Vat 2 eliminated man-made mysteries?

[Scottgun]

From a Life Teen Liturgical Planning Guide:

In the days before the Vatican Council, the Church was so

concerned that mystery be preserved that it cloaked the
mysteries Jesus revealed to us. When man-made mysteries
were eliminated by the Liturgical reforms of the Second
Vatican Council, many people still complain that the mystery
was being eliminated. This is incorrect. The mystery is
more intense than ever because it is directly in front of us.

What are these man-made mysteries referred to here? The context never elaborates. Thanks.

 

[japhy]

In the days before the Vatican Council, the Church was so concerned that mystery be preserved that it cloaked the mysteries Jesus revealed to us. When man-made mysteries were eliminated by the Liturgical reforms of the Second Vatican Council, many people still complain that the mystery was being eliminated. This is incorrect. The mystery is more intense than ever because it is directly in front of us.What are these man-made mysteries referred to here? The context never elaborates.

Judging by the language, perhaps they’re referring to things such as:

• Parts of the Mass spoken silently.* The Mass being spoken in Latin.* The priest facing the tabernacle, the same direction as the people.* The numerous gestures (signs of the cross, genuflections, etc.) made by the priest and servers and people.
  But I don’t know for sure, because the manual doesn’t say. It calls something “man-made” without specifying it.

Too bad the Second Vatican Council didn’t say that the Mass should be spoken out loud, that Latin should be removed, and that the priest should face the people; it did mention eliminating some of the repeated elements (which could be taken to include the multiple signs of the cross and genuflections).

 

[Scottgun]

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. Anyone else? I guess I am bothered most by the “man-made” part (even if technically true) in the sense that it sounds too close to the “man-made doctrines” we hear from certain non-Catholic quarters.

 

[japhy]

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. Anyone else? I guess I am bothered most by the “man-made” part (even if technically true) in the sense that it sounds too close to the “man-made doctrines” we hear from certain non-Catholic quarters.

It sounds like they’re trying to say the post-conciliar liturgy is more “God-made” than the pre-conciliar liturgy which was “man-made”. On the contrary, I think the older liturgy was far more divinely inspired and presented the mystery of faith very well; the new liturgy seems to me more concocted. True, the newer liturgy (the “Ordinary Form”) can be celebrated reverently and solemnly and with a sense of mystery, but there are very few parishes that do so.

 

[benedictgal]

I had my suspicions about the kind of things that LifeTeen is teaching the kids. Scottgun, you’ve confirmed my worst fears. Not only is what you quoted a seriously gross misunderstanding of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, it perpetuates the myth that that no one understood the Mass. Contrast what LifeTeen says with what Cardinal Arinze said during an address in Washington, D.C.:

The night before He freely gave His life for us in the sacrifice of the Cross, Jesus at the Last Supper gave to the Church the wonderful sacrifice and sacrament of the Holy Eucharist. He turned bread and wine into His Body and Blood. He gave the Apostles power to do the same: “Do this in remembrance of me” (Lk 22:19). And He gave them His Body to eat and His Blood to drink. Thus, the Council of Trent (1545-1563) teaches us, Jesus wanted “to leave to His beloved spouse the Church a visible sacrifice (as the nature of man demands) by which the bloody sacrifice which He was to accomplish once for all on the cross would be re-presented, its memory perpetuated until the end of the world, and its salutary power be applied to the forgiveness of the sins we daily commit” (Council of Trent, DS 1740; cf also 1 Cor 11:23; Heb 7:24, 27; Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1366; Ecclesia De Euchcharistia., 11, 12).

As sacrament, the Holy Eucharist is the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ who is truly, really and substantially present (cf Council of Trent: DS 1651). We receive him in Holy Communion.

The Eucharistic celebration, this ritual sacramental celebration of the paschal mystery of Christ, also called the sacrifice of the Mass, is the supreme act of the public worship of the Church. It is “the fount and apex of the whole Christian life” (Lumen Gentium, 10). It is an action that involves the whole Church on earth, in heaven and in purgatory. And it has Jesus Christ as its Chief Priest and Victim. Indeed, it is He who through the Eucharistic mystery links earth to heaven, as the rest of this paper will strive to show.

This is clearly 180 degrees to the right of

In the days before the Vatican Council, the Church was so concerned that mystery be preserved that it cloaked the mysteries Jesus revealed to us. When man-made mysteries were eliminated by the Liturgical reforms of the Second Vatican Council, many people still complain that the mystery was being eliminated. This is incorrect. The mystery is more intense than ever because it is directly in front of us.

Actually, the mystery is not any more intense simply because it is in front of us, as this passage would mistakenly lead kids to believe. Remember what Jesus told Thomas, “Blessed are those who believe without seeing.” What the above quote seems to indicate is that the mystery is dependent on our seeing it. It makes the community the great actor in all of this instead of the Lord.

No wonder the faith of many kids has been negatively challanged (as many posters in other LifeTeen-oriented threads have commented). If this is the kind of doctrine that LifeTeen is teaching then this is most troubling.

There is only one valid statement from the LifeTeen except: many people still complain that the mystery was being eliminated.

 

[benedictgal]

It sounds like they’re trying to say the post-conciliar liturgy is more “God-made” than the pre-conciliar liturgy which was “man-made”. On the contrary, I think the older liturgy was far more divinely inspired and presented the mystery of faith very well; the new liturgy seems to me more concocted. True, the newer liturgy (the “Ordinary Form”) can be celebrated reverently and solemnly and with a sense of mystery, but there are very few parishes that do so.

You are definitely on taget there, my friend. Furthermore, the language was much more beautiful and poetic. And, the prayers date back to antiquity, as Cardinal Arinze said in a speech to a group of liturgists:

Liturgical celebrations have some elements which are of divine institution. Such are the essentials of the seven sacraments. There are elements which are of ecclesial institution. In deciding on these elements the Church takes great care to be faithful to Holy Scripture, to honor the tradition handed down through the centuries, to manifest her faith and rejoice in it, and to lead all the faithful to worship of God, following the example of Christ, and showing love and service of one’s neighbor. Between these two we can speak of a third: namely, those elements of the liturgy which are found from early days in all or almost all of the great liturgical traditions and which must therefore go back at the very least to a period close to the apostles, and perhaps even to Our Lord. While we may not have certain knowledge on the matter in a given case, it is a strong reason for avoiding hasty innovation or neglect. (cf Varietates Legitimae [VL] 26-27, General Instruction of the Roman Missal [GIRM] 397, Liturgiam authenticam [LA] 4-5, Redemptionis Sacramentum [RS] 9)

Liturgical celebrations should be experiences of the traditional faith that is confessed, celebrated and communicated, of hope that is expressed and confirmed and of charity that is sung and lived.

If these are man-made mysteries, as the LT liturgical planning guide suggests, then, they are omitting the fact that these prayers and traditions have their foundation to the time of the Apostles, who received their ministry directly from the Lord. The LT statement appears to also reject Cardinal Arinze’s “divine institution” statement.

The man-made mysteries also sound very Protestant because that is the same charge that Protestants continually make against Catholics.

I am most curious as to whether or not the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has even seen this planning guide. It clearly goes against everything that the post-conciliar popes, especially John Paul II and Benedict XVI have taught regarding the Mass.

 

[Walking_Home]

From a Life Teen Liturgical Planning Guide:

What are these man-made mysteries referred to here? The context never elaborates. Thanks.

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Well - I guess that is one way to taint the minds of the young against the TLM.