Vatican forces bishop to provide Latin Mass; overturns restrictions

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There are a few diocese (including mine) in the US that need to get a letter like this too. 😦
 
Corki said:
There are a few diocese (including mine) in the US that need to get a letter like this too. 😦
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This would seem to set precedence. Clearly anyone (priest or layman) who appeals to Ecclesia Dei against their bishop can get action taken. All the bishops’ ‘interpretations’ (read: restrictions) of the motu proprio are invalid, and priests are perfectly at liberty to say the Old Mass regardless of whether the bishop permits it or not.
 
larousser said:
This would seem to set precedent. Clearly anyone (priest or layman) who appeals to Ecclesia Dei against their bishop can get action taken. All the bishops’ ‘interpretations’ (read: restrictions) of the motu proprio are invalid, and priests are perfectly at liberty to say the Old Mass regardless of whether the bishop permits it or not.
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Yes, that would seem to be true. Great comeuppance to the obstructionist bishops who give lip service to Summorum Pontificum and then do whatever is in their power (or what they think is in their power, based on the days of that silly “indult”) to thwart it. To be a bit other-side-of-the-pond about it, I’ll say “Good Show!” 👍
 
Scary.

We need to know more details.

My understanding of SP was that while it eased some restrictions on those who want to celebrate Eucharist according to the 1962 Missal, it was not intended to create new communities that celebrated that way.

From the articles I read, this seems to be a case of people who had not previously celebrated the 1962 Missal Rite now demanding the right to do so, which I don’t think SP allowed.

Scary.

Cheers
 
diggerdomer said:
My understanding of SP was that while it eased some restrictions on those who want to celebrate Eucharist according to the 1962 Missal, it was not intended to create new communities that celebrated that way.
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On what basis do you ground this understanding?
diggerdomer said:
From the articles I read, this seems to be a case of people who had not previously celebrated the 1962 Missal Rite now demanding the right to do so, which I don’t think SP allowed.
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The motu proprio imposed no such restrictions.
 
diggerdomer said:
I base my understanding on reading the Motu Proprio “Summorum Pontificum.”
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In a word, you understanding is wrong. What you are saying is a repeat of the silly “indult” of 1988: it allowed the EF, but under such absurd conditions as to make it available only in and for selected communities. Summorum Pontificum lifted those inane restrictions.
 
diggerdomer said:
Scary.

We need to know more details.

My understanding of SP was that while it eased some restrictions on those who want to celebrate Eucharist according to the 1962 Missal, it was not intended to create new communities that celebrated that way.

From the articles I read, this seems to be a case of people who had not previously celebrated the 1962 Missal Rite now demanding the right to do so, which I don’t think SP allowed.

Scary.

Cheers
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Art. 5. § 1 In parishes, where there is a stable group of faithful who adhere to the earlier liturgical tradition, the pastor should willingly accept their requests to celebrate the Mass according to the rite of the Roman Missal published in 1962, and ensure that the welfare of these faithful harmonises with the ordinary pastoral care of the parish, under the guidance of the bishop in accordance with canon 392, avoiding discord and favouring the unity of the whole Church.
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This doesn’t say anything about the group having previously celebrated the Missal of 1962.
Art. 7. If a group of lay faithful, as mentioned in art. 5 õ 1, has not obtained satisfaction to their requests from the pastor, they should inform the diocesan bishop. The bishop is strongly requested to satisfy their wishes. If he cannot arrange for such celebration to take place, the matter should be referred to the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei”.
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And if the priest cannot/will not satisfy the request, the Bishop is supposed to do whatever he can to make it happen.
Art. 10. The ordinary of a particular place, if he feels it appropriate, may erect a personal parish in accordance with can. 518 for celebrations following the ancient form of the Roman rite, or appoint a chaplain, while observing all the norms of law.
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And one of the ways the Bishop can do this is to set up a personal parish to use the older Missal. This seems to be what is being done according to the OP.
 
malphono said:
In a word, you understanding is wrong. What you are saying is a repeat of the silly “indult” of 1988: it allowed the EF, but under such absurd conditions as to make it available only in and for selected communities. Summorum Pontificum lifted those inane restrictions.
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Thanks for letting us know that the indult of 1988 was silly. I wouldn’t have considered something coming from the Pope/Vatican silly before reading your message.

Actually, to be honest, I still don’t think it was silly, because it came from the Magisterium.

Cheers
 
"Art. 7. If a group of lay faithful, as mentioned in art. 5 õ 1, has not obtained satisfaction to their requests from the pastor, they should inform the diocesan bishop. The bishop is strongly requested to satisfy their wishes. If he cannot arrange for such celebration to take place, the matter should be referred to the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei”. "

This isn’t even necessary if you have priests willing to say the EF.
 
I hope more bishops obey the Pope; let us pray for all the shephards of Christ’s flock. 🙂
 
Eucharisted said:
I hope more bishops obey the Pope; let us pray for all the shephards of Christ’s flock. 🙂
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I’m going to pray for their flock first. The Bishops have no right to deny the TLM. Thank God I’ve got a Bishop who promotes it.
 
Corki said:
This doesn’t say anything about the group having previously celebrated the Missal of 1962…
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Yes it does.

Art. 5: “In parishes, where there is a stable group of faithful who adhere to the earlier liturgical tradition, the pastor should willingly accept their requests to celebrate the Mass according to the rite of the Roman Missal published in 1962, and ensure that the welfare of these faithful harmonises with the ordinary pastoral care of the parish, under the guidance of the bishop in accordance with canon 392, avoiding discord and favouring the unity of the whole Church.”

The key phrase is “where there is a stable group …who adhere to the earlier liturgical tradition…”

Not some group that now wants to celebrate according to the old tradition, but an EXISTING group.
Corki said:
And if the priest cannot/will not satisfy the request, the Bishop is supposed to do whatever he can to make it happen.
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Yes…but, again, only for a stable (i.e. pre-existing) group. Not for some who newly come forward saying hey they’d like to check this thing out.
Corki said:
And one of the ways the Bishop can do this is to set up a personal parish to use the older Missal. This seems to be what is being done according to the OP.
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Yes this is an option. But let’s be realistic. Given all the parish closings and mergers going on, do we really think a Bishop would establish a new parish for the sole purpose of those who had been worshipping according to the previous Rite?

Just my personal opinion, I doubt it. By the way, the parish I go to also hosts a community that worships according to the 1962 Missal. There has been no clamor for erecting a parish for them, things are working fine without that.

Cheers.
 
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