Vasectomy a sin?

[Andruschak]

As an 62 year old RCIA Candidate, sooner or later I am going to have to make that first confession. My current RCIA class, interested only in the Catechumans, is of zilch help.

Vasectomy. Had one in 1973, just so I could go on fornicating without the consequences of unwanted children. Was this a sin by the standards of the Church? And what do I do about it NOW, 33 years later? Penance or atonement or what?

Another problem. I have never regretted my decision not to have children. Does this make me still attached to the sin of vasectomy? If so, how do I get rid of it? I mean, in my heart of hearts. I can do the lip service easy enough,

 

[Della]

As an 62 year old RCIA Candidate, sooner or later I am going to have to make that first confession. My current RCIA class, interested only in the Catechumans, is of zilch help.

I’m sorry you’re RCIA experience hasn’t been helpful. At least you’ve got us, if that’s any consolation.

Vasectomy. Had one in 1973, just so I could go on fornicating without the consequences of unwanted children. Was this a sin by the standards of the Church? And what do I do about it NOW, 33 years later? Penance or atonement or what?

When you go to confession Father will give you penance for all your sins you confess. But, you are not required to reverse the vasectomy, if that is what you are asking.

Another problem. I have never regretted my decision not to have children. Does this make me still attached to the sin of vasectomy? If so, how do I get rid of it? I mean, in my heart of hearts. I can do the lip service easy enough,

Not wanting children is not a sin, but if you had been married as a Catholic and had artificially prevented pregnancy, you would have been guilty of sin. However, the Church does not teach that couples must have children, only that couples must be open to life, using NFP for grave cause, such as illness or poverty, etc.

 

[EBSSTF4]

Not wanting children is not a sin, but if you had been married as a Catholic and had artificially prevented pregnancy, you would have been guilty of sin. However, the Church does not teach that couples must have children, only that couples must be open to life, using NFP for grave cause, such as illness or poverty, etc.

If NFP is used selfishly to prevent pregnancy with no attention of ever having children it could be a Mortal Sin

CCC

2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality:

When it is a question of harmonizing married love with the responsible transmission of life, the morality of the behavior does not depend on sincere intention and evaluation of motives alone; but it must be determined by objective criteria, criteria drawn from the nature of the person and his acts criteria that respect the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love; this is possible only if the virtue of married chastity is practiced with sincerity of heart.156

 

[gardenswithkids]

Vasectomy. Had one in 1973, just so I could go on fornicating without the consequences of unwanted children. Was this a sin by the standards of the Church? And what do I do about it NOW, 33 years later? Penance or atonement or what?

Another problem. I have never regretted my decision not to have children. Does this make me still attached to the sin of vasectomy? If so, how do I get rid of it? I mean, in my heart of hearts. I can do the lip service easy enough,

Yes, fornication is a sin by the standards of the Church, with or without the vasectomy. The vasectomy is a related but separate sin. You don’t have to have your vasectomy reversed, (but if the fornication is still a problem then you need to work on stopping that. )

The sacrament of confession doesn’t require “perfect contrition” for your sins to be forgiven, but if you think you’re still attached to some of your sins, then confess that too when time comes for your first confession. The attachment to sin (i.e. fond memories of things that were wrong, etc.) can linger long after one has stopped the sinful behavior. Breaking attachments to sin comes as one grows closer to the Lord, and I think the sacramental graces and graces through a devout prayer life help a lot with that too. Whether or not you ever regret having not had children I can’t say, but hopefully as you grow closer to the Lord you will be able to regret how you misused the gift of sexuality.

 

[Mommyof02green]

pray, pray, pray…

Also talk to a priest… They are good a listening and giving advice!

 

[LilyM]

As an 62 year old RCIA Candidate, sooner or later I am going to have to make that first confession. My current RCIA class, interested only in the Catechumans, is of zilch help.

Vasectomy. Had one in 1973, just so I could go on fornicating without the consequences of unwanted children. Was this a sin by the standards of the Church? And what do I do about it NOW, 33 years later? Penance or atonement or what?

Another problem. I have never regretted my decision not to have children. Does this make me still attached to the sin of vasectomy? If so, how do I get rid of it? I mean, in my heart of hearts. I can do the lip service easy enough,

It’s not wrong to not want children - many people are celibate or use NFP for that reason among others. Especially if one is ill as you have been.

At least perhaps you can bring yourself to feel sorry that you chose such a drastic method as needless (and quite probably irreversible) surgery on the perfectly healthy God-given gift of your body. Spend some time in an infertility clinic or an adoption agency and see how many people would give almost literally anything to be able to have children.

As for the vasectomy itself - remember that you are required to have known at the time that it was a mortal sin, and fully and freely consented to it anyway. Was this the case?

 

[Andruschak]

I’m sorry you’re RCIA experience hasn’t been helpful. At least you’ve got us, if that’s any consolation.

When you go to confession Father will give you penance for all your sins you confess. But, you are not required to reverse the vasectomy, if that is what you are asking.

Not wanting children is not a sin, but if you had been married as a Catholic and had artificially prevented pregnancy, you would have been guilty of sin. However, the Church does not teach that couples must have children, only that couples must be open to life, using NFP for grave cause, such as illness or poverty, etc.

Oh yes, these forums have been a great help.

And the vasectomy cannot be reversed.

 

[Andruschak]

Yes, fornication is a sin by the standards of the Church, with or without the vasectomy. The vasectomy is a related but separate sin. You don’t have to have your vasectomy reversed, (but if the fornication is still a problem then you need to work on stopping that. )

The sacrament of confession doesn’t require “perfect contrition” for your sins to be forgiven, but if you think you’re still attached to some of your sins, then confess that too when time comes for your first confession. The attachment to sin (i.e. fond memories of things that were wrong, etc.) can linger long after one has stopped the sinful behavior. Breaking attachments to sin comes as one grows closer to the Lord, and I think the sacramental graces and graces through a devout prayer life help a lot with that too. Whether or not you ever regret having not had children I can’t say, but hopefully as you grow closer to the Lord you will be able to regret how you misused the gift of sexuality.

My fornications were a problem, enough to almost land me in prison. 5 years ago I had a bilateral orchiectomy, and I suppose that is another mortal sin

My concerns about “attachment” have to do with my desire to pray for the Church Suffering. I have no idea if my current prayers are any use.

Once I go through The Easter Vigil, my 3rd baptism, and who knows what else, my prayers will be more effective.

EXCEPT…gaining a Plenary Indulgence for the souls of Purgatory requires no attachment to sin, venial or otherwise.

No matter how you slice it or dice, I am going to need a huge amount of grace from Jesus and Mother Mary to get over this.

 

[Andruschak]

It’s not wrong to not want children - many people are celibate or use NFP for that reason among others. Especially if one is ill as you have been.

At least perhaps you can bring yourself to feel sorry that you chose such a drastic method as needless (and quite probably irreversible) surgery on the perfectly healthy God-given gift of your body. Spend some time in an infertility clinic or an adoption agency and see how many people would give almost literally anything to be able to have children.

As for the vasectomy itself - remember that you are required to have known at the time that it was a mortal sin, and fully and freely consented to it anyway. Was this the case?

No way. I had no idea of the Church’s teachings on the matter. The vasectomy was in 1973. My bilateral orchiectomy was in 2002.

At that time I was a Unitarian Universalist Humanist. If anybody had informed me that I was soon to embark on a path of spirituality that has brought me this far, I would never have believed them.

And as I mentioned in a previous post, my concerns about attachment to sins is related to my desire to help the souls in purgatory, and the Church sets some high standards on gaining those Plenary Indulgences for The Church Suffering.

I have a lot to work out with the Priest at my first confession. But thanks to this forum, I am getting a better picture of what is required.

I can only hope that, for that first confession, I will be alowed to sit down for the duration. If required to kneel, I am going to wind up with a serious case of housemaid’s knees

 

[LilyM]

No way. I had no idea of the Church’s teachings on the matter. The vasectomy was in 1973. My bilateral orchiectomy was in 2002.

At that time I was a Unitarian Universalist Humanist. If anybody had informed me that I was soon to embark on a path of spirituality that has brought me this far, I would never have believed them.

And as I mentioned in a previous post, my concerns about attachment to sins is related to my desire to help the souls in purgatory, and the Church sets some high standards on gaining those Plenary Indulgences for The Church Suffering.

I have a lot to work out with the Priest at my first confession. But thanks to this forum, I am getting a better picture of what is required.

I can only hope that, for that first confession, I will be alowed to sit down for the duration. If required to kneel, I am going to wind up with a serious case of housemaid’s knees

Glad that we’ve helped resolve some of your queries. Occasionally I leave these forums with more questions about an issue than I had to start with

Sin and confession are a little like crime and criminial trial - it’s easy enough to state generally what the rules are, sometimes mighty hard to say how a particular case can and will pan out in practice.

Remember priests are there to give advice and answer questions, and I can guarantee they will have heard sillier ones than anything you could ask.

 

[Mommyof02green]

Once I go through The Easter Vigil, my 3rd baptism, and who knows what else, my prayers will be more effective.

We believe in ONE baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

If you have already been baptized with water in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, you will NOT be baptized again.

 

[gardenswithkids]

I have no idea if my current prayers are any use. …gaining a Plenary Indulgence for the souls of Purgatory requires no attachment to sin, venial or otherwise.

I’m quite certain your prayers are effective, otherwise the devil wouldn’t tempt you into thinking your prayers aren’t effective (He tries to get people to stop praying that way.) The prayers of the righteous may be more effective, but that doesn’t mean that we must be perfect before the Lord hears our prayers. God hears your prayers. While you may desire to gain plenary indulgences, God is perfect in His mercy and His justice (and purgatory is an extension of His perfect justice.)

Once I go through The Easter Vigil, my 3rd baptism, and who knows what else, my prayers will be more effective.

I understand you will be recieving a “conditional baptism”, which is not really a baptism for another time. Conditional baptism happens when there exists question as to if the person was really baptized in the name of the Holy Trinity (for instance, if there is no proof of such a baptism.) It’s more like saying “just in case this person wasn’t already baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, we ask for baptism.”

No matter how you slice it or dice, I am going to need a huge amount of grace from Jesus and Mother Mary to get over this.

Yes, we all need grace to overcome our sins. God bless you, and keep praying as it is definately doing good already.

 

[MommyZ]

A vasectomy CAN be reversed, although it can be very expensive.

A great book to read concerning this topic is Life-Giving Love by Kimberly Hahn. A link to an summary of the book is
getfed.com/product_detail.cfm?ID=2929&AID=164&new=yes
It’s a book that’s based on a lot of research that she did for a class before she converted to Catholicism. I would recommend anyone to read it.

I don’t think the Catholic Church requires a reversal of sterilization, but I can’t find anything online that confirms that. I think that it is mentioned in the book. The church does require a sincere confession though before being able to receive Communion, which you’ll have the opportunity to do during Holy Week if you have already been baptized.

 

[Andruschak]

We believe in ONE baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

If you have already been baptized with water in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, you will NOT be baptized again.

I don’t know about that. RCIA in my area is a total muddle, with nobody paying much attention to what the US Conference Of Bishops had to say about Candidates NOT being treated as Catechumans (see the link in my signature).

They may insist on a conditional baptism. I suppose this and other matters may or may not be cleared up as the RCIA class lurches towards the Easter Vigil.

O yes, baptised 1944, shortly after my birth, Church of England. Baptised again at age 14 in the Lutheran Church. Not sure why. The CoE baptisimal certificate was lost, church records were distroyed in WW-!!, and I suppose my Mother’s oral statement of my Baptism may not have been good enough evidence. Who knows at this late date?

 

[Andruschak]

A vasectomy CAN be reversed, although it can be very expensive.
.

Um…in a previous posting in my thread, I mentioned having a bilateral orchiectomy in the year 2002. Trust me, this is quite irreversable. This will be another and very serious part of that first confession. However, thanks to this forum and the replies I have receibved, I have the hope that all will go well:thumbsup:

 

[mosher]

Um…in a previous posting in my thread, I mentioned having a bilateral orchiectomy in the year 2002. Trust me, this is quite irreversable. This will be another and very serious part of that first confession. However, thanks to this forum and the replies I have receibved, I have the hope that all will go well:thumbsup:

Since you stated that you were not aware of these things being a sin at the time that you did them then they are not a mortal sin in your case. Mortal sin requires full knowledge of an act being a sin when it is willed. I am not saying that you should not confess it. On the contrary I think you should make sure that you do confess it because it is weighing on your conscience. I do have a question however. Are you currently married? I ask this because of something that you stated in another post.

 

[Andruschak]

Since you stated that you were not aware of these things being a sin at the time that you did them then they are not a mortal sin in your case. Mortal sin requires full knowledge of an act being a sin when it is willed. I am not saying that you should not confess it. On the contrary I think you should make sure that you do confess it because it is weighing on your conscience. I do have a question however. Are you currently married? I ask this because of something that you stated in another post.

I am not currently married, and in fact have never been married. My alcoholism had something to do with this, plus other factors

 

[gardenswithkids]

I know this is off the original post question, but I wanted to respond to the original poster’s comments about his anticipated conditional baptism.

O yes, baptised 1944, shortly after my birth, Church of England. Baptised again at age 14 in the Lutheran Church. Not sure why. The CoE baptisimal certificate was lost, church records were distroyed in WW-!!, and I suppose my Mother’s oral statement of my Baptism may not have been good enough evidence. Who knows at this late date?

It’s very typical to require proof of baptism before administering any other sacraments, even when the child was baptized Catholic. Usually the only exception to that is if the child was baptized at the same parish where he is recieving the other sacraments, because the parish already has that baptismal certificate on record.

I had to provide my children’s baptism certificates before they recieved either first confession, first Communion or Confirmation. One was baptized in a Lutheran church while I was away from the Catholic Church attending my husband’s church at the time. The proof of a Lutheran baptism was acceptable, but I found it a bit embarrassing to provide a document that also showed I was away from the Church. So it’s not that the Catholic church doesn’t consider either a Lutheran baptism or a baptism from the Church of England acceptable. But as we believe baptism is such important Sacrament, the Church wants documented proof. In the absense of such documentation they will “conditionally baptize” just to be certain.

Anyway, I just wrote all that so you don’t feel like you are being singled out. My word that my children were baptized isn’t good enough either.

 

[Andruschak]

Anyway, I just wrote all that so you don’t feel like you are being singled out. My word that my children were baptized isn’t good enough either.

Noted. In fact, at this morning’s RCIA class, the facilitator did mention that in my case a conditional baptism would be good enough. I’ll be so thrilled to get that out of the way.

She also mentioned that I had to get a sponser. Not sure what that is. We have “sponsers” in AA, but I’m sure that is not what she was talking about

 

[gardenswithkids]

Noted. In fact, at this morning’s RCIA class, the facilitator did mention that in my case a conditional baptism would be good enough. I’ll be so thrilled to get that out of the way.

She also mentioned that I had to get a sponser. Not sure what that is. We have “sponsers” in AA, but I’m sure that is not what she was talking about

A sponsor is someone who stands up with you at Confirmation and who helps support you as a soon-to-be and newly-confirmed Catholic. A sponsor needs to be a Catholic whose already is confirmed, and preferably be someone who will help you grow in your faith and pray for you. If you know any faithful Catholic as friends or mentors, those are good choices. If you don’t know anyone, the RCIA director probably knows someone at the parish willing to help you in your walk of faith as a newly confirmed Catholic.