Vasectomy

[Harrison]

Please don’t consider the following to be an attempt to rationalize by me. My response is simply to address your statement that includes the phrase, “There is nothing in the act…” Sin is far more than actions. Thoughts and intentions can be every bit as sinful as any act. Scripture is replete with references to sin of the heart, mind, and body. Jesus our Lord taught us that if we even look at another woman with lust in our hearts, we have committed the sin of adultery. If we even look at a brother in anger, we’ve committed murder. So, to say that there is nothing in the act of NFP that goes against life is not accurate.

NFP has as its INTENT the very same thing that structurally and functionally is accomplished by vasectomy and birth control pills, respectively. NFP is man’s attempt to “guess” at when the right moment for egg release and sperm availability will be reached, then avoid a certain behavior to prevent it. ** It is man’s way of avoiding what God has put into the natural order of things and what He has ordained to occur when Man and Wife come together.**

The Church cannot on the one hand say that, among the virtues of NFP, is its extremely high success rate when practiced as recommended (i.e., it is very successful at preventing pregnancy), then on the other hand say that because it isn’t 100% successful, and by attaching the descriptor “Natural” in the FP moniker, that somehow it isn’t sinful.

Again, I am not saying that I am right. I have sinned and I am seeking forgiveness by confessing my sin to God and seeking His amazing Grace. I am saying, however, that NFP must be likewise sinful because it has its intent the very same thing that will result by my actions: the artificial manipulation of God’s natural order to accomplish Man’s objectives.

I do think that what makes this sin seem so painful is that it is so obviously an act. What it has reminded me of, however, is that the sin of the heart, the sin within each of us that cannot be seen or known by others, is every bit as deadly to the spirit of a person, every bit as dirty and painful. Perhaps at least I will remember this and really try to address my thoughts, my intentions, when I decide to act in the future.

Very sad, confused, and frustrated.

It is important to remember that NFP by itself is amoral, meaning it is neither moral or immoral. NFP becomes moral or immoral based on how it is used. NFP is nothing other than an observance of the women’s natural fertility cycle. Couples may always mutually decide to abstain from relations at any time. The Church teaches that if a couple has a serious (grave) reason to avoid having a child, they may observe the woman’s cycle (use NFP) and abstain from relations on those days where she is most fertile - again only for a serious reason. The difference between NFP and contraception is that contraception artificially separates the two ends of the conjugal act - mutual love and procreation - from one another. NFP does not do that. The woman’s body has natural built in periods where she cannot conceive. Intent with NFP comes from the people using it, not from NFP itself. NFP can also be used to achieve pregnancy as well.

I do hear too many people say “NFP is 99% effective at avoiding pregnancy” and other such things. It is definitely portrayed as Catholic contraception in many places.

Also, to answer your other question, I do not have specific scriptural references to what I said, I was basing my answer on my knowledge of moral theology, which of course has basis in scripture. I will see what I can find for you.

 

[Christian_Gump]

The difference between NFP and contraception is that contraception artificially separates the two ends of the conjugal act - mutual love and procreation - from one another. NFP does not do that.

Thanks again for your (name removed by moderator)ut. Contrary to how I may sound, I really do appreciate your thoughts. I would love to get the scripture references. My concern now isn’t whether I did something wrong or not…it’s how I repair the damage I know I have done to myself.

For the sake of clarity, however, I really do need to address your statement. I respectfully disagree that NFP doesn’t separate the two ends of the conjugal act. It is designed precisely to do just that. Not with scalpels or hormones, mind you, but with calendars and plans. That’s really all I’m saying.

Please pray for me that I come to peace with this. I am truly sorry and am asking The Lord for forgiveness. It’s that I don’t know how to repent. Christ said, “Go and sin no more.” How do I do that here?

 

[lovemysix]

Thanks again for your (name removed by moderator)ut. Contrary to how I may sound, I really do appreciate your thoughts. I would love to get the scripture references. My concern now isn’t whether I did something wrong or not…it’s how I repair the damage I know I have done to myself.

For the sake of clarity, however, I really do need to address your statement. I respectfully disagree that NFP doesn’t separate the two ends of the conjugal act. It is designed precisely to do just that. Not with scalpels or hormones, mind you, but with calendars and plans. That’s really all I’m saying.

Please pray for me that I come to peace with this. I am truly sorry and am asking The Lord for forgiveness. It’s that I don’t know how to repent. Christ said, “Go and sin no more.” How do I do that here?

Simple: Don’t have another vasectomy

I’m not trying to make light of your situation, truly. But you say you are truly sorry and are asking for forgiveness. Isn’t that repenting? What more do you think God is asking of you?

If it is atonement you are looking for, I would suggest discussing this with your priest in your next confession. He may have some good ideas about concrete things you can do to atone: deepen your prayer life, fast, etc.

Whatever you do, though, don’t punish your wife by acting weird about making love to her (I’m not saying you do that!). Once a sin has been confessed, you are truly forgiven of it. It has been wiped away by Christ’s death by the cross. I personally think it is a bit insulting to Christ to keep beating yourself up for something you did in your past and have confessed, considering how much He suffered so that we wouldn’t have to. You say you are “damaged”, but the reality is that Christ has made you whole, once you have confessed.

If you feel called to have a vasectomy reversal, then by all means research your options. Definitely make sure your wife is included in your decision-making. And know that a reversal is NOT required by the Church.

God bless.

 

[bkropp]

Anybody?

 

[Harrison]

Thank you so much for your reply. Could you point me to some Scriptural references for this atonement?

Here is the article on Restitution from St. Thomas Aquinas’ Summa Theologica.

newadvent.org/summa/3062.htm#article2

Honestly I do not have any good scripture passages for atoning for one’s own sins, but the above article will give you good reading on the subject.

 

[Harrison]

Anybody?

Click the Help dropdown menu at the top of the page and click ‘contact us’ and ask about getting your name changed.

 

[budgie2]

I hope this doesn’t hurt. I do not agree with Christian Gump saying that NFP is equal to vasectomy or sterilisation. A person who has had a sterilisation cannot get pregnant without reversal however a couple using NFP can. A person who is sterilised has damaged their sexual organs. A couple who uses NFP has not physically damaged any part of their body. However, if I abuse NFP then this is also a sin. If you feel that you are called to have a reversal then do so but it might not be appropriate if your wife does not want any more children. Not all reversals are safe or may work. My dad also had a vasectomy and am not condemning you but it is a serious venial sin although you can also receive Confession and absolution. In your case vasectomy may have been in accordance with conscience as vasectomy is most probably more ethical than birth control pills which can act as an abortifacient in some cases.

 

[budgie2]

ps. A person who has had a vasectomy has put a knife to his testicles or damaged his testicles. The reasons he has done this may be conscious or subconscious and it may be a hatred of masculinity or some form of self hatred. The testicles also produce testosterone so you may also be trying to damage your testosterone levels aswell. Here are some of the reasons I have seen or can think of: difficulty in controlling agression or difficulty in feeling faithful or controlling feelings of lust. Vasectomy is not the worst form of sterilisation. Tubal litigation is worse as it could increase the risk of ectopic pregnancy so it might be in accordance with your conscience to have a vasectomy if your wife does not want to have children and is taking birth control pills or would have an abortion. Tubal litigation is damage to the fallopian tubes. I would not recommend it for anybody but it is also justifiable for a woman who would have an abortion. I do not know you personally so I’m not trying to get my own back.

 

[turtle18]

As others have posted, if you’ve been to Confession, then you don’t need to have it reversed (this is what our parish pastor said.)

However, since you cannot be open to live in the natural way, have you ever thought about being open to live in a different way–maybe taking in a foster child or if you could afford it (which doesn’t seem like it) adopt a child?

There are so many children who have no one to take care of them, love them, or nuture them. I think it would be a beautiful thing if all those who truly regret their decision to sterilize would at least be open to these other possibilities. God’s love is so great–he forgives us all our sins, no matter what they are–wouldn’t it be a wonderful thing to share that love with another human being by taking on the role of their parents?

 

[Newbie2]

Please don’t consider the following to be an attempt to rationalize by me. My response is simply to address your statement that includes the phrase, “There is nothing in the act…” Sin is far more than actions. Thoughts and intentions can be every bit as sinful as any act. Scripture is replete with references to sin of the heart, mind, and body. Jesus our Lord taught us that if we even look at another woman with lust in our hearts, we have committed the sin of adultery. If we even look at a brother in anger, we’ve committed murder. So, to say that there is nothing in the act of NFP that goes against life is not accurate.

What is it that goes against life (NFP)? The intent is to not have babies at that particular time, and there is nothing changed about the act. It is not contra-ceptive . Not wanting to have babies by itself is not sinful, nor is using the woman’s natural body cycles to plan pregnancies. I understand your understanding of intent, but intent to not have babies by acting against conception and the intent not to have babies but leaving open the possiblilty of conception are two distinctly different intents.

NFP has as its INTENT the very same thing that structurally and functionally is accomplished by vasectomy and birth control pills, respectively. NFP is man’s attempt to “guess” at when the right moment for egg release and sperm availability will be reached, then avoid a certain behavior to prevent it. ** It is man’s way of avoiding what God has put into the natural order of things and what He has ordained to occur when Man and Wife come together.**

God has not ordained that every act of intercourse end in pregnancy, that’s why woman’s cycle is infertile at times! It is clearly not God’s intent, nor does the Church teach, that one should have unlimited numbers of children, unless one feels like they want a huge family (one meaning the married couple, of course).

Although the goal is to avoid pregnancy at that time, there is no modification of the act or the physiology or anatomy of either the man or woman with NFP.

The Church cannot on the one hand say that, among the virtues of NFP, is its extremely high success rate when practiced as recommended (i.e., it is very successful at preventing pregnancy), then on the other hand say that because it isn’t 100% successful, and by attaching the descriptor “Natural” in the FP moniker, that somehow it isn’t sinful.

It’s not the “natural” aspect that’s crucial here. It’s actively acting against conception. Abstaining during fertile periods is not contra-ception. That is key to understanding the theology.

Again, I am not saying that I am right. I have sinned and I am seeking forgiveness by confessing my sin to God and seeking His amazing Grace. I am saying, however, that NFP must be likewise sinful because it has its intent the very same thing that will result by my actions: the artificial manipulation of God’s natural order to accomplish Man’s objectives.

Again, the intent is different if one allows for the possibility of the marital act to end in conception and if one actively does something to hinder that conception. Not having intercourse during fertile periods is omission, and since we are not compelled to have as many babies as possible, it is not a sinful omission.

I do think that what makes this sin seem so painful is that it is so obviously an act. What it has reminded me of, however, is that the sin of the heart, the sin within each of us that cannot be seen or known by others, is every bit as deadly to the spirit of a person, every bit as dirty and painful. Perhaps at least I will remember this and really try to address my thoughts, my intentions, when I decide to act in the future.

Very sad, confused, and frustrated.

I understand. Don’t feel condemned by your action. Ask for forgiveness, you’ll get it.

 

[TLM08]

I know a vasectomy is a sin.

Before I received greater understanding of the church and knowledge and understanding of Catholic teaching, I had a vasectomy to keep from having further children for financial reasons.

Now I know the evils of my action and constantly worry about the effects this has had on my salvation even after going to confession.

I want to have surgeory to correct it but have been told it is quite expensive.

So, should I be celebate since I cannot have kids with my wife until I can afford to reverse my vasectomy?

*Also I would not mind seeing this thread stray from my question if it is to help someone else so long as I can get some response here.

God Bless

Jack

According to catholic teaching, in the sacrament of confession your sin has been forgiven.
I had a vascectomy under very similar circumstances. Furthermore, my wife had health issues that would make another pregnancy quite risky. It made no moral sense to put my wife’s health and possibly her very life at risk and celibacy was simply not an option.

“Scrupulosity” is a mental disorder that seems to be working on you. Again, this is something I struggled with. Your duty to your wife now is to be the best father to your children you can be. Your duty to your wife is to be the best husband you can be, and that includes giving her the best “loving” you can!

 

[budgie2]

I agree with above that you are not asked to abstain from sex following a vasectomy as your sex life is still unitive. You are not actually harming anybody by making love, a vasectomy simply removes the sperm from the semen and it would be more harmful for your relationship to abstain needlessly as you have promised to love and to cherish each other and be faithful to each other. A married couple also have conjugal rights. Although reversal is not a requirement, I would say that if a couple have true sorrow for the children that they would have had without sterilisation and feel currently that they are able to accept and welcome more children, then reversal may be right for that couple. I would see true sorrow for not having more children as being true repentance for vasectomy based on my dad’s experience. NFP is not to be aspired to and not all Catholics practice abstinence and some Catholics rely on prayer.

 

[tmeier45]

I’ve done some similar questioning with different Catholics, Catholic doctors, etc. like Christian Gump, and am considering a vasectomy. I’m 31 with 4 children, but my reasons are not because I do not want more children. I’d take 20 if that was the Lord’s intention. But the reason is medically. My wife’s complications with childbirth have worsened each time she’s delivered. My son (#3) is handicapped due to the complications, and the youngest was born premature and was in the hospital for a very long time. Both children they had to recessitate back to life, and it’s a miracle the youngest doesn’t have any mental or physical issues like my son does (except that she’s a tiny little pumpkin). My son will most likely live with us the rest of our lives. I know with how many therapies, etc. that my wife has to take him to, another child (if it survived) would be too much for my wife to handle.

While in the hospital just after #4 was born and placed in the NICU, my wife decided to get a hysterectomy. However, both I and her nurse (who coincidentally just happened to be our NFP instructor) talked her out of it. But then a few weeks later, my wife’s “catholic OBGYN” talked her into having a myrena (IUD) inserted into her vagina , which I’ve been completely against. Her reasons were fear, and it completely stressed her out knowing that the next child doesn’t have much of a chance of surviving. There wasn’t anything I could do to talk her out of it. Of course her OBGYN told her that she recommended the myrena because it didn’t abort the fetus if she did become pregnant, but I found information to the contrary.

So here’s where my hypocracy kicks in, and I’ve been struggling with this so much. I decided that I didn’t want to risk her getting pregnant because the myrena would abort the baby. So I bought condoms. Prior to that debacle I was unofficially on strike and not having sex with my wife. But I guess I didn’t have the grace St. Joseph did to be celebate, and I missed making love to my wife. The strangest thing happend though, our relationship got better and I found my wife wanting to make love on a more frequent basis (before is was few and far between).

So now I’m at a crossroad. I’m tired of not being able to receive Communion (because of the contraceptive I’m using - which I’m against - hence my hypocracy). I’m tired of my wife having that myrena copper ring in her, causing her to sin. The only thing I can come up with is for me to get a vasectomy (which I am against, but I don’t see really any other choice). I feel like I’m trying to commit the lesser evil.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

One thought re. vasectomy reversals: I remember reading back in some Couple to Couple literature that there may be some health issues resulting from vasectomies.Has there been any new research?

 

[kage_ar]

am not condemning you but it is a serious venial sin although you can also receive Confession and absolution. In your case vasectomy may have been in accordance with conscience as vasectomy is most probably more ethical than birth control pills which can act as an abortifacient in some cases.

Please provide the official teaching of the Church that supports these claims.

 

[Linda_Marie]

Does anyone know how to change my Screen Name? I don’t want my last name up there.
The discussion you are having is severely important, and I am stuggling with issues with a family member right now.
Thanks

You have to re-register under a new name. There is no way to change an existing screen name.

 

[budgie2]

I’ve done some similar questioning with different Catholics, Catholic doctors, etc. like Christian Gump, and am considering a vasectomy. I’m 31 with 4 children, but my reasons are not because I do not want more children. I’d take 20 if that was the Lord’s intention. But the reason is medically. My wife’s complications with childbirth have worsened each time she’s delivered. My son (#3) is handicapped due to the complications, and the youngest was born premature and was in the hospital for a very long time. Both children they had to recessitate back to life, and it’s a miracle the youngest doesn’t have any mental or physical issues like my son does (except that she’s a tiny little pumpkin). My son will most likely live with us the rest of our lives. I know with how many therapies, etc. that my wife has to take him to, another child (if it survived) would be too much for my wife to handle.

While in the hospital just after #4 was born and placed in the NICU, my wife decided to get a hysterectomy. However, both I and her nurse (who coincidentally just happened to be our NFP instructor) talked her out of it. But then a few weeks later, my wife’s “catholic OBGYN” talked her into having a myrena (IUD) inserted into her vagina , which I’ve been completely against. Her reasons were fear, and it completely stressed her out knowing that the next child doesn’t have much of a chance of surviving. There wasn’t anything I could do to talk her out of it. Of course her OBGYN told her that she recommended the myrena because it didn’t abort the fetus if she did become pregnant, but I found information to the contrary.

So here’s where my hypocracy kicks in, and I’ve been struggling with this so much. I decided that I didn’t want to risk her getting pregnant because the myrena would abort the baby. So I bought condoms. Prior to that debacle I was unofficially on strike and not having sex with my wife. But I guess I didn’t have the grace St. Joseph did to be celebate, and I missed making love to my wife. The strangest thing happend though, our relationship got better and I found my wife wanting to make love on a more frequent basis (before is was few and far between).

So now I’m at a crossroad. I’m tired of not being able to receive Communion (because of the contraceptive I’m using - which I’m against - hence my hypocracy). I’m tired of my wife having that myrena copper ring in her, causing her to sin. The only thing I can come up with is for me to get a vasectomy (which I am against, but I don’t see really any other choice). I feel like I’m trying to commit the lesser evil.

Could your wife not consider talking to the Couple to Couples League or looking for NFP classes? There are also fertility monitors produced by Clearplan/Clearblue on the market although not the cheapest option. You could search on Google. There’s also a new product called Ovacue on the market produced by Zetek but only available on the Internet as far as I know. I wouldn’t consider a vasectomy if you could switch to a more ethical means of preventing pregnancy. I’m not a priest so it might be worth speaking to your priest. I also have two brothers who are disabled and from a family of three, although they have a mental handicap and I always wanted to have more brothers and sisters. My biggest fear would be having to be the sole relative for them when my parents have died but hopefully they’ll live a long live. You could wait for a while until you feel more able to face pregnancy.

 

[mark_a]

I had a vasectomy last Friday (May 15, 2009) after doing a lot of research on the medical safety of the procedure and after consulting many friends who love the Lord. I’m in the medical field and my close friend, a physician and Catholic, also talked to me about it recently. He had the procedure several years ago and is apparently quite at peace with it. I also consulted other Catholic men and a Protestant minister who also had the procedure performed, and they too were happy with their procedure.

It’s strange, though. I don’t feel the same anymore. I’ve tried very hard to reconcile my decision: that it was for my wife and me (she really didn’t want more children, but I did, so I submitted in part to her wishes), that it would allow us to focus on our two beautiful children, that I am now 45 years old, and that it was just a simple procedure. Rationalization, I now know.

Even though she had been on birth control pills for 11 of our 13 years of marriage, there was the possibility of reversibility; i.e., she could stop at anytime and we could get pregnant. Now, though, I’ve closed the book on that. I’ve made the decision to take something out of me that wasn’t broken. And I’m finding myself thinking of the child that I’ll never have now, instead of focusing on the blessings given to me through the gift of the children I DO have.

Even though I’ve been given scripture quotes supporting both sides of the argument, I can’t help but feel different, as though I killed a part of my life.

I am profoundly sorry for what I’ve done and have actually thought about getting it reversed asap, but I don’t know if I’m acting irrationally or not. Even if I do get it reversed, my wife will not agree to becoming pregnant again. So, I’m stuck. Sorry and stuck.

The first question I’m trying to answer is, “Is it truly a sin?” I know the Church teaches that any kind of contraception, other than NFP, is intentionally trying to prevent a life from forming and is, therefore, a sin. My independent thought, however, is that NFP must too be a sin, as its primary objective is the prevention of pregnancy. Reversibility aside, it too seeks to prevent a new life.

However, my heart is obviously troubled by my decision and I feel great pain (spiritual) at the moment, so now I need to determine if my thoughts are actually my conscience informing me to ask for forgiveness and repent, OR are being planted by the enemy and his desire to see me separated from God.

More than anything, I pray for peace about my action.

Thank you very much for reading my story and for your advice.

Sorry for your loss.

Even though I’ve been given scripture quotes supporting both sides of the argument, I can’t help but feel different, as though I killed a part of my life.

Would you give us the scripture quotes that support sterilization?

 

[budgie2]

Please provide the official teaching of the Church that supports these claims.

I do not have official Church teaching although the pro-life organisation called SPUC overhere consider the contraceptive pill to be abortifacient in some cases. Abortifacient means causing abortion. A vasectomy is not abortifacient as it removes sperm from sperm count before it can succeed in fertilising an egg (as far as I know). Vasectomy is only contraceptive. An abortifacient is more harmful than a true contraceptive which only prevents egg and sperm from fertilising. I think most priests would agree with me that abortifacient or causing abortion is worse than contraception which prevents conception before it takes place.

Abortifacient:
Surgical abortion
Early abortion pill
Morning after pill/Emergency contraception (probably as contraceptive/abortifacient as contraceptive pill as could also prevent fertilisation by ejecting sperm)
Contraceptive pill-Progesterone only (more abortifacient than the combined oral contraceptive)
Combined Oral Contraceptive
Spermicide

I don’t know about IUDs or less commonly used forms of contraception. I’ve heard IUDs are very abortifacient. Spermicide has a minor abortifacient element as could damage sperm which could succeed in fertilising an egg thereby causing abortion. We should look for non-spermicidal condoms.

Contraceptive:
Non-spermicidal, non-lubricated condom - I don’t know what chemicals they use to lubricate condoms so it is preferable to also choose non-lubricated.
Vasectomy and Tubal Litigation. There might be increased risk of ectopic pregnancy with botched female sterilisations so female sterilisation is less pro-life.

If a contraceptive is used on a woman’s body there is greater risk of it being abortifacient as pregnancy occurs in the woman’s body. Stick to male based contraceptives such as condom, vasectomy.

 

[kage_ar]

Budgie -

Let’s try this again. You stated two things, that vasectomy is a venial sin and that vasectomy is more ethical than birth control pills.

Please back up these two claims. If you cannot show where these are teachings, it would be charitable to retract these claims.

"am not condemning you but it is a serious venial sin although you can also receive Confession and absolution. "
“In your case vasectomy may have been in accordance with conscience as vasectomy is most probably more ethical than birth control pills which can act as an abortifacient in some cases.”