Vasectomy

[Joe_5859]

Counselors give advice Joe, I’m not giving advice I’m telling what happened to me and telling others that it’s not their business to make such a huge decision for this guy. Let’s grow up and not be snarky to eachother ok? What’s the problem with leaving this up to professional medical personnel and a priest? This is a forum for discussion and while he asked for advice I don’t think the “NFP is the cure all” advice given by laypeople is sufficient, we should all tell him to talk to more doctors and a priest not give him some pat answer.

I’m not trying to be snarky.

The OP came here presumably because he was looking for the Catholic viewpoint, which was given. NFP is consistent with Catholic teaching whereas sterilization is not. Hence, you will get more people here on a Catholic forum advocating in favor of that option.

Certainly talking to one’s priest is almost always a better option that asking for advice here on CAF. I don’t think anyone here is attempting to place themselves as an authority over the OP commanding him to a certain course of action. He has free will; he can do what he chooses. But he shouldn’t be surprised that many posters choose to give him answers that are consistent with Catholic teaching on the matter. I always figure that’s what people come here for.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

DISCLAIMER
I am not Catholic, I will not be giving a Catholic viewpoint, and I understand that most of you will disagree with me in very fundamental ways.
End Disclaimer

I am a big believer in putting a spouse first. If your wife’s life is in danger if she gets pregnant then you need to do whatever it takes to protect her. That means vasectomy. If a doctor feels that that isn’t safe enough, then a vasectomy and the pill. (I know, I’m listing off a lot of sins here.)

This may be because I grew up Protestant, but my view is that if there is a god he will understand you when you say “I know that the CC said I shouldn’t get a vasectomy but you gave me this wife to love and protect, so I did the best I could.”

I guess a part of me doesn’t understand how you could even consider NFP. To do it as strictly as you would have to you may only have 1 or 2 safe days a month, if that. There goes the spontaneity, passion, romance, etc. I know, in theory you should have more safe days than that, but there are tons of horror stories from people on this site.

Sex is so powerful when it comes to bonding a couple. Willingly giving that up in a marriage strikes me as very wrong.

All that being said, if you want to be in step with the CC and not commit mortal sin, take anyone else’s advice. My view is a very secular one.

 

[wild_thing]

the Church teaching is absolutely clear and unambiguous, no surgical sterilization procedure undergone by either the man or the woman for the purpose of preventing pregnancy is ever permitted under any circumstances.

You owe it to yourself to have a conversation with your priest before you undertake such a radical and often irreversible action, which may fail in any case to protect against what you fear.

The medical aspects that lead to pressure for such decisions can be complex and hard to understand. The most helpful source I have ever seen is DR. Anthony Dardano (sp?) who is the expert Judie Brown contacts on her pro-life Q&A column at EWTN.com, you might ask her directly for his contact information or search past responses to the types of difficulty your wife is facing.

No God won’t punish you but you may harm your marriage irretrievably as now sex will just be about sex, and not unity and procreation, any more and you may not see the damage done to intimacy and your relationship until years down the road. Plus you have now put your life on a footing where you no longer trust God to know what is best for you and that is the scariest thing of all.

OP, I think puzzleannie has given you some great advice here. My husband got a vasectomy after our second child was born for various reasons. We were not “catholic” at the time but it was a decision we did not take lightly. A couple of years ago, he had it reversed and we have been blessed with another child (and one on the way). I think it is very hard to put into words how subtly the intimacy within marriage changes after a sterilization procedure. I don’t think my husband and I even realized it until after he had it reversed. It does change it, and it also changes your relationship with God. I love what puzzleannie says- “you have now put your life on a footing where you no longer trust God to know what is best for you”.

I do not pretend that there is an easy choice here. Either way, you will have to sacrifice. It’s up to you what the sacrifice is going to be. Pray and don’t stop praying for God to help you come to the right decision for you and your family. Pray for peace and the courage to do God’s will. He will surely help you. I’ll keep your family in my prayers.

 

[mwncheesehead]

I hope Corey the OP has taken some of the good comments to heart here. He had his one original post 4 days ago and hasn’t returned. I hope he didn’t go through with that vasectomy.

 

[Joe_5859]

I hope Corey the OP has taken some of the good comments to heart here. He had his one original post 4 days ago and hasn’t returned. I hope he didn’t go through with that vasectomy.

Yes, according to the OP, his vasectomy would have been scheduled for yesterday. So I suppose at this point, advice is somewhat moot. He’s either gone through with it or he hasn’t. We can continue to pray for him either way.

 

[lo_amo87]

DISCLAIMER
I am not Catholic, I will not be giving a Catholic viewpoint, and I understand that most of you will disagree with me in very fundamental ways.
End Disclaimer

I am a big believer in putting a spouse first. If your wife’s life is in danger if she gets pregnant then you need to do whatever it takes to protect her. That means vasectomy. If a doctor feels that that isn’t safe enough, then a vasectomy and the pill. (I know, I’m listing off a lot of sins here.)

This may be because I grew up Protestant, but my view is that if there is a god he will understand you when you say “I know that the CC said I shouldn’t get a vasectomy but you gave me this wife to love and protect, so I did the best I could.”

I guess a part of me doesn’t understand how you could even consider NFP. To do it as strictly as you would have to you may only have 1 or 2 safe days a month, if that. There goes the spontaneity, passion, romance, etc. I know, in theory you should have more safe days than that, but there are tons of horror stories from people on this site.

Sex is so powerful when it comes to bonding a couple. Willingly giving that up in a marriage strikes me as very wrong.

All that being said, if you want to be in step with the CC and not commit mortal sin, take anyone else’s advice. My view is a very secular one.

Yeaaaaah except if a person is trying to be a good Catholic, everything you said suggests he completely ignore his catholic faith. If he wants to assure there will not be any danger to his wife’s life, then they should both practice abstinance until she can no longer bear children. This sounds like an outrageous thing to do, but I know couples who do it. Sex is not everything in a relationship. It doesn’t define us as humans. It is a wonderful thing to share in marriage. But it is not necessary for a happy life. We can go without it. Nuns and priests go without it their whole lives. This might be the cross they must bear until the time is right in order to perserve his wife’s health and their souls.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Yeaaaaah except if a person is trying to be a good Catholic, everything you said suggests he completely ignore his catholic faith. If he wants to assure there will not be any danger to his wife’s life, then they should both practice abstinance until she can no longer bear children. This sounds like an outrageous thing to do, but I know couples who do it. Sex is not everything in a relationship. It doesn’t define us as humans. It is a wonderful thing to share in marriage. But it is not necessary for a happy life. We can go without it. Nuns and priests go without it their whole lives. This might be the cross they must bear until the time is right in order to perserve his wife’s health and their souls.

The Bible even makes it clear that we are not to neglect our partners physical needs. Yes, we can go without sex. No, it will no physically harm us. But, long term rejection and physical abandonment by a partner hurts. It hurts the individuals and it hurts the relationship. No, sex isn’t everything. But, it is something. Even the chemicals that are released in our bodies during sex are there to remind us to stay with this person.

As for Priests and Nuns, they didn’t make a lifelong commitment to a partner that does include a sexual commitment. They don’t go to bed with someone every night. In fact, they have made a commitment not to have sex and be romantically involved with anyone.

Sexless relationships hurt. They make people feel disconnected. Sex is the greatest show of love and affection there is. You cannot take that out of a marriage and expect things not to change drastically. To refrain from sex for a decade or more is nothing less than emotional violence.

 

[lo_amo87]

The Bible even makes it clear that we are not to neglect our partners physical needs. Yes, we can go without sex. No, it will no physically harm us. But, long term rejection and physical abandonment by a partner hurts. It hurts the individuals and it hurts the relationship. No, sex isn’t everything. But, it is something. Even the chemicals that are released in our bodies during sex are there to remind us to stay with this person.

As for Priests and Nuns, they didn’t make a lifelong commitment to a partner that does include a sexual commitment. They don’t go to bed with someone every night. In fact, they have made a commitment not to have sex and be romantically involved with anyone.

Sexless relationships hurt. They make people feel disconnected. Sex is the greatest show of love and affection there is. You cannot take that out of a marriage and expect things not to change drastically. To refrain from sex for a decade or more is nothing less than emotional violence.

I disagree. It’s just sex. Being able to ignore our baser instincts frees us to discover our true humanity. Marriage is a tight bond because of the love one has for another–and it does not have to constantly be proven with physical release. I dated my now husband for 5 years and witheld sex the entire time. Was it difficult? Of course. But not impossible and our relationship sure didn’t suffer from it. The couple should try new activities and hobbies together to bond in the absense of sex. It CAN be done, and the couple does not have to suffer unreasonably.

I think if a couple can’t be together just because sex is absent, there is probably something more that needs to be addressed.
Emotional violence? Really? Now if the decision wasn’t mutual, then yes I would agree. That’s where your quote from the Bible comes from. But if the couple comes to the conclusion together, then they’ll be stronger for it in the future.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I disagree. It’s just sex. Being able to ignore our baser instincts frees us to discover our true humanity. Marriage is a tight bond because of the love one has for another–and it does not have to constantly be proven with physical release. I dated my now husband for 5 years and witheld sex the entire time. Was it difficult? Of course. But not impossible and our relationship sure didn’t suffer from it. The couple should try new activities and hobbies together to bond in the absense of sex. It CAN be done, and the couple does not have to suffer unreasonably.

I think if a couple can’t be together just because sex is absent, there is probably something more that needs to be addressed.
Emotional violence? Really? Now if the decision wasn’t mutual, then yes I would agree. That’s where your quote from the Bible comes from. But if the couple comes to the conclusion together, then they’ll be stronger for it in the future.

It isn’t an either/or thing. A couple can try new hobbies and activities and have a rich and fulfilling sex life. Just because a couple has an active sex life does not mean that they are focused on the wrong things. (And I have to say, if a couple’s sex life is getting in the way of them trying new hobbies and activities, then they must be very blessed. I’ve certainly never heard of that happening.) Sex does not take the place of open and honest communication, laughter, or anything else. It’s just one more thing that makes a relationship strong and wonderful.

If it is the case that couples who mutually choose to abstain aren’t hurting each other, then why is it that people come on here constantly saying how brokenhearted they are because NFP only allows them one day a month, if that? They mutually agreed to it, so there is no reason that they should be torn up about not being able to enjoy a marital embrace.

Your claim that a married couple is stronger when they agree not to have sex has not been verified by any scientific study or survey. In fact, its been shown over and over again that an active sex and a happy marriage go hand in hand.

Furthermore, I’ve noticed on this site and in real life that the people who advise others to be abstinent for years have never done it, but they are so sure that they could and that it would be just fine.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Also, if sex is just sex and really not a big deal to give up, then what could possibly be the point of waiting until marriage?

 

[runwaymodel]

I disagree. It’s just sex. Being able to ignore our baser instincts frees us to discover our true humanity. Marriage is a tight bond because of the love one has for another–and it does not have to constantly be proven with physical release. I dated my now husband for 5 years and witheld sex the entire time. Was it difficult? Of course. But not impossible and our relationship sure didn’t suffer from it. The couple should try new activities and hobbies together to bond in the absense of sex. It CAN be done, and the couple does not have to suffer unreasonably.

I think if a couple can’t be together just because sex is absent, there is probably something more that needs to be addressed.
Emotional violence? Really? Now if the decision wasn’t mutual, then yes I would agree. That’s where your quote from the Bible comes from. But if the couple comes to the conclusion together, then they’ll be stronger for it in the future.

 

[austenbosten]

I disagree. It’s just sex. Being able to ignore our baser instincts frees us to discover our true humanity. Marriage is a tight bond because of the love one has for another–and it does not have to constantly be proven with physical release. I dated my now husband for 5 years and witheld sex the entire time. Was it difficult? Of course. But not impossible and our relationship sure didn’t suffer from it. The couple should try new activities and hobbies together to bond in the absense of sex. It CAN be done, and the couple does not have to suffer unreasonably.

I think if a couple can’t be together just because sex is absent, there is probably something more that needs to be addressed.
Emotional violence? Really? Now if the decision wasn’t mutual, then yes I would agree. That’s where your quote from the Bible comes from. But if the couple comes to the conclusion together, then they’ll be stronger for it in the future.

I agree, last night my brother-in-law and I were talking about wedding’s and men’s changes in fashion from cummerbunds to vests and he mentioned about during my wedding night I’ll probably be too tired to have sex (he of course was not abstinent).

I do not want my wedding night to be that, I’d much rather wait and have my wedding night be a memorable one than “just another night”.

 

[lo_amo87]

It isn’t an either/or thing. A couple can try new hobbies and activities and have a rich and fulfilling sex life. Just because a couple has an active sex life does not mean that they are focused on the wrong things. (And I have to say, if a couple’s sex life is getting in the way of them trying new hobbies and activities, then they must be very blessed. I’ve certainly never heard of that happening.) Sex does not take the place of open and honest communication, laughter, or anything else. It’s just one more thing that makes a relationship strong and wonderful.

If it is the case that couples who mutually choose to abstain aren’t hurting each other, then why is it that people come on here constantly saying how brokenhearted they are because NFP only allows them one day a month, if that? They mutually agreed to it, so there is no reason that they should be torn up about not being able to enjoy a marital embrace.

Your claim that a married couple is stronger when they agree not to have sex has not been verified by any scientific study or survey. In fact, its been shown over and over again that an active sex and a happy marriage go hand in hand.

Furthermore, I’ve noticed on this site and in real life that the people who advise others to be abstinent for years have never done it, but they are so sure that they could and that it would be just fine.

But how many couples who DO successfully use NFP are quite happy??? A lot. If not, NFP would not be used by millions of Catholics. And you have misquoted me, I did not say the marriage would be stronger without it, but if the couple is vigilant and prayerful, their marriage won’t suffer from it. Sure, couples are happy when there is an active sex life. But they can learn to be happy and satisfied without it if they come to the decision together.

While at this point in my life I do not have to make these difficult decisions, I have knowledge of other couples that have had to abstain because of health or other reasons. They find it difficult, but a fulfilling challenge that forces them to focus strongly on the other aspects of their partners that make them happy.

Also, if sex is just sex and really not a big deal to give up, then what could possibly be the point of waiting until marriage?

Are you really asking this question? Sex is a big deal when it’s done OUTSIDE of marriage for more obvious reasons than I care to get into and I think you’re smart enough to know already. When you have a normal, healthy couple that is married, sex is a wonderful thing. The icing on the cake. It is a wonderful part of marriage, but does NOT define it.

 

[Calliso]

the Church teaching is absolutely clear and unambiguous, no surgical sterilization procedure undergone by either the man or the woman for the purpose of preventing pregnancy is ever permitted under any circumstances.

You owe it to yourself to have a conversation with your priest before you undertake such a radical and often irreversible action, which may fail in any case to protect against what you fear.

The medical aspects that lead to pressure for such decisions can be complex and hard to understand. The most helpful source I have ever seen is DR. Anthony Dardano (sp?) who is the expert Judie Brown contacts on her pro-life Q&A column at EWTN.com, you might ask her directly for his contact information or search past responses to the types of difficulty your wife is facing.

No God won’t punish you but you may harm your marriage irretrievably as now sex will just be about sex, and not unity and procreation, any more and you may not see the damage done to intimacy and your relationship until years down the road. Plus you have now put your life on a footing where you no longer trust God to know what is best for you and that is the scariest thing of all.

Sorry not to nitpick but having a vascetomy doesn;t take the unitive part of sex out just the procreative. That is just a little bit unfair to say. Of course it doesn;t change the fact that it is still considered sinful to get a vascetomy but still.

 

[Calliso]

It isn’t an either/or thing. A couple can try new hobbies and activities and have a rich and fulfilling sex life. Just because a couple has an active sex life does not mean that they are focused on the wrong things. (And I have to say, if a couple’s sex life is getting in the way of them trying new hobbies and activities, then they must be very blessed. I’ve certainly never heard of that happening.) Sex does not take the place of open and honest communication, laughter, or anything else. It’s just one more thing that makes a relationship strong and wonderful.

If it is the case that couples who mutually choose to abstain aren’t hurting each other, then why is it that people come on here constantly saying how brokenhearted they are because NFP only allows them one day a month, if that? They mutually agreed to it, so there is no reason that they should be torn up about not being able to enjoy a marital embrace.

Your claim that a married couple is stronger when they agree not to have sex has not been verified by any scientific study or survey. In fact, its been shown over and over again that an active sex and a happy marriage go hand in hand.

Furthermore, I’ve noticed on this site and in real life that the people who advise others to be abstinent for years have never done it, but they are so sure that they could and that it would be just fine.

Yeah not to mention if a marriage has a healthy sex life there is a good chance that also means they have good honest communication. Cause that is a good part of what it takes. Yeah and I agree even if couples agree to abstain it can still hurt the marriage. Especially if they are only agreeing to abstain because ultimately they have no other choice! Agreeing to do something doesn;t mean you will be fine with whatever happens.

 

[Debora123]

You all are acting like I am telling him to get a vasectomy. I “charted” (is that a better word than calender?) when I used NFP and kept meticulous records on temperature with the correct kind of thermometer, checked my mucus, and breastfed to boot. The couple to couple league’s stats saying 99% effective is a farce-sorry but it’s true. Not something someone should trust with their life. Guess what, “NFP is the cure all” people, it didn’t work. 3 kids in 3 years, 2 from NFP. I love my kids and I’m happy to have them but my body needed a break (I had a c-section and was supposed to wait 10 months to get pregnant) it only “worked” for 6 months.

You can try to tell someone to abstain but they are only supposed to do it for “a time” with prayer according to St.Paul because Satan would tempt one or both spouses. Not only that the marriage suffers from lack of physical affection yet this guy would have to gamble with NFP or suffer temptation for not having sex with his wife for however many years it takes for her to go through menopause.

BOTTOM LINE: So you are telling this guy to trust NFP (which CAN and DOES fail) with his wife’s life and or abstain until she’s menopausal or he can risk hell with a vasectomy because if he did he would just be some pig that couldn’t control himself and didn’t want to get his wife pregnant while still wanting sex-sarcasm.

I don’t have a solution for him and I don’t think you should try to play “counselor” on this one either he needs not only professional medical advice but priestly advice not layperson “NFP is the way” advice. I think personally anyway he goes they can get messed over. (unless by some miracle his wife has the platelet thing fixed)

I know the early church had celibate spouses but alot of them only had sex till she was pregnant too. (I’ve read Ante-Nicene writings) But what would I or my spouse do if I were to have a c-section again? We don’t know. I won’t and can’t pretend to know what to tell this guy. He has my true sympathy and understanding. Whatever of the three he decides is between him, his wife, God and the church not us.

 

[agapewolf]

Sorry not to nitpick but having a vascetomy doesn;t take the unitive part of sex out just the procreative. That is just a little bit unfair to say. Of course it doesn;t change the fact that it is still considered sinful to get a vascetomy but still.

Yes it does. You can’t separate them. We are not souls trapped in a body, the body manifests the soul. What you do with the body is what you are doing with the soul. By the very nature of shutting off the physical gift, one shuts off the spiritual gift.

 

[Calliso]

Yes it does. You can’t separate them. We are not souls trapped in a body, the body manifests the soul. What you do with the body is what you are doing with the soul. By the very nature of shutting off the physical gift, one shuts off the spiritual gift.

I will have to disagree taking away the procreative part of sex can but doesn;t always take away the rest of its meaning. Otherwise everyone who got sterilized or was on the pill and so on would have dissappointing sex lives and trust me that isn;t the case! Things are not that black and white.

 

[Castello]

I will have to disagree taking away the procreative part of sex can but doesn;t always take away the rest of its meaning. Otherwise everyone who got sterilized or was on the pill and so on would have dissappointing sex lives and trust me that isn;t the case! Things are not that black and white.

When people choose to remove God from their marriage bed, to follow the way of deception instead of the way of Truth, they stumble around in the darkness and mistake pleasure for happiness.

 

[defenderoftruth]

The Bible even makes it clear that we are not to neglect our partners physical needs. Yes, we can go without sex. No, it will no physically harm us. But, long term rejection and physical abandonment by a partner hurts. It hurts the individuals and it hurts the relationship. No, sex isn’t everything. But, it is something. Even the chemicals that are released in our bodies during sex are there to remind us to stay with this person.

As for Priests and Nuns, they didn’t make a lifelong commitment to a partner that does include a sexual commitment. They don’t go to bed with someone every night. In fact, they have made a commitment not to have sex and be romantically involved with anyone.

Sexless relationships hurt. They make people feel disconnected. Sex is the greatest show of love and affection there is. You cannot take that out of a marriage and expect things not to change drastically. To refrain from sex for a decade or more is nothing less than emotional violence.

I never in my wildest dreams thought I’d ever agree with an athiest. Abstaining causes great amounts of temptation hence St. Paul’s admonition “for a time with prayer” (or Satan will tempt you) and could ruin your marriage. I think it’s a heart condition. He’s not planning on getting a vasectomy because they don’t want kids themselves but because of his wife’s life would be in danger. Some are called to celibacy some aren’t and it can REALLY hurt a marriage. Abstaining-could hurt marriage, NFP-can possibly produce more children and kill wife, or vasectomy-mortal sin (hell). Not good, or easy choices.

It really urks me the “you aren’t trusting God” thing there are all kinds of people that “trust God” and die still. Just “trusting God” doesn’t guarantee no pregnancy. (and heaping that on someone as a guilt trip is totally wrong). NFP is actually a trusting God thing because we trusted God left life open with NFP and he saw fit to give us more children will we take that chance if I have to have another c-section?-don’t know. We aren’t Roman Catholic either we are Anglicans that don’t believe in birth control but when it comes to the health and ONLY the health of a spouse some methods might not be out of the question (I’m NOT talking about artificial birth control) or sterilization unless my life is at stake-life long medical condition like this guy’s wife.-would I consider this.

Call me evil, call me “leaving the party line” (since you all have seen me take the canonical view on most everything on here.) But things change when you are faced with potential death yourself. (and no I would never change my mind about abortion if I did get pregnant that child’s life would be before mine.)

If I have to have a c-section when my son decides to come forth I will be faced with what we should do as a couple to maintain our marital bond without putting undo upset on my husband or my body to stay safe till I can SAFELY get pregnant again. So I don’t and won’t judge this guy-at all. Like I said a life long medical condition that is worsening is what he’s dealing with a short term decision is what I would be dealing with but they have alot in common and I think people while trying to help him avoid sin should tread lightly and not be too harsh. He loves his wife that much is clear. Would Satan love to tempt him with adultery while he waits the YEARS it takes for her to go menopausal. I’m sure he would. I feel very very sad for this couple having to deal with this.