Vatican 2 is the reason I'm alive!

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Dougbro1

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DISCLAIMER: I don’t know whether this is the right topic for this to be under, so if someone knows a better place for this, like in Apologetics, can someone who can move it do so? Thanks.

@ReaderT suggested I put this on a separate thread.

So, here goes.

I know there are a lot of people who criticize Vatican 2, and the decisions that were made during this council, but if Vatican 2 never came to pass, I would not be typing this today. I would not be typing anything today. Here’s why.

My grandfather was a priest before Vatican 2. He said many Latin masses. When Vatican 2 came to pass, these were replaced with Novus Ordo masses.

This was a big change, and Pope John XXIII knew this, and because of this, he allowed priests the option to be pardoned from the priesthood permanently. Now, this happens extremely rarely. It’s not every council that popes would do this.

My grandfather was one of those priests who chose to be pardoned, and he married the woman, who ironically happened to be his secretary.

They had 4 children, and the second of their children is my father, who married and had me, and 11 other children, with one more on the way.

Thanks for reading, and if you are skeptical towards V2, just know it’s not all bad. This is also the reason I am sympathetic towards Vatican 2.
 
Thank you for sharing. We hear many stories of priests leaving the priesthood around this time, often in hushed tones and whispers, as if they were doing something under the table or against the Church. It’s like many other things we discuss here - the casual Catholic in the pew probably doesn’t realize this pardoning was granted. Bless these men who followed their consciences and made what I’m sure were difficult decisions.
 
Wow! Well we are glad you are here:) I am sure God has a special job for you xx
 
Interestingly, around that time there were a lot of men questioning their vocation.
Even among the Protestants, who were allowed to marry, a lot of them felt displaced, or they loved God and weren’t sure active ministry was the way to do it, or they felt irrelevant.

People today really don’t understand just how much of a change society went through at that time and it affected EVERYBODY—regardless of race or creed or social status.

Thank you for sharing your testimony 🙂❤️
 
My grandfather was a priest before Vatican 2. He said many Latin masses. When Vatican 2 came to pass, these were replaced with Novus Ordo masses.
This was a big change, and Pope John XXIII knew this, and because of this, he allowed priests the option to be pardoned from the priesthood permanently. Now, this happens extremely rarely. It’s not every council that popes would do this.
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CajunJoy - - I was just thinking the same thing!
If this happened, it would be a mighty strange admission (in my opinion) that this was a COMPLETELY different thing than what those priests signed up for.
Anyone have a citation, a news story, anything? I personally have never heard of this.
 
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I think it was because he knew that the Novus Ordo mass was a big change, and big changes are not easy for some men to adapt to. I think that was the case for my grandfather. Yes, it was likely that he knew priests would be uncomfortable with it, but I see how it opened doors for people to evangelize.
 
I mean, but your grandfather could have left the priesthood before Vatican II as well, right? It’s not like it’s never done.
 
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I am told my grandfather was a pious man. I think he trusted the Church. After all, he still took his kids to Mass.
 
Okay , but where is a citation or news story, or anything about this “pardoning”? I’m wondering if this is some kind of family legend that isn’t 100% true?
 
What pardoning was this? Where is a document about it? What year did this happen?
There’s tons of information written about Vatican II, and I can’t find anything about it?
 
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Thank you for sharing this story with us. There can’t be many posters here at CAF who can boast of being the grandchild of a priest. You’re almost certainly the only one!
 
That is a rare claim to fame, Dougbro!
Dougbro1 said:
My grandfather was a priest before Vatican 2. He said many Latin masses. When Vatican 2 came to pass, these were replaced with Novus Ordo masses.

This was a big change, and Pope John XXIII knew this, and because of this, he allowed priests the option to be pardoned from the priesthood permanently. Now, this happens extremely rarely. It’s not every council that popes would do this.
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Though I might suggest another reason for pro gratia laisizations around that time. Vatican II put great emphasis on right intention, full freedom and spiritual and human maturity as characteristics of valid ordination. Prior to VII lots of males went to minor seminaries for education at the age of 12 at their parents wishes. It happened quite a bit that it wasn’t a ‘fully free’ decision in the way we understand it now, to proceed to ordination. It was possibly in this environment where different emphasis was put on priestly formation that the ‘favour’ of laizication was granted to men ordained prior to the new emphasis and who were struggling without the grace of true vocation.

Church Documents on Priestly Formation - Vocations - Catholic Online

Read the Church documents on priestly formation here. Documents included here are from the Vatican, Holy See, and the Sacred Congregation for Catholic Education.
www.catholic.org www.catholic.org
 
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After Vatican II Paul VI issued an encyclical on celibacy. (he had reserved the subject during the Council, asking the bishops not to discuss it) It reaffirmed the traditional discipline, but there is a paragraph or two on dispensations. Below is one of the paragraphs:
There are some whose priesthood cannot be saved, but whose serious dispositions nevertheless give promise of their being able to live as good Christian lay people. To these the Holy See, having studied all the circumstances with their bishops or with their religious superiors, sometimes grants a dispensation, thus letting love conquer sorrow. In order, however, that her unhappy but always dear son may have a salutary sign of her maternal grief and a keener remembrance of the universal need of God’s mercy, in these cases she imposes some works of piety and reparation.
St Paul VI Sacerdotalis Caelibatus 88
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I was born in 1977. I used to date a girl (woman now) who was born in 1978 (or very late 1977)

Her dad was a former priest and her mom was a former nun. Not sure what year they both left their vocations, but I believe Vatican II played a role.
 
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Ah. I see, paragraph 88, under “Lamentable defections”?
But the paragraph talks about how the Holy See, together with the bishop or religious superior, MAY grant a dispensation. So it’s not some kind of blanket dispensation, the way the OP has explained it.
And it wasn’t because of the use of the vernacular in the liturgy, (as the OP said) it was because the priests couldn’t honor their vow of celibacy.
 
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But according to Pope Benedict XVI, the NO and the TM are one and the same rite but in different forms: ordinary and extraordinary.

Given that, perhaps other aspects of Vatican 2 were involved.
 
ralfyman said:
But according to Pope Benedict XVI, the NO and the TM are one and the same rite but in different forms: ordinary and extraordinary.
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Even if you agree with the Holy Father this does in no way imply that the Ordinary Form wasn’t a major change from how the Roman Rite had been celebrated up to this point.
 
The same refers to the TM itself. The Holy Father even adds that the NO stems from much of Church history, all the way to its earliest centuries. That is part of other points given and coming from his different works:

Pope Benedict XVI likes the Novus Ordo

It appears that what he does not like isn’t the form but the wrong ways in which the NO is celebrated.
 
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