Vatican I Denies Evolution?

[reggieM]

After all, why would God give us a brain but not want us to use it?

God gave us free will, right? We therefore have the freedom to choose from any possible action. Why would God give us freedom to choose sin but not want us to choose it?

 

[Sinner1]

God gave us free will, right? We therefore have the freedom to choose from any possible action. Why would God give us freedom to choose sin but not want us to choose it?

Finding out how something works isn’t sinful.

 

[grannymh]

God gave us free will, right? We therefore have the freedom to choose from any possible action. Why would God give us freedom to choose sin but not want us to choose it?

For the same reason that we are given the freedom to choose God.

 

[reggieM]

For the same reason that we are given the freedom to choose God.

Why is that different than why we are given a brain which can be used in either good or sinful ways?

 

[reggieM]

Finding out how something works isn’t sinful.

Not true. Finding out how torture works is, indeed, sinful. (As are many other uses of the brain).

So, the brain can be used for good or evil.

Just because God gave us a brain does not mean that we have the right to use in any possible way.

 

[The_Barbarian]

Not true. Finding out how torture works is, indeed, sinful.

Bad example, that. We have, for example, learned from histories of torture, how “normal” people can be seduced into taking part in torture. That is a valuable lesson that can be applied to making it less likely to happen.

 

[grannymh]

Why is that different than why we are given a brain which can be used in either good or sinful ways?

Dear reggieM,

Re: posts 60, 62, 63

Let’s see if I have all the options for action.

We are given the freedom to choose sin.
We are given the freedom to choose God.
We are given a brain which can determine if a particular action is a good one.
We are given a brain which can determine if a particular action is sinful.

The common denominator is freedom to choose one action over another or choosing to act rather than not to act. In order to choose, to exercise free will, at least two options are necessary. Do the options have to be the good/bad kind? No. One is free to choose vanilla ice cream instead of chocolate or strawberry ice cream or not to choose any ice cream. If it were me, I would choose to eat all three flavors of ice cream.

Here comes the tricky part. The first two “we are” statements are a natural pair. In general, when we choose God we avoid sin as best we can. When we sin, we demote God to second place or out of the picture completely. In real life, it is not that simple…

The last two “we are” statements stand alone as individual options. They identify the agent which is determining the value of a particular action. Our brain is saying that an action is good and our choice is to act or not act. Or separately, our brain is figuring out if an action is bad and our choice is to act or not act.

With this point of view, all the above “we are” statements are similar. There is no real difference between them based on the common denominator of freedom to choose. In real life, choices are often broken down into small segments. Some choices are made out of habit. Others can be life changing. Choices concerning religion and evolution are daunting.

The good thing about the Catholic faith is that Jesus did not leave us orphans to fend for ourselves when a choice needs to be made. Jesus is with us continually in the Holy Eucharist. Furthermore, the seven sacraments help us to choose wisely and then to act courageously.

Perhaps the most amazing thing of all is that because of His unconditional love for us, God respects our free will, our right to choose.

Blessings,
grannymh

 

[reggieM]

We are given the freedom to choose sin.
We are given the freedom to choose God.
We are given a brain which can determine if a particular action is a good one.
We are given a brain which can determine if a particular action is sinful.

No, I’m sorry that this parallel is not correct.
We can use our brain in the sinful act itself.

The common denominator is freedom to choose one action over another or choosing to act rather than not to act.

No, the common denominator are the gifts that God has given us – either the gift of choice (will) or the gift of brain (thought).

The last two “we are” statements stand alone as individual options. They identify the agent which is determining the value of a particular action. Our brain is saying that an action is good and our choice is to act or not act. Or separately, our brain is figuring out if an action is bad and our choice is to act or not act.

Again, you’re misconstruing the point. You asked why God gave us a brain if not to use it. But we know that God gave us freedoms which cannot be used. So, your question is answered quite easily. God gives us powers and potentiality that He does not want us to use. This is fundamental to God’s teaching – and for this reason, your question was irrelevant (and quite easily answered).

You were thinking that since we have a brain, we can use it in any way we want – but this is not true.

Choices concerning religion and evolution are daunting.

Some can be good, others can be sinful. I would say “daunting” because some are “damning”.

The good thing about the Catholic faith is that Jesus did not leave us orphans to fend for ourselves when a choice needs to be made. Jesus is with us continually in the Holy Eucharist. Furthermore, the seven sacraments help us to choose wisely and then to act courageously. Perhaps the most amazing thing of all is that God respects our free will, our right to choose.

All of that is very good and quite true. It provides a lifetime of rich material to think about and marvel at, indeed.

But I’m afraid that you shortchanged yourself with your initial question, wondering why God gave us a brain. I believe you know much better than to ask such a question.

 

[grannymh]

No, I’m sorry that this parallel is not correct.
We can use our brain in the sinful act itself.

No, the common denominator are the gifts that God has given us – either the gift of choice (will) or the gift of brain (thought).

Again, you’re misconstruing the point. You asked why God gave us a brain if not to use it. But we know that God gave us freedoms which cannot be used. So, your question is answered quite easily. God gives us powers and potentiality that He does not want us to use. This is fundamental to God’s teaching – and for this reason, your question was irrelevant (and quite easily answered).

You were thinking that since we have a brain, we can use it in any way we want – but this is not true.
Some can be good, others can be sinful. I would say “daunting” because some are “damning”.

All of that is very good and quite true. It provides a lifetime of rich material to think about and marvel at, indeed.

But I’m afraid that you shortchanged yourself with your initial question, wondering why God gave us a brain. I believe you know much better than to ask such a question.

Dear reggieM,

A very needed clarification.

It was Sinner1 in post 53 that asked the original question about why would God give us a brain… And it was you in post 60 who commented on Sinner1 point and then asked a question in post 63. I included all the options regarding freedom of choice in my reply since the options are similar. My reply was directed to freedom of choice options only.

I never asked nor addressed the “why” God gave us a brain. I only referred to the brain as an agent or help in determining if an action was good, etc. Because most of the time, though not always, thought comes before action.

Your comments are appreciated since clarification is very useful.

Blessings,
grannymh

 

[edwest2]

Bad example, that. We have, for example, learned from histories of torture, how “normal” people can be seduced into taking part in torture. That is a valuable lesson that can be applied to making it less likely to happen.

I am very skeptical since once a way is discovered, it is simply kept.

Peace,
Ed

 

[reggieM]

A very needed clarification.

It was Sinner1 in post 53 that asked the original question about why would God give us a brain… And it was you in post 60 who commented on Sinner1 point and then asked a question in post 63. I included all the options regarding freedom of choice in my reply since the options are similar. My reply was directed to freedom of choice options only.

I never asked nor addressed the “why” God gave us a brain. I only referred to the brain as an agent or help in determining if an action was good, etc. Because most of the time, though not always, thought comes before action.

Your comments are appreciated since clarification is very useful.

Thank you, grannymh - and I appreciate your comments also.