Vatican creche to place Holy Family in Joseph's carpentry workshop

[KathleenElsie]

I wish I could remember where I read this, but I believe it has something to do with the dream of St. Joseph. It had to do with a more overarching view of Christ’s infancy rather than just the first few days of his life.

Also had something to do with recent additude that relegates St. Joseph to a minor supporting role rather than the credit he is do as Jesus’ earthly father.

EDIT:

Found the Link
zenit.org/article-21335?l=english

For adults this is a good article. Now I just need to find one for the under 10 crowd.

 

[rlg94086]

The only thing that bothers me is why is the change now? Things can be so confusing to our young children this time of year. With all the commercialism and denial of Christ in public this just makes it even harder to keep tradition strong for our young ones. The long time period that this takes place in is not something that most of our children or even adults for that matter have ever had explained to them. So then how do we do this one week prior to Christmas Day?

This is exactly why I am not in favor of the decision. It isn’t a “right or wrong” thing, but rather a “why confuse people who are already lapsed?”

 

[Magicsilence]

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0707162.htm

“When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took his wife into his home. He had no relations with her until she bore a son and he named him Jesus.”

I’m not sure I am “excited” about the new creche idea…

whaaaat?, why are things like these even written?

Qualifying bible verses is hard enough, why do they have to continue this ‘tradition’ when discussing the history of the Holy Family?

 

[Wolseley]

I heard that there is a church built over the cave that is believed to be the birthplace of Jesus.

There is. It’s called the Church of the Nativity. There’s another one built over the place He was crucified; another one built on top of the mountain where He was Transfigured; yet another built over the place where He Ascended into heaven; and more, and more.

The whole of Israel is covered with Christian churches that commemorate the life of Our Savior.

 

[rlg94086]

whaaaat?, why are things like these even written?

Qualifying bible verses is hard enough, why do they have to continue this ‘tradition’ when discussing the history of the Holy Family?

What are you objecting to exactly? The quoted passage you bolded and underlined is from Matthew 1:24-25. Are you objecting to the writing of the Gospel According to Matthew?

 

[Leopard]

Thanks for the off-handed correction…

Off handed?

 

[rlg94086]

Off handed?

Yes. Off handed.

 

[Leopard]

Yes. Off handed.

I’m still trying to figure out why you took that as a correction, let alone an off handed one. I was posting my own thoughts on the many, various Nativity scenes I have seen in my life. My point was not that the scenes did not show Mary in stage 2 labor (which in my opinion would be a tasteless Nativity scene, highly disrespectful to the Mother of God), but that practically all the crèches showed together in one diorama disparate elements representing events that may have taken place anytime from hours (shepherds and angels) to years (magi and Herod’s soldiers) after Christ’s birth. There was no implication that anyone whose experiences with Nativity scenes or whose thoughts relating thereto if different from mine were incorrect or in need of correction.

Now this post is intended to be a correction, but I can’t say whether or not it may be off handed because I use both hands to type.

 

[Leopard]

rlg94086:

…"When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took his wife into his home. He had no relations with her until she bore a son

and he named him Jesus."

whaaaat?, why are things like these even written? …

Qualifying bible verses is hard enough, why do they have to continue this ‘tradition’ when discussing the history of the Holy Family?

It was written because it was true. St. Matthew was emphasizing the fact that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born. No inferences should be drawn from this statement about events afterward, as Matthew’s Gospel does not address this.

 

[Quebec2005]

What is pretty clear is that the manger Jesus was laid in was not located in a central European middle ages style stable traditionally used in such scenes. Also clear, is that Jesus and the Holy Family stayed in Bethlehem for quite some time after his birth - as is noted above. The Magi certainly did not arrive 12 days after His birth either.

Since the Holy Family stayed for some time in Bethlehem, it certainly seems reasonable to assume Joseph worked and that they had some sort of house or shelter other than a stable during all that time. Whatever is in Rome is, no doubt, erected with a certain amount of artistic license - just as the traditional creches are styled with considerable artistic license, and NOT historical or Biblical accuracy.

In short - take a valium folks.

I agree with that. After all, according to Matthew, Herod sent his soldiers to kill all the children of 2 years old or less living in Bethlehem and the surrounding area. That means that the Holy Family have lived in Bethlehem for more or less two years. During this time, Joseph had to make a living, so he certainly opened a workshop during his stay there. Herod certainly did not take two years to finally realise that the Magi had tricked him and to send his soldiers to kill Jesus. So the Magi probably arrived in Bethlehem shortly before the Holy Family’s flight to Egypt.

 

[rlg94086]

I’m still trying to figure out why you took that as a correction, let alone an off handed one. I was posting my own thoughts on the many, various Nativity scenes I have seen in my life. My point was not that the scenes did not show Mary in stage 2 labor (which in my opinion would be a tasteless Nativity scene, highly disrespectful to the Mother of God), but that practically all the crèches showed together in one diorama disparate elements representing events that may have taken place anytime from hours (shepherds and angels) to years (magi and Herod’s soldiers) after Christ’s birth. There was no implication that anyone whose experiences with Nativity scenes or whose thoughts relating thereto if different from mine were incorrect or in need of correction.

Now this post is intended to be a correction, but I can’t say whether or not it may be off handed because I use both hands to type.

Fair enough.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

It appears that the Holy Family remained in Bethlehem for a year or two after Jesus birth. One wonders why. Why did they give up the home in Nazareth and settle in Bethlehem? I have never seen any comment on that.

 

[Quebec2005]

It appears that the Holy Family remained in Bethlehem for a year or two after Jesus birth. One wonders why. Why did they give up the home in Nazareth and settle in Bethlehem? I have never seen any comment on that.

I don’t know but my take is that Joseph and Mary wanted to give some time to Jesus to grow up and be strong enough to be able to undertake the trip back home, which finally turned out to be a trip to Egypt. Child mortality was high in those times.

 

[JMMK]

From reading the article on Zenit, it seems that it is to show the dream of Joseph where the angel told him to take Mary into his home and she will bear a son. Since he probably didn’t know that he had to go to Bethlehem at that point, it makes sense that he was imagine it in his home in Nazareth.

As another point, it is my understanding that there are 14 total nativity scenes in the Vatican City, the other 13 have not raised any question so I will assume that they are shown in Bethlehem.