Vatican Against Immigration. Entry Denied to Priests with Wives and Children

[Amadeus]

Any one cares to read the Vatican’s REAL position on immigration?

The Catholic Church has a full-fledge curial department for the pastoral care of migrants. It has an everyday duty to promote the welfare of displaced people.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/migrants/s_index_migrants/rc_pc_migrants_sectionmigrants.htm

Recently in the news:

Code: ZE05102503

Date: 2005-10-25

Migrations Seen as Opportunity for Evangelization

Joint Letter Issued by Vatican Agencies

VATICAN CITY, OCT. 25, 2005 (Zenit.org).- The Church must make of migrations a vehicle for dialogue and proclamation of the Christian message, say a pair of Vatican dicasteries.

The Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples and the Pontifical Council for Migrants and Travelers made that point in a joint letter dated Oct. 7.

The letter, addressed to those in charge in dioceses of the pastoral care of migrants, is signed by Cardinal Crescenzio Sepe, prefect of the congregation, and Cardinal Stephen Fumio Hamao, president of the pontifical council.

Both acknowledge that “the present migrations are the greatest human movement of all times.”

The letter seeks to promote application of the 2004 Vatican instruction “Erga Migrantes Caritas Christi” (The Love of Christ toward Migrants), written to respond “to the new spiritual and pastoral needs of migrants.”

The cardinals encourage readers to discover “in the new document pastoral and missionary suggestions and guidelines, fruit of the universal Church’s experience, in the service of people involved in this phenomenon.”

According to the document’s data, migrations affect at least 175 million men, women, children and elderly people, “who live outside their own country of origin as economic immigrants, refugees or asylum seekers, which is equivalent to 2.9% of the world’s population.”

Missionary dimension

This migration worries pastors, “even when it is voluntary, regular or legal, but even more so when the movements are irregular, often undertaken with the help of criminal organizations,” they say.

“In her universality, but also in her local reality, the Church is called therefore to scrutinize and interpret, in the light of the Gospel, this sign of our time,” they note.

This discernment, the prelates state, should inspire “dispositions and actions, programs and structures” in the local Churches that include “the missionary dimension, communion between the Churches of origin and those of arrival, and, in addition, the ecclesial task of protecting the human person as well as the family institution affected by migration.”

The cardinals emphasize four especially “relevant” aspects.

First, the migratory experience, “despite all its difficulties, is also an occasion of new evangelization and mission, … with room moreover for interreligious dialogue,” they note.

Second, “the pastoral care of migrants stems, according to the conciliar view, from an ecclesiology of communion, which is expressed, among other things, through the dialogue between Churches of departure and arrival.”

Regarding the human rights of migrants, the Church’s social doctrine and the instruction insist that “the human being can never be degraded to an instrument, work force, merchandise or any other factor of production.”

Therefore, it is necessary to defend the rights of migrants, paying much attention “to the causes of many injustices and differences that are at the origin of migrations and of coerced moves.”

Protagonists

The last element underlined is “the socio-charitable dimension of the apostolate in the area of human migration [which] needs to be completed with a properly ecclesial and missionary, ecumenical and interreligious dimension.”

In particular, the letter calls for ensuring that Catholic migrants become protagonists in the evangelizing action of the countries of destiny and that they are not just receivers.

In this way, the cardinals conclude, “the dramatic aspect of migration” can become a “proclamation of the paschal mystery by which death and resurrection tend to the ‘new creation,’ in which, beyond ethnic and cultural differences, unity in Christ matters.”

The “instruction” adverted to in the above article can be read at:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/migrants/documents/rc_pc_migrants_doc_20040514_erga-migrantes-caritas-christi_en.html

Meanwhile in the U.S., Catholic bishops are contributing their fair share to solve immigration problems:

ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=61604

The Orthodox? Nada!

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

Amadeus:

The Catholic Church has a full-fledge curial department for the pastoral care of migrants. It has an everyday duty to promote the welfare of displaced people.

The Orthodox? Nada!

Well, If a man is going to fib, it would be more convincing if he knew what he were talking about!

Since 1994, our parish has sponsored and resettled 297 immigrant families. Most have been Orthodox from the CIS, some have been Jews and some have been Copts and Ethiopians. As the head of the Immigration Committee, it has been my job to sign every Sponsorship Form for the NZ Immigration Service, spend well over $60,000 on telephone and fax, meet the people at the airport, find them accommodation, jobs, doctors, beds, schools for their children.

As well as these immigrant families, I have assisted 150 Russian sailors to “jump ship” and make refugee applications, find work, wives, etc., etc. Just about every one has spent the first two or three months living with me (they are usually penniless) while I sort out their papers for a Refugee Application.

All over the world, I know that Russian parishes are engaged in this same hands-on involvement with immigration. About 4,000,000 Russians have come to the West in the last 15 years. My own much loved bishop, while bishop of Manhattan, was invited to a Police interview to explain where he received the sums of money he had available to assist immigrants and refugees!!

The Orthodox? Nada! … You should check your facts before being judgemental. If there is any Nada! it is that we don’t set up cuial committees to issue theological statements about immigrants. We are too busy at the coalface doing the hard work!

 

[Amadeus]

The Catholic Church’s care for migrants and other displaced individuals is without regard to race, nationality, sex, or creed!

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

Amadeus:

The Catholic Church’s care for migrants and other displaced individuals is without regard to race, nationality, sex, or creed!

I am pleased to hear it but you are probably talking about statements on paper. I have been up to my neck in immigration work for the last 15 years in this country. The Catholics do assist migrants, and all credit to them, but not as much as we do. They just don’t have the manpower anyway to devote to such work. A great shortage of clergy, and nuns are becoming as scarce as hen’s teeth.

 

[Amadeus]

Without concrete figures, it is hard to assess the comparative work being done by the Catholic Church versus your Church in New Zealand in behalf of migrants and immigrants.

In other parts of the world, the Catholic Church is almost always “expected” to do the brunt of the work, either by the protagonists or by the United Nations.

Take the Sudan and, before, Biafra, the Congo, Angola, Rwanda, Nigeria, Uganda, etc., in Africa and in India, Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and in other Asian countries where there is/was conflict.

Amado

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

Amadeus:

Without concrete figures, it is hard to assess the comparative work being done by the Catholic Church versus your Church in New Zealand in behalf of migrants and immigrants.

In other parts of the world, the Catholic Church is almost always “expected” to do the brunt of the work, either by the protagonists or by the United Nations.

Take the Sudan and, before, Biafra, the Congo, Angola, Rwanda, Nigeria, Uganda, etc., in Africa and in India, Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and in other Asian countries where there is/was conflict.

Amado

I am not contesting the work done by Catholics. More honour to them for undertaking it.

I was replying to your offensive remark that the Orthodox do nothing. “The Orthodox? Nada!” Now that I have explained to you some of what happens with assistance to migrants in my own small parish, I was hoping that you would offer an apology for being a little rude about us?

 

[marlo]

This is simple,To preseve tradition… the church also needs to impose rules…

 

[marlo]

This samething also happens to Catholics in Russia… where Orthodox dont want catholics to build churches in there…

Now this post…firesback to Orthodox…

 

[Amadeus]

Posted by Fr. Ambrose:

**

The Catholics do assist migrants, and all credit to them, but not as much as we do. They just don’t have the manpower anyway to devote to such work. A great shortage of clergy, and nuns are becoming as scarce as hen’s teeth.

**

Let’s consider these 2004 Annuario Pontificio figures for the Catholic Church in New Zealand.

There were 988 nuns and female religious, 358 monks and male religious, 521 diocesan and religious priests serving about half a million Catholics (about 13% of New Zealand’s total population of 4 million) spread over 1 Archdiocese, 5 Dioceses, and 270 parishes.

Certainly, priests, nuns and the other religious are overworked serving the faithful because their number is increasing progressively but there should be enough spare who cater to the needs of migrants and other displaced persons.

Perhaps you do not see them because you don’t go around much or are simply “ignoring” their presence. (How many priests and religious does ROCOR/ROCA have in New Zealand? Dioceses/parishes? And how many faithful do you have?)

Say hi to your Catholic brothers and sisters more often!http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

[Amadeus]

Who IS being rude?

Read the title of your lead post, which is a classic Ambrosian misinformation.

And nada because we, the general public, don’t know until you started ticking off YOUR accomplishments in immigration of mostly Russians, which, I suspect, does not involve much about the really displaced persons!

 

[twiztedseraph]

[Unlike the Orthodox, we don’t have iconostasi so the Priest would be very visable during the service, where would we put his family and what part would they play in the liturgy? We have a new Parish secratary and she gave all the lector jobs to her teen children, while this may indeed be a sign of faith it doesn’t look good to have but one family running one mass…]

Would you please translate this for me? The priests wife and children have no other responsibilities than to attend church and practice their Orthodox Catholic faith like the rest of the congregation.

Our new priest is in his early thrities and comes from Kiev. In addition to a Masters of Divinity he also has a masters in computer technology & physics. He speaks excellent English. He gave up a very high paying secular job and accepted a 50% cut in pay to be a full time priest. Which is all he ever wished to be. And what a priest he is!!!

His Matushka (wife) and two little girls are part of the congregation at every service. That’s all that is required of them.

Orthodoc

Apologies if I was unclear bob, what I meant was, Catholicism is very unused to the thought of married Priests…During the Sunday mass it would be kinda weird having the head of the family up in the Sanctuary and the rest where? Front row? I dunno, just something we’ve never had.

 

[Hesychios]

twiztedseraph:

Apologies if I was unclear bob, what I meant was, Catholicism is very unused to the thought of married Priests…During the Sunday mass it would be kinda weird having the head of the family up in the Sanctuary and the rest where? Front row? I dunno, just something we’ve never had.

I have visited a healthy selection of Orthodox parishes over the last few years, and let me tell you it is not obvious at all who the priests family is. (Some priests are monks though, celibacy is alive and well in Orthodoxy!)

Most parishes have a social gathering after the liturgy with coffee, juices and some pastries or whatever and you get a chance to meet a few of the parishioners. Inevitably someone will introduce you to the Matuszka or point out one of father’s kids playing with the other’s, but otherwise you are quite unlikely to know whom they would be.

Being a priest’s wife is not without it’s social demands, but it is not a privilige that stands out (except for the fact that most Matuszkas will volunteer a lot). Imagine all of the married deacons in the Roman Catholic church, the average parishioner does not normally have a clue as to whom their families are and the visitor would never guess.

Another point should be touched upon: In Orthodoxy the tendency to ‘sit’ together in worship is not as strong. Many parishes do not have pews, the children often stand among friends and many adults have duties that require them to be elsewhere while some people will move about somewhat.

Having the family bunched together is a western, pew driven phenomenon. Mothers keep their smaller children in tow but later they are all up in front (a tradition of some parishes) or scattered about worshipping as individuals. Then there are those individuals who join the choir, usher, greet, cantor - read or tend the altar as acolytes, subdeacons etc. In the smaller parishes the level of involvement is very high percentage-wise.

 

[Amadeus]

Pope Benedict’s message for the 92nd “World Day of Migrants and Refugees” released:

ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=61904

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

Amadeus:

Pope Benedict’s message for the 92nd “World Day of Migrants and Refugees” released:

ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=61904

We pray that the Catholic countries, such as Italy, which have an appalling record of dealing with refugees will pay attention to the charitable words of their spiritual leaders.

 

[surgei]

The Catholic Church’s care for migrants and other displaced individuals is without regard to race, nationality, sex, or creed!

Wish this was tottally true.

 

[surgei]

I have visited a healthy selection of Orthodox parishes over the last few years, and let me tell you it is not obvious at all who the priests family is. (Some priests are monks though, celibacy is alive and well in Orthodoxy!)

Most parishes have a social gathering after the liturgy with coffee, juices and some pastries or whatever and you get a chance to meet a few of the parishioners. Inevitably someone will introduce you to the Matuszka or point out one of father’s kids playing with the other’s, but otherwise you are quite unlikely to know whom they would be.

Being a priest’s wife is not without it’s social demands, but it is not a privilige that stands out (except for the fact that most Matuszkas will volunteer a lot). Imagine all of the married deacons in the Roman Catholic church, the average parishioner does not normally have a clue as to whom their families are and the visitor would never guess.

Another point should be touched upon: In Orthodoxy the tendency to ‘sit’ together in worship is not as strong. Many parishes do not have pews, the children often stand among friends and many adults have duties that require them to be elsewhere while some people will move about somewhat.

Having the family bunched together is a western, pew driven phenomenon. Mothers keep their smaller children in tow but later they are all up in front (a tradition of some parishes) or scattered about worshipping as individuals. Then there are those individuals who join the choir, usher, greet, cantor - read or tend the altar as acolytes, subdeacons etc. In the smaller parishes the level of involvement is very high percentage-wise.

It is not uncommon for the children of a parish to be seen not as belonging to one family but to the whole church. I remember picking up a kid and thinking “whose kid is this, and why does he want me to pick him up?”
Putting kids up front just kind of happens. They can see better, and we can see them.
At the parish I was baptized in, the matushka was very active and vocal. Very much the glue that healld the community together through the health of her husband which is continueing to fail. The next parish had a priest who was a Navy Chaplain. His matushka was the same way, although that might have had alot more to do with being a navy wife.
I find it funny, having a baptist minister for my father, why this is such a big deal to Catholics. Yes, life is a little rougher on the kids, but not too harsh. I think the biggest thing is that the people don’t want to recognize the pastor as a human who needs time for himself. A priest with a family makes them not only think of it, but give it as well.