Vatican II and its changes

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The SSPX is not in Schism, if you are attracted to them, by all means, go.
 
  1. The SSPX is not in full communion with the Church and is invited by the Church to rediscover this path.
  2. The SSPX has no canonical status in the Church and its ministers cannot legitimately exercise any ministry.
 
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There’s no problem with going to an SSPX Chapel, matter of fact you should speak to the Priest there about your concerns. He should be able to help you, since many of us, including myself, are struggling with this issue.
 
At this time the Pius X is still in schism. So please do not go there. There is such thing as a proper, reverently done Novus Ordo, albeit they are hard to find. I do have 3 in my diocese, but since they are so far away I have opted to go to a Tridentine. Granted it took a little getting used to. Quite frankly I love the Novus Ordo. And I have heard some very hard-hitting no holds barred sermons at a Novus Ordo. I have gone to confession to some wonderful NO priests. But it is rare I have found those that are mindful of Sacrosanctum Concilium.
 
Miguel25 said:
Im honest bro i dont have a lot of knwoledge… thats all but scares me the liberalism that im seeing…
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Know all the facts before jumping ship. They are a breakaway traditionalist Society …and as LordParrott said in a schism
 
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Vernacular Mass
No longer sinful to enter non-Catholic houses of worship
Contemporary Jews no longer blamed for death of Jesus
Lifting excommunication decree on Orthodox Church
More cooperation with Protestants
Other acts of penance acceptable in place of abstaining from meat on non-Lenten Fridays (though avoiding meat on Fridays is still OK)
Pope often travels abroad
Eastern Catholics encouraged to resume Eastern Christian traditions, devotions, etc. instead of adopting Western Christian traditions, devotions, etc.
Women religious expected to return to the source of their community – this could entail wearing street clothes instead of a habit, since habits were often originally a prior century’s street clothes
Wider variety of Scripture readings at Mass
General opening up of the Church to the outside world
Additional saints canonized
Divine Mercy Sunday instituted
Some holy days of obligation (e.g., Epiphany, Ascension) often transferred to the nearest Sunday
Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary approved
Divine Office/Liturgy of the Hours/Breviary available in vernacular languages
Laypeople encouraged to pray Divine Office/Liturgy of the Hours/Breviary
“Diamantina said:
Vernacular Mass
No longer sinful to enter non-Catholic houses of worship
Contemporary Jews no longer blamed for death of Jesus
Lifting excommunication decree on Orthodox Church
More cooperation with Protestants
Other acts of penance acceptable in place of abstaining from meat on non-Lenten Fridays (though avoiding meat on Fridays is still OK)
Pope often travels abroad
Eastern Catholics encouraged to resume Eastern Christian traditions, devotions, etc. instead of adopting Western Christian traditions, devotions, etc.
Women religious expected to return to the source of their community – this could entail wearing street clothes instead of a habit, since habits were often originally a prior century’s street clothes
Wider variety of Scripture readings at Mass
General opening up of the Church to the outside world
Additional saints canonized
Divine Mercy Sunday instituted
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Re: #3, Contemporary Jews in, say, the 1950s were not blamed for crucifixion. For one thing, Hitler had made extreme anti-semitism look awful bad.
re: # 4, the Catholic Church never excommunicated the Orthodox Church, only the Primate.
re: #5, debatable (there was lots more cooperation in general promotion of morality before)
re: 9, debatable. Many religious orders abandoned habits that were always distinctive religious garb. Note the great variety of habits coming from countries that would likely have had similar street garb.
re: 13, Divine Mercy was big in Poland and nearby Eastern European countries before Vatican II. I would bet the Divine Mercy Sunday was recognized at least locally, though not by Vatican.
 
TheCatholicKnight said:
There’s no problem with going to an SSPX Chapel, matter of fact you should speak to the Priest there about your concerns. He should be able to help you, since many of us, including myself, are struggling with this issue.
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The great majority of SSPX priests now have never worked in the Catholic Church itself, or as part of any diocese, or in relation to any bishop ordinary. Nowadays almost all have been educated and trained only in SSPX, with very few professors or supervisors who ministered or trained themselves anywhere outside the SSPX.

They likely have served as priests only in SSPX. They likely have not been parish pastors anywhere, have probably not had the range of Catholic Church experiences priests in the Catholic Church itself have had. I am just pointing out that in 2017 the SSPX is far more inbred, far less broadly experienced than the SSPX would have been in, say, 1980.
 
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Diamantina said:
I help to lead a prayer and discussion group at a convalescent home. One of the patients asked me how has the Catholic Church changed since Vatican II. Here is my list, which is necessarily incomplete:
  1. Vernacular Mass
Anybody have any other suggestions?
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Correction
  1. Vernacular Mass without special directive
Actually, it’s mistaken to say that it was Vatican II that allowed Venacular Mass. The earliest that I can track the special use of the vernacular was for 1500’s missions to Asia. It was again allowed in missions to early Americas in the 1600’s.
 
Wow! You made a post I can finally get behind!😉 I’m even gonna give a like for that one!
 
pianistclare said:
The SSPX has no canonical status in the Church and its ministers cannot legitimately exercise any ministry.
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Pope Francis granted the SSPX faculties to hear confessions and officiate at marriages. Therefore, it is no longer accurate to state that they don’t exercise legitimate ministry.
 
Saxum said:
Pope Francis granted the SSPX faculties to hear confessions and officiate at marriages. Therefore, it is no longer accurate to state that they don’t exercise legitimate ministry.
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Legitimate ministry is exercised in communion with a local bishop-ordinary, and/or a religious superior who is in full communion and obedience with the Catholic Church, at the diocesan level and with the Vatican. It is exercised in unity with the college of clergy under that ordinary, and the college of bishops in union with Peter.
The SSPX does not offer that.
 
pianistclare said:
For the duration of the year of Mercy ONLY
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I suggest you do your homework. The Pope extended the faculties BEYOND the year of of Mercy. Do a google search to check the facts before you spread confusion and misinformation.
 
commenter said:
Legitimate ministry is exercised in communion with a local bishop-ordinary, and/or a religious superior who is in full communion and obedience with the Catholic Church, at the diocesan level and with the Vatican. It is exercised in unity with the college of clergy under that ordinary, and the college of bishops in union with Peter.

The SSPX does not offer that.
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I guess you know more than Pope Francis. The Pope himself declared that the SSPX has:
  1. Faculties to absolve sins beyond the year of Mercy
  2. The ability to officiate weddings with the help of a diocesan priest
  3. The permission to ordain
All of these are recent developments. Before anybody contradicts what is written above with lies and misinformation, please check your facts. Anybody else reading this post can check it out for themselves with a simple google search.

The lies and falsehoods spread about the SSPX stuns me.
 
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Diamantina said:
I help to lead a prayer and discussion group at a convalescent home. One of the patients asked me how has the Catholic Church changed since Vatican II. Here is my list, which is necessarily incomplete:
  1. Vernacular Mass
  2. No longer sinful to enter non-Catholic houses of worship
  3. Contemporary Jews no longer blamed for death of Jesus
  4. Lifting excommunication decree on Orthodox Church
  5. More cooperation with Protestants
  6. Other acts of penance acceptable in place of abstaining from meat on non-Lenten Fridays (though avoiding meat on Fridays is still OK)
  7. Pope often travels abroad
  8. Eastern Catholics encouraged to resume Eastern Christian traditions, devotions, etc. instead of adopting Western Christian traditions, devotions, etc.
  9. Women religious expected to return to the source of their community – this could entail wearing street clothes instead of a habit, since habits were often originally a prior century’s street clothes
  10. Wider variety of Scripture readings at Mass
  11. General opening up of the Church to the outside world
  12. Additional saints canonized
  13. Divine Mercy Sunday instituted
  14. Some holy days of obligation (e.g., Epiphany, Ascension) often transferred to the nearest Sunday
  15. Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary approved
  16. Divine Office/Liturgy of the Hours/Breviary available in vernacular languages
  17. Laypeople encouraged to pray Divine Office/Liturgy of the Hours/Breviary
What has not changed in the Catholic Church since Vatican II:

Doctrine

Anybody have any other suggestions?
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Then there’s restoration of the permanent diaconate.
 
Friend, you sound very anguished. I will tell you, as I tell any disaffected Catholic, to not come to us in a cranky way. Being Orthodox is different. It entails a complete change of approach to worship and Christian life. Discernment is vital.
 
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