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flyingfish
Guest
But would you say that infertility or menopause opens the door to reckless behaviors?
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Hiskid1973
Guest
If anything opens the door for reckless behavior, the clear majority of cause I would say is porn…
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shannyk
Guest
I didn’t get the sense that OP was blaming his affair on his vasectomy, but connecting having had one, to his changed attitudes to sex that lead him to the point where his mentality had changed so drastically that he didn’t think having an affair was a big deal. I don’t think that is blame, or excusing himself, it’s just part of the whole explanation.
OP I am a woman but I know exactly how you feel!! After I had my second child, I was suffering BADLY from PPD and my husband was able to talk me into getting the Depo Provera shot, a chemical birth control injection that lasts 3 months. We had previously used NFP, but hubby was not on board anymore with it. Normally I would NEVER had agreed to it, but I was not really in my right mind at the time. ***It was the worst thing I’ve ever done ***and the worst possible thing for our already strained marriage. The free for all you describe in our case was very brief, and I got very resentful very quickly. Then he got resentful, we lost communication…it was a downward spiral from there.
I can completely understand how having the V done changed you and your marriage. You’re right, it’s a sin for a reason, becasue it is against our very nature. Contraception/sterilization is a KILLER of marriages!! I’m glad you’re talking about this, and sharing your experience.
OP I am a woman but I know exactly how you feel!! After I had my second child, I was suffering BADLY from PPD and my husband was able to talk me into getting the Depo Provera shot, a chemical birth control injection that lasts 3 months. We had previously used NFP, but hubby was not on board anymore with it. Normally I would NEVER had agreed to it, but I was not really in my right mind at the time. ***It was the worst thing I’ve ever done ***and the worst possible thing for our already strained marriage. The free for all you describe in our case was very brief, and I got very resentful very quickly. Then he got resentful, we lost communication…it was a downward spiral from there.
I can completely understand how having the V done changed you and your marriage. You’re right, it’s a sin for a reason, becasue it is against our very nature. Contraception/sterilization is a KILLER of marriages!! I’m glad you’re talking about this, and sharing your experience.
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flyingfish
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whatevergirl
Guest
I think when you make a conscious effort to avoid conception, it’s a different mindset that a natural occurence like menopause, or ‘‘naturally’’ not being able to conceive. We can’t blanket statement this and say ALL MEN who have vasectomies are going to progress into reckless behavior…we can only take this poster’s story at face value. No two people are alike. That said, if he says it opened the door, why not believe him? He isn’t saying he isn’t culpable for his affair…he only said it caused a lot of problems for him. He said that after having the vasectomy, he began to objectify his wife…thus, that led to generally objectifying women. Then, he had an affair. It’s the mindset that caused the affair, not the surgery. I don’t believe that menopause or not being able to conceive…will have those psycholigcal effects.
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whatevergirl
Guest
He’s admitting he was WRONG, though…
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whm
Guest
It is more than just the lack of consequences (creating life), it is also often a un-repented, un-confessed serious (even mortal) sin. Being in a spiritually weakened condition is an open door to more sins.
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whatevergirl
Guest
*Something outside of ourselves doesn’t open the door to sin, we do. Porn, birth control, they are nothing more than potential catalysts. Porn doesn’t fall into a person’s lap…he/she seeks it out. Same with birth control, and other behaviors. Only God can fill the emptiness than mankind faces…when we seek to fill it with bad reckless behaviors, we will fall into deep sin.
The contraception mindset in general, cuts off the totality of the gift of sexuality. So, naturally, if we cut that aspect out, we will have the mindset to view sex as we wish…to view it mainly as a pleasure seeking ‘device,’ which is what ultimately led to the OP viewing porn, and then other reckless behaviors. *
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crazzeto
Guest
:clapping:
I admire you for sharing your story, my fiance and I have discussed this and are going with NFP. I plan on sticking with it.
I admire you for sharing your story, my fiance and I have discussed this and are going with NFP. I plan on sticking with it.
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jrabs
Guest
Interesting post - though I think your problems run deeper then having a vasectomy. It was your whole view on sex and selfcenteredness that was the root of your issue. You opted for this to have limitless sex - you already had the propensity for devaluing the marital act by deciding that you wanted it for free, easily available fun.
To blame the vasectomy is not placing blame properly. But I do see the side where you are warning others that it is wrong and may change someone’s life adversly.
I do appreciate how you have deeply considered the sin and it’s outcome in your life.
The heading of this topic is ill-fitted. I understand your analogy that it is life changing but it is not the mudered of innocence and the murder of a human being. If unconfessed does lead to death of the soul.
To blame the vasectomy is not placing blame properly. But I do see the side where you are warning others that it is wrong and may change someone’s life adversly.
I do appreciate how you have deeply considered the sin and it’s outcome in your life.
The heading of this topic is ill-fitted. I understand your analogy that it is life changing but it is not the mudered of innocence and the murder of a human being. If unconfessed does lead to death of the soul.
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cathcapt
Guest
There is a tremendous difference between a free act of the will and a naturally occurring event. The two things are a true apples to oranges comparison.
Vas numbs a man’s soul. Sure there were other factors in the marriage that lead to the affair(I’ve never disputed that) but the vas did open doors-doors that should have been kept sealed shut. By getting cut, I allowed a whole new set of dangerous circumstances to come into play. Women became objects for my pleasure so why not pass through that door I threw wide open by getting cut?
Why set the gas can next to the camp fire when you can set it back 30 feet?
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Hiskid1973
Guest
You are correct, we open that door…My point was porn plays a vast role in infidelity today, more so I would say than any kind of bc…She was fine with three children…I wasn’t insisting on more…I chose v rather than have her go through a major op…The whole thing with marriage and divorce is the choices we make whether good or bad…Selfishness is the problem no matter where it applies to…Gees it boils down to what we see a s sin and where we feel the problem started…
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kage_ar
Guest
If you are Catholic, regret is a huge part of contrition for the sin of sterilization. Prayers you can find the contrition to make a good confession.
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Hiskid1973
Guest
I had that problem before committing my life to Christ…I felt it started with porn I got into as a teen…
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manualman
Guest
First, thanks to the OP for an extremely personal account of sin, failure and redemption! May God bless and heal you of your wounds!
The above quote is VERY true and needs elaboration. NFP doesn’t prevent objectivised attitudes towards to sex, but it sure makes it difficult. I agree that the OP already had a problem with objectifying sex BEFORE the vasectomy. But having the vasectomy greased the skids, so to speak. It made that objectivization all the more easier because it removed that pesky abstinance period every month in which he would need to express his love for his wife in another way. NFP does not (contrary to some boosters claims) inherently improve the marriage. What it DOES do well is serve like the canary in an old coal mine: the canary dies before you do and gives you warning that danger is imminent. If you find it impossible to deal with the abstinance periods each month, danger is imminent!
Choosing to be cut seems to have been an outcome of an already disordered inclination. But actions have consequences, and in this case the action removed a barrier to a progressively increasing objectivization of his wife. So I agree the vasectomy wasn’t the ORIGIN of the problem (The origin goes all the way back to Adam and Eve, after all!). There was already a fire burning, but the vasectomy poured a tankful of gasoline on it.
This also explains the difference in people’s experience. Catholic teaching is clear that purposeful sterilization is ALWAYS sinful because it always increases the human tendency to (especially in men, IMO) objectivize sex. Some notice the effects more than others because they were already in an unhealthy condition even beforehand. But ALL sin damages your ability to give and receive love. That’s basically the DEFINITION of a sin.
Menopause and unintended sterility are simply not the same because the CHOICE is not there. It CAN be a burden and tempt the couple towards objectivizing each other, but is not necessarily so because there is no intent to sterilize.
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Mirror_Mirror
Guest
I echo the comments of those that have applauded the OP for this strength and courage to come here and admit this. I, too, feel that men too often do not stand up for the things that they know are wrong (porn, vasectomy, birth control, etc.) and is most likely swept under the rug.
I can see the connection that has been made between the affair and the vasectomy. The vasectomy opened the door to many things that may not have been considered before. Such is the beauty of NFP. The communication with one’s spouse, the sacredness of the martial embrace, the giving of oneself, totally, faithfully, fruitfully, and freely is HOLY! Theology of the Body does a magnificant job of showing us how this act is sacred and how it renews our wedding vows with our spouse. It shows us that Christ is present during the most special time between a husband and wife.
A vasectomy robs this from you. It takes a part of you that should not have been taken. Your embrace is no longer total, it is no longer fruitful. As the OP mentioned, your spouse becomes an object for your pleasure, not a partner, an object. A way for your to satisfy you temporary need for an orgasm. You would prefer that momentary orgasm to the full enjoyment of what God intended the sexual act to be between a husband and wife.
A vasectomy, birth control and pornography can all be placed on the same scale and measured equally. They all 3 rob the person of something. They take away the part of them that can view their spouse as their partner, as the one that the become one with in the marital act. We hear it every time we attend mass…“Take this…this is My body, which has been given up for you.” As is the case in the marital act, this is your body, given for your spouse, completely, holding nothing back, NOTHING. The pornography, the birth control, the vasectomy, tubes tied, that takes this away. That is holding something back. You are not giving of yourself completely. They all increase the ability to objectify your spouse and use then for your own selfish pleasure.
Sure the thought was that the OP and his wife would have “fun sex” once this happened. Sex on demand. Sex all the time. Then, when sex becomes an act, it loses it’s meaning, it loses it power. It loses the ability to transform us into the one flesh union that God gave us in marriage. Sex is not meant to be fun (it is a byproduct of the act). Sex was not created for your orgasm. Sex was not gifted to us to be great. Sex is HOLY! Giving of ourselves to our spouse as Christ gave Himself for His bride, the Church. FREELY, TOTALLY, FAITHFULLY and FRUITFULLY.
It is not about what you can gain from the marital embrace, it is about what you can give, completely give.
I can see the connection that has been made between the affair and the vasectomy. The vasectomy opened the door to many things that may not have been considered before. Such is the beauty of NFP. The communication with one’s spouse, the sacredness of the martial embrace, the giving of oneself, totally, faithfully, fruitfully, and freely is HOLY! Theology of the Body does a magnificant job of showing us how this act is sacred and how it renews our wedding vows with our spouse. It shows us that Christ is present during the most special time between a husband and wife.
A vasectomy robs this from you. It takes a part of you that should not have been taken. Your embrace is no longer total, it is no longer fruitful. As the OP mentioned, your spouse becomes an object for your pleasure, not a partner, an object. A way for your to satisfy you temporary need for an orgasm. You would prefer that momentary orgasm to the full enjoyment of what God intended the sexual act to be between a husband and wife.
A vasectomy, birth control and pornography can all be placed on the same scale and measured equally. They all 3 rob the person of something. They take away the part of them that can view their spouse as their partner, as the one that the become one with in the marital act. We hear it every time we attend mass…“Take this…this is My body, which has been given up for you.” As is the case in the marital act, this is your body, given for your spouse, completely, holding nothing back, NOTHING. The pornography, the birth control, the vasectomy, tubes tied, that takes this away. That is holding something back. You are not giving of yourself completely. They all increase the ability to objectify your spouse and use then for your own selfish pleasure.
Sure the thought was that the OP and his wife would have “fun sex” once this happened. Sex on demand. Sex all the time. Then, when sex becomes an act, it loses it’s meaning, it loses it power. It loses the ability to transform us into the one flesh union that God gave us in marriage. Sex is not meant to be fun (it is a byproduct of the act). Sex was not created for your orgasm. Sex was not gifted to us to be great. Sex is HOLY! Giving of ourselves to our spouse as Christ gave Himself for His bride, the Church. FREELY, TOTALLY, FAITHFULLY and FRUITFULLY.
It is not about what you can gain from the marital embrace, it is about what you can give, completely give.
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Mirror_Mirror
Guest
Have you looked into a reversal? I do not know much about them but is this something that you would consider if it was possible (after so long I am not sure)?
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HouseArrest
Guest
Isn’t that why any couple decides on a vasectomy? Worry free sex? For what other reason is there to get one?
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Hiskid1973
Guest
Worry free sex wasn’t in the equation…We were trying to raise the family on one income and raising three was what she was content with…Sex was not an issue…
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Rico_S
Guest
Hiskid:
You’re serving up softballs to them! Of course sex is the issue. You discerned that your family was the right size, and you did not want more children for whatever reasons …but you did not want to abstain from sex to achieve that end…hence the v. Make no mistake, sex is the issue.
The difference is in how you view sex vs. how they view sex.
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