP. or a fridgid wife type thing.
some facts noone has mentioned here is the surgery itself although very simple can cause impotence which happens to thousands, can cause loss of feeling or sensitivity, can also effect drive. also as with any surgery at all you have a very real chance of developing a staff infection or “other” infection, that can also cause permanent problems. these are facts that should be considered,
I mean I dont know about most men maybe they have more trust than me but I am not ablout to let some guy slice me in that area where if he is off one eighth of an inch I am ruined for life, maybe most dont consider that part of it,
anyways my normally useless 2 cents worth
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Mirror_Mirror
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What are you talking about? Surely you are not implying that priests get vasectomies?
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mesquite_magic
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According to Catholics the Pope is the head of Christendom. Other religions don’t recognise him as such and therefore don’t subscribe to Catholic ideology. It is their belief that they are NOT sinning. For their belief system, their Elder is right.
Kim
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Lorik
Guest
According to the Bible the Pope is the head of Christendom. If some refuse to beleive it then that’s their choice. If something is true, it’s true. If I don’t beleive it’s true that doesn’t make it any less true. Same thing goes for things that are wrong. If it’s wrong it’s wrong. If it’s bad for us, it doesn’t matter if someone says it’s not. God will judge us according to the grace he has given us.
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mesquite_magic
Guest
Please show a passage from the Bible to support this statement.
Just because you believe something is true doesn’t make it so. What is wrong for us as Catholics is not wrong for those who don’t subscribe to our religious beliefs.
You are right. God will judge us. And ONLY God knows the truth in all of this. I honestly don’t believe God will point to a Baptist and tell him that because he didn’t follow the Pope he won’t get into heaven.
Kim
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luvmykids
Guest
Most priests I know don’t get vasectomies, since they shouldn’t be in any position to be getting anyone pregnant!
Not that I am saying that it causes dementia, cause I have never heard of that, but your body does produce antibodies to sperm when you have a vasectomy because the sperm are not suppose to be building up like they do when you get a vasectomy. When the tube is tied, where does the sperm go, after you ejaculate?Here is some info to think about:
"Cutting the cord which carries sperm has an obvious danger. The sperm,which must go some where, may leak into the body cavities. The body will react to the out-of-place sperm with an immune response, thus opening the door for many complication. After a vasectomy, sperm production remains the same:about 50,000 spermatozoa each minute. Having “no way out"these cells are either consumed by the body’s degenerate producing antigens or “foreign substances” These antigens infiltrate the bloodstream and cause the body to manufacture antibodies to defend itself against them. …The risk of prostate cancer in men who have had a vasectomy is more than that three times that of those who were not vasectomiezed.”
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dwc
Guest
Yeah, that is a great idea.
She already gave them the facts. They aren’t Catholic, they don’t follow the Church or the Pope. What should she do, beat them over the head with the catechism after the fact?
Leave it alone. IMO, to go further under these circumstances does more harm than good.
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Toni
Guest
I know so many men who have or have had prostrate cancer and have never had a vasectomy as much as I do not agree with a vasectomy I do not find this arguement to have any validity. Cancer is wide spread among us in many different areas of the body. I am sure estrogen, foods, pesticides (just to name a few) have something to do with the widespread of cancer.**Think about it, prostate cancer has become more evident also with the rise of vasectomies. Long ago, you never heard of prostate cancer, and men RARELY had vasectomies. NOw, it’s everywhere you go… …
Also if someone is not Catholic and there minister has already told them that it was ok all you can do is pray for them not judge them.
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johntkd
Guest
No not at all, that response got a lil messed up because it didnt contain what that person had responded to and that was basically that a person will get dimentia from all the sperm not leaving a mans body the Folk lore,tales etc just keep growingWhat are you talking about? Surely you are not implying that priests get vasectomies?
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johntkd
Guest
I have never seen such a thing in the BIBLE,
Please give a passage,verse etc.
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johntkd
Guest
I am sorry you have some things very mixed up, sperm not ejaculated is absorbed by the body this is something that is constantly happening within a mans body, By the MinuteMost priests I know don’t get vasectomies, since they shouldn’t be in any position to be getting anyone pregnant!
Here is some info to think about:
"Cutting the cord which carries sperm has an obvious danger. The sperm,which must go some where, may leak into the body cavities. The body will react to the out-of-place sperm with an immune response, thus opening the door for many complication. After a vasectomy, sperm production remains the same:about 50,000 spermatozoa each minute. Having “no way out"these cells are either consumed by the body’s degenerate producing antigens or “foreign substances” These antigens infiltrate the bloodstream and cause the body to manufacture antibodies to defend itself against them. …The risk of prostate cancer in men who have had a vasectomy is more than that three times that of those who were not vasectomiezed.”
as far as a “buildup” goes A man only has so much "storage space, this storage space will hold approximatly what the body can produce in 6 hours after that its all abosrbed but in a very neat way the old goes first to make room for the new, so with what you are trying to make people believe its just as dangerous to use NFP,or for a priest to be abstinent, or to not have sex at the minimum of every 5 to 6 hours… the basis people are using for the "sperm buildup is one based on a womans egg production, when a woman has her “tubes tied” thier is a buildup of eggs that hang around the tied area of the tubes, these takes years for the body to break down so there is a definite buildup in females But is dont cause a “burst or hemmorage”.
what people are trying to say about the mans sperm building up has zero value at all and is absolute Propaghanda yet again.
the male oragasm has absolutly nothing to do with the ( ill make this as easy to understand as possible) tubes the sperm travel thru that are tied off, when you tie them tubes all you are doing is making the production of said sperm reduce by making the body feel it is fully loaded, in which case the production reduces dramatically, yes it still constantly produces and absorbs but does reduce, a man having a vasectomy still “ejaculates” the idea behind it is no sperm are contained in the seminal fluids, however them lil critters can and do find other ways but thats a whole other topic in itself, anyways to make it simple the tubes that are tied off experience NO sudden pressures they are not like a firehose as I have seen one article about.
some ask can a man feel extra pain afterwards? sure just as a person has itches in an arm that was amputated years before,
much of that is mentally attributed to NOT all but much, as far as the pain going away after a reversal that would be mostly in the mind, because the increased scar tissue alone from a second surgery should have caused even extra discomfort.
Now personally as stated before I dont have enough trust in a DR to let him cut away a toe nail much less perform a high precision needed slice to avoid potential life long problems.
I am not even going to get into your added risk response as it has no facts behind it either
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