Vasectomy and Baptism

[otherman]

Hello!

I am just barely starting my journey toward becoming a Catholic. I am an unbaptized person who has been divorced and remarried. Because neither my ex-wife or I were baptized in any Christian faith, I have faith that the Church will be able to take care of that issue. My issue is that I had a vasectomy long before discovering the truth of the Catholic faith.

My question is this…understanding the Church’s view on contraception, I understand vasectomies are sinful. Will this affect my ability to be baptized and received into the Church if I cannot have it reversed?

I have spoken with a priest and he told me that I need to make efforts to have the vasectomy reversed as part of my conversion. My concern is that I cannot afford to have the procedure reversed.

Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[1ke]

Yes, you can be baptized. And, the church does NOT require that you have it reversed in order to be received into the Church. It is something you can consider, but not a requirement.

I suggest you visit www.omsoul.com for some information and testimony of those who have had a reversal.

 

[TAS2000]

I am an unbaptized person who has been divorced and remarried. Because neither my ex-wife or I were baptized in any Christian faith, I have faith that the Church will be able to take care of that issue.

I know you said this wasn’t your concern, but I thought I’d bring it up. Not sure what you mean by the Church “taking care of the issue” but I believe in general it is the practice of the church to consider 2 non-baptized people to be validly married unless proven otherwise. So I believe the church would consider you to still be married to your first wife, and not free to date or otherwise get re-married without seeking an annulment first. Thus, if you have re-married, you would be in a state of sin and you should DEFINATLY talk to your priest who will advise you that this is a VERY serious situation. I could be wrong, but this is not something to take lightly.

 

[Newbie2]

Yes, you can be baptized. And, the church does NOT require that you have it reversed in order to be received into the Church. It is something you can consider, but not a requirement.
.

dittos.

 

[Yerusalyim]

When you are baptized, ALL sin is forgiven, you start out clean. So as long as there are no current lifestyle issues impeding you, baptism should be a problem. Yes, a reversal should be considered, but is in no way mandatory, especially considering the viability of reversals falls drastically after two years, and are almost always unsuccessful after give years. As always you should consult an orthodox (as in right doctrine…faithful to Rome) Catholic Priest.

Welcome to the family and good luck.

 

[otherman]

Thank you for all your (name removed by moderator)ut. I am confused because it sounds like there are differing views with regard to my former marriage. My understanding from reading the Gospels and the writings of St. Paul is that the blood of Christ is sufficient to forgive all sins. Is it the Church’s teaching that certain sins (such as a divorce prior to conversion) are not forgivable?

St. Paul said that we are all new creations when we place our faith in Jesus, repent, and proceed living in the new life. How do these teachings and the belief that a divorce committed while not exposed to the truth is a sin that God charges you with forever mix?

Forgive my ignorance, but I just am curious if this is a Church teaching or beliefs of members?

Thank you again and God Bless!

 

[TAS2000]

Divorce is not a sin, you seem to be mis-informed. In fact a civil divorce is REQUIRED before you can get remmaried after an annulment, since the church decision has no legal bearing on the civil courts.

The sin is in the fact that the church considers your first marriage to be valid until proven otherwise with an annulment. That means you are legally (from the church veiw) still married to your first wife. If you are re-married and presumably living with your second wife as man and wife, then you are currently sinning in adultery. Until you obtain an annulment for your first marriage, you could not recieve any sacraments, unless you were willing to physically seperate (not the legal seperate) from your current wife and have no relations until after you were granted an annulment.

It isn’t the past divorce that is the problem, it is the current marriage without annulment.

 

[teachccd]

Thank you for all your (name removed by moderator)ut. I am confused because it sounds like there are differing views with regard to my former marriage. My understanding from reading the Gospels and the writings of St. Paul is that the blood of Christ is sufficient to forgive all sins. Is it the Church’s teaching that certain sins (such as a divorce prior to conversion) are not forgivable?

St. Paul said that we are all new creations when we place our faith in Jesus, repent, and proceed living in the new life. How do these teachings and the belief that a divorce committed while not exposed to the truth is a sin that God charges you with forever mix?

Forgive my ignorance, but I just am curious if this is a Church teaching or beliefs of members?

Thank you again and God Bless!

I teach a pre-baptism class at my parish and for the last five years never encountered this situation. If one is divorced prior to baptism is that person accountable?? I hope that this is not totally off topic because of the relevancy of baptism and the total forgiveness of sins. IMHO I would admit that since this person was outside of Christianity at the time he/she would be free to remarry since even scripture would not bind a non-Christian. Any thoughts? And again I feel that this is very pertinent to the OP…teachccd

 

[teachccd]

Divorce is not a sin, you seem to be mis-informed. In fact a civil divorce is REQUIRED before you can get remmaried after an annulment, since the church decision has no legal bearing on the civil courts.

The sin is in the fact that the church considers your first marriage to be valid until proven otherwise with an annulment. That means you are legally (from the church veiw) still married to your first wife. If you are re-married and presumably living with your second wife as man and wife, then you are currently sinning in adultery. Until you obtain an annulment for your first marriage, you could not recieve any sacraments, unless you were willing to physically seperate (not the legal seperate) from your current wife and have no relations until after you were granted an annulment.

It isn’t the past divorce that is the problem, it is the current marriage without annulment.

So this poster can not be baptized if his first marriage is not annulled? He was not a member of the Church during his divorce so how can he be bound before baptism??

 

[1ke]

Is it the Church’s teaching that certain sins (such as a divorce prior to conversion) are not forgivable?

No, the Church does not teach divorce is an unforgivable sin. The sin of divorce can be forgiven via baptism or Confession. The sin of divorce is a sin against the Sixth Commandment. From the Catechism:

Divorce

2382 The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble.173 He abrogates the accommodations that had slipped into the old Law.174

Between the baptized, "a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death."175

2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.176

If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.

2384 Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:

If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another’s husband to herself.177

2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.

2386 It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.178

St. Paul said that we are all new creations when we place our faith in Jesus, repent, and proceed living in the new life. How do these teachings and the belief that a divorce committed while not exposed to the truth is a sin that God charges you with forever mix?

I’m not sure I understand your question. The sin of divorce can be forgiven.

However, that does not mean a person is free to contract a new marriage. That depends upon the validity of the first marriage and must be examined by the Church authority.

 

[1ke]

Divorce is not a sin, you seem to be mis-informed.

This is not true. Please see the Catechism, specifically the section on the Sixth Commandment-- offenses against marriage.

The sin is in the fact that the church considers your first marriage to be valid until proven otherwise with an annulment. That means you are legally (from the church veiw) still married to your first wife. If you are re-married and presumably living with your second wife as man and wife, then you are currently sinning in adultery. Until you obtain an annulment for your first marriage, you could not recieve any sacraments, unless you were willing to physically seperate (not the legal seperate) from your current wife and have no relations until after you were granted an annulment.

Yes, there is a problem with the current marriage. Sounds like the OP is confident that he will receive a decree of nullity, or will qualify for the Pauline Privilege.

It isn’t the past divorce that is the problem, it is the current marriage without annulment.

The divorce is itself a sin, which can be forgiven via baptism.

The remarriage, and current state of adultery, is a separate sin.

 

[1ke]

So this poster can not be baptized if his first marriage is not annulled?

Correct, he cannot be baptized until he receives a decree of nullity, or is granted the Pauline Privilege (or Petrine Privilege if his spouse was baptized). Or, alternately if he separates from his current spouse.

He was not a member of the Church during his divorce so how can he be bound before baptism??

He is bound because God’s Law is universal, not only for Christians. Jesus confirms this when he says “in the beginning it was not so…”. Jesus acknowledges that marriage is an estate created by God at the time of Adam and Eve.

I recommend you study Canon Law on the subject.

 

[1ke]

I teach a pre-baptism class at my parish and for the last five years never encountered this situation.

If you are in charge of RCIA you need to refer every person who has a divorce in their history to the priest. The priest will examine their situation and guide them on what they need to do.

If one is divorced prior to baptism is that person accountable??

Yes

I would admit that since this person was outside of Christianity at the time he/she would be free to remarry since even scripture would not bind a non-Christian.

This is not correct. You need to study this subject carefully, I’m sure you would not want to give incorrect information to one seeking baptism. Ask your priest for materials, or contact your diocese regarding training courses.

 

[teachccd]

Thank you 1ke. I do not teach RCIA. I teach mostly parents of infants who will be baptized so this situation never surfaced as of yet. But I will seek out more information should this come up. Thank you so much for your time as I always want to learn in order that I may pass on correct information. You have been so kind in your response. God Bless…teachccd

 

[1ke]

Thank you 1ke. I do not teach RCIA. I teach mostly parents of infants who will be baptized so this situation never surfaced as of yet. But I will seek out more information should this come up. Thank you so much for your time as I always want to learn in order that I may pass on correct information. You have been so kind in your response. God Bless…teachccd

I see, I misunderstood what you meant by “pre baptism class”.

But, it’s always good to be adding to the storehouse of knowledge-- you never know when someone will ask you a question!

 

[Yerusalyim]

In the long run, this is an issue for the priest to discuss, not us amatuers. Divorce CAN be sin, it isn’t ALWAYS a sin. My understanding of what the church teaches is that marriages even between two unbaptized persons, is considered valid and sacramental.

 

[1ke]

My understanding of what the church teaches is that marriages even between two unbaptized persons, is considered valid and sacramental.

A marriage can only be sacramental if it is between two baptized persons.

A marriage between two unbaptized persons, or one baptized and one unbaptized person, is valid but not sacramental. It is referred to as a natural marriage.

 

[Yerusalyim]

Better use of terminology, I’m sure. However, if an unbaptized person is divorced and then wishes to marry a baptized person, an annullment must be granted.

 

[1ke]

However, if an unbaptized person is divorced and then wishes to marry a baptized person, an annullment must be granted.

Yes, but a decree of nullity pertains to validity, not sacramentality.

Also, an unbaptized person may be able to apply for the Pauline or Petrine Privilege-- which is not a decree of nullity but a dissolution of a prior bond.

 

[TAS2000]

Divorce CAN be sin, it isn’t ALWAYS a sin.

This is not true. Please see the Catechism, specifically the section on the Sixth Commandment-- offenses against marriage.

The divorce is itself a sin, which can be forgiven via baptism.

The remarriage, and current state of adultery, is a separate sin.

Yes, I should have been more specific. Divorce CAN be a sin but in this case I was just trying to say that it wasn’t the past divorce that was his real impediement to the sacraments. it is his current marriage.