Vatican Cancels Another Medjugorie Event

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I don’t know why people fuel the fire so much. I really don’t have any opinion on Medjegorie. But if people believe it’s fake then I don’t know why those people keep talking about it, it’s kind of the brother that keeps poking you hoping for a reaction. People should just stop making a big fuss about it and if it’s fake it will die off IMHO.
 
Memaw said:
I have believed that for years already. I was advised by a VERY Holy Priest a long time ago that it would NEVER be approved. God Bless, Memaw
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I was told the same,Memaw. A number of priests in my city seem to support it and have even mentioned it in homilies. A few Discalced Carmelite frairs from a nearby monastery and Marian shrine have said they are certain it is false,One said that Mary would NEVER say anything against the Church or encourage discord.
 
ChurchSuffering said:
I don’t know why people fuel the fire so much. I really don’t have any opinion on Medjegorie. But if people believe it’s fake then I don’t know why those people keep talking about it, it’s kind of the brother that keeps poking you hoping for a reaction. People should just stop making a big fuss about it and if it’s fake it will die off IMHO.
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Honestly, (from a protestant viewpoint) it seems that it’s something that perhaps should have been dealt with earlier than now. From my perspective it’s something that has been allowed to grow over the years and, looking at the devotion on the faces of those who go there, so many people really believe that Mary is there. I know the Catholic church knows what it is doing and I believe they have been taking their time to study the phenomena and wanted to be sure that it is not really Mary.

How does the Church recognize if a “vision” is true or untrue? Is there a specific “checklist” that they use to confirm or reject something like happens at Medjegorie?

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut and putting up with my misunderstandings!

In Christ,

Rita
 
spedteacherita said:
Honestly, (from a protestant viewpoint) it seems that it’s something that perhaps should have been dealt with earlier than now. From my perspective it’s something that has been allowed to grow over the years and, looking at the devotion on the faces of those who go there, so many people really believe that Mary is there. I know the Catholic church knows what it is doing and I believe they have been taking their time to study the phenomena and wanted to be sure that it is not really Mary.

How does the Church recognize if a “vision” is true or untrue? Is there a specific “checklist” that they use to confirm or reject something like happens at Medjegorie?

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut and putting up with my misunderstandings!

In Christ,

Rita
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Not a checklist, per se, but there is a procedure.

Normally, investigations into putative apparitions are begun by local diocesan authority, and not before the apparition has ended. At Medjugorje, this was difficult because of the long duration of the phenomenon (1981-now, believed still going on) and the following gained by it almost at once.

BTW, Medjugorje is not unique in its long duration. There has reportedly been an apparition in France that ran for 51 years, in the 1600s, and was not approved until 2008.

ICXC NIKA.
 
GEddie said:
Not a checklist, per se, but there is a procedure.

Normally, investigations into putative apparitions are begun by local diocesan authority, and not before the apparition has ended. At Medjugorje, this was difficult because of the long duration of the phenomenon (1981-now, believed still going on) and the following gained by it almost at once.

BTW, Medjugorje is not unique in its long duration. There has reportedly been an apparition in France that ran for 51 years, in the 1600s, and was not approved until 2008.

ICXC NIKA.
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I believe there was a commission that studied it early on and released its findings in 1991. It was pretty much agreed that the alleged apparition could not be said to be supernatural and I believe the local bishop,the one with authority,said it was proven to be not supernatural.

However anyone who has studied it and what some of the messages are could be very concerned if these prophesied events unfold(and I believe some of them will).If the Church disapproves of the alleged apparition and these things occur I believe MANY will abandon the faith in favor of the apparition.
 
I’ve always thought it inappropriate for clergy not involved in the investigation or decision making process, and the laity to refrain from speculation or opinion as proponents or opponents of these things…instead, we should patiently await the Church to decide, and accept the leadership’s findings without question.

The danger is if we take the wrong side we have put ourselves at odds with the Church, and even if we take the right side, we feel we are as knowledgeable as the Church leadership.

Sometimes unity is best served by waiting…
But, it’s the curse of the age of the Internet, I suppose.
 
GEddie said:
Not a checklist, per se, but there is a procedure.

Normally, investigations into putative apparitions are begun by local diocesan authority, and not before the apparition has ended. At Medjugorje, this was difficult because of the long duration of the phenomenon (1981-now, believed still going on) and the following gained by it almost at once.

BTW, Medjugorje is not unique in its long duration. There has reportedly been an apparition in France that ran for 51 years, in the 1600s, and was not approved until 2008.

ICXC NIKA.
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The only approved Marian apparition site in the USA was approved in 2010.It is Our Lady of Good Help in Champion Wisconsin. The apparitions occurred in 1859 though.

I have been to the Shrine and it is without a doubt one of the most peaceful places I have ever been…
 
Neofight said:
I’ve always thought it inappropriate for clergy not involved in the investigation or decision making process, and the laity to refrain from speculation or opinion as proponents or opponents of these things…instead, we should patiently await the Church to decide, and accept the leadership’s findings without question.

The danger is if we take the wrong side we have put ourselves at odds with the Church, and even if we take the right side, we feel we are as knowledgeable as the Church leadership.

Sometimes unity is best served by waiting…
But, it’s the curse of the age of the Internet, I suppose.
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Neofight,it is not about taking the wrong or right side. My concern is if these prophecies DO come to pass(and I believe some will) then if the Church condemns them many of the faithful will fall away.

The Church did study the apparition in 1991 and on the Mostar diocese website there is a detailed commentary as to why the commission rejected it as not not being proven to be supernatural
 
cjforJesus said:
Neofight,it is not about taking the wrong or right side. My concern is if these prophecies DO come to pass(and I believe some will) then if the Church condemns them many of the faithful will fall away.

The Church did study the apparition in 1991 and on the Mostar diocese website there is a detailed commentary as to why the commission rejected it as not not being proven to be supernatural
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LOL,sorry for the double negative! I meant it rejected it as not being proven to be supernatural
 
spedteacherita said:
How does the Church recognize if a “vision” is true or untrue? Is there a specific “checklist” that they use to confirm or reject something like happens at Medjegorie?
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There are three possible outcomes when it comes to any private revelation: constat de supernaturalitate (“It is confirmed to be of supernatural origin”); constat de non supernaturalitate (“It is confirmed to not be of supernatural origin”); and non constat de supernaturalitate (“It is not confirmed to be of supernatural origin”).

For most part, 99.9% of private revelation generally stays private and personal. Usually it’s something that people keep to themselves when it happens.

When something goes public, it gets judged. Things that you look at: (1) Determining whether something miraculous really happened; (2) Looking at the qualities of the people who are directly involved [honesty, obedience, upright character, mentally sound, sincere, etc]; (3) Content [is the message theologically sound? is it free from error?]; (4) Are there positive spiritual fruits that come from this [conversions, increase in prayer and charity, etc]?

In modern times (post-Council of Trent in the early 16th c.), the local bishop is the one who makes the determination as to whether something is permitted to be propagated and encouraged. Afterwards, the Vatican has the option of either formally approving of his approval, or just leaving it alone. If the bishop rules negatively, it’s on the people to be obedient… God finds a way to make his business known if it’s for real, but obedience is always key in the meantime. If something is approved, it’s rather like sacramentals-- one person can find a lot of profit in X, but it might not resonate with another person, so you look for the profit you can find in it, and carry it with you, but it’s not mandatory.
 
spedteacherita said:
Honestly, (from a protestant viewpoint) it seems that it’s something that perhaps should have been dealt with earlier than now. From my perspective it’s something that has been allowed to grow over the years and, looking at the devotion on the faces of those who go there, so many people really believe that Mary is there. I know the Catholic church knows what it is doing and I believe they have been taking their time to study the phenomena and wanted to be sure that it is not really Mary.

How does the Church recognize if a “vision” is true or untrue? Is there a specific “checklist” that they use to confirm or reject something like happens at Medjegorie?

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut and putting up with my misunderstandings!

In Christ,

Rita
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Thank you for your questions.

For those who like to read there is a book by Father Benedict Groeschel called “A Still Small Voice” which explains much about private revelation, and how the Church deals with it.

It does take a long time before the Church says that it is “okay to believe”. And, even when the Church says that it is “okay to believe”, no Catholic is mandated to believe it.
 
cjforJesus said:
Neofight,it is not about taking the wrong or right side. My concern is if these prophecies DO come to pass(and I believe some will) then if the Church condemns them many of the faithful will fall away.

The Church did study the apparition in 1991 and on the Mostar diocese website there is a detailed commentary as to why the commission rejected it as not not being proven to be supernatural
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I think some Bishops & priests need to educate the laity (and some of the Clergy) what “supernatural” means to the Church.

To the Church, things that can Angelic are NOT considered “supernatural.” Medjugorie MIGHT be true in that the seers are receiving visions, but they might be coming from Angels or demons.

Angelic actions performed by Angels, or even demons, are NOT considered “supernatural” by the Church. For example: if you see someone or something levitating, the Church does NOT consider that supernatural because an angel or demon maybe picking the object or person up. Angels and demons may even be able to “tell the future” if the exist outside of time like God does (or at least if they can time travel or experience time way differently than us).

It’s only considered supernatural by the Church if a miracle is deemed to be something that only God can do or make happen. Mary is human, so it takes an act of God for her to appear. But a angel or demon can cause visions without God’s intervention. In these instances, even if done by St Michael the Archangel, it would not be considered supernatural by the Church.

ewtn.com/expert/answers/medjugorje.htm
ewtn.com/expert/answers/apparitions.htm
 
GEddie said:
Not a checklist, per se, but there is a procedure.

Normally, investigations into putative apparitions are begun by local diocesan authority, and not before the apparition has ended. At Medjugorje, this was difficult because of the long duration of the phenomenon (1981-now, believed still going on) and the following gained by it almost at once.

BTW, Medjugorje is not unique in its long duration. There has reportedly been an apparition in France that ran for 51 years, in the 1600s, and was not approved until 2008.

ICXC NIKA.
Click to expand...
What is the one in France?? I never heard of it. God Bless, Memaw
 
phil19034 said:
I think some Bishops & priests need to educate the laity (and some of the Clergy) what “supernatural” means to the Church.

To the Church, things that can Angelic are NOT considered “supernatural.” Medjugorie MIGHT be true in that the seers are receiving visions, but they might be coming from Angels or demons.

Angelic actions performed by Angels, or even demons, are NOT considered “supernatural” by the Church. For example: if you see someone or something levitating, the Church does NOT consider that supernatural because an angel or demon maybe picking the object or person up. Angels and demons may even be able to “tell the future” if the exist outside of time like God does (or at least if they can time travel or experience time way differently than us).

It’s only considered supernatural by the Church if a miracle is deemed to be something that only God can do or make happen. Mary is human, so it takes an act of God for her to appear. But a angel or demon can cause visions without God’s intervention. In these instances, even if done by St Michael the Archangel, it would not be considered supernatural by the Church.

ewtn.com/expert/answers/medjugorje.htm
ewtn.com/expert/answers/apparitions.htm
Click to expand...
On the Mostar diocese website there is a detailed explanation of why the commission ruled as it did in 1991.

One of the key characteristics of true visionaries is their obedience to their superiors and to the Church.

Adele Brise was the visionary of Our Lady of Good Help, and even though she was rejected at first she always remained obedient to the Church. She was urged by Mary to build a school and educate the poor children in the area and teach them their catechism.
 
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