Vatican II changes to the Ordinary Form of the Mass

[EphelDuath]

I’m curious about a lot of the changes from the pre-Vatican II Mass to the modern Novus Ordo. Why is it that the Tridentine Form wasn’t simply translated into the vernacular? What was the stated intent of altering many of the prayers, removing the altar rails, et al.?

 

[CDNowak]

I’m curious about a lot of the changes from the pre-Vatican II Mass to the modern Novus Ordo. Why is it that the Tridentine Form wasn’t simply translated into the vernacular? What was the stated intent of altering many of the prayers, removing the altar rails, et al.?

Vatican II made no changes to the Mass. In the years following the Council there was at least one “transitional Missal” with limited usage that was largely a translation into English.

If you want to know the intent behind the changes you would need to ask Archbishop Bugini.

The “remodeling” of Churches was nowhere called for at any point.

 

[EphelDuath]

Well perhaps this is just an odd translation, but for instance; the preface for the Tridentine Latin Mass is: “Vere dignum et justum est, aequum et salutare, nos tibi semper, et ubique gratias agere: Domine sancte, Pater omnipotens, aeterne Deus.” / “It is indeed fitting and right, our duty and our salvation, always and everywhere to give thanks to You, Lord, Holy Father, almighty and eternal God.”

At whatever American Mass I celebrate, the translation is, “We do well, always and everywhere, to give you thanks…” This is an indicative, whereas the above is an imperative. (I’ve always been uncomfortable with this translation, by the way. I certainly don’t do well always and everywhere!)

 

[CDNowak]

Well perhaps this is just an odd translation, but for instance; the preface for the Tridentine Latin Mass is: “Vere dignum et justum est, aequum et salutare, nos tibi semper, et ubique gratias agere: Domine sancte, Pater omnipotens, aeterne Deus.” / “It is indeed fitting and right, our duty and our salvation, always and everywhere to give thanks to You, Lord, Holy Father, almighty and eternal God.”

At whatever American Mass I celebrate, the translation is, “We do well, always and everywhere, to give you thanks…” This is an indicative, whereas the above is an imperative. (I’ve always been uncomfortable with this translation, by the way. I certainly don’t do well always and everywhere!)

I had (and probably still have in an attic a few states away) a transitional missal with the a translation much closer to the first than the second, and similarly accurate throughout. IIRC, the date on it was 1965.

There are many issues with the current translation, which is why there will be a new one in 20 months or so (Advent 2011).

 

[John_Lilburne]

The first major document of Vatican II is called Sacrosanctum Concilium. It is at vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html . It includes:

"III. The Reform of the Sacred Liturgy

1. In order that the Christian people may more certainly derive an abundance of graces from the sacred liturgy, holy Mother Church desires to undertake with great care a general restoration of the liturgy itself. For the liturgy is made up of immutable elements divinely instituted, and of elements subject to change. These not only may but ought to be changed with the passage of time if they have suffered from the intrusion of anything out of harmony with the inner nature of the liturgy or have become unsuited to it.

In this restoration, both texts and rites should be drawn up so that they express more clearly the holy things which they signify; the Christian people, so far as possible, should be enabled to understand them with ease and to take part in them fully, actively, and as befits a community."

 

[CDNowak]

…

And…?

The Council called for some changes, but the Concillium headed by Archbishop Bugini made the changes, and he is the one who could tell you why they didn’t modify the existing Rite.

 

[MarkThompson]

Well perhaps this is just an odd translation, but for instance; the preface for the Tridentine Latin Mass is: “Vere dignum et justum est, aequum et salutare, nos tibi semper, et ubique gratias agere: Domine sancte, Pater omnipotens, aeterne Deus.” / “It is indeed fitting and right, our duty and our salvation, always and everywhere to give thanks to You, Lord, Holy Father, almighty and eternal God.”

At whatever American Mass I celebrate, the translation is, “We do well, always and everywhere, to give you thanks…” This is an indicative, whereas the above is an imperative. (I’ve always been uncomfortable with this translation, by the way. I certainly don’t do well always and everywhere!)

Actually, the Latin is not an imperative (“Give thanks!” or “Let us give thanks!”). It’s a declarative, indicative sentence, whose main verb is est: It is fitting to give you thanks. The English is not a very exact translation, but the problem isn’t the grammatical mood.

 

[Lazarette]

One of the largest changes for me was the expanded lectionary, from a one year cycle of readings to a three year cycle (Sundays). Another reason was that prior to the coundil, people frequently said the rosary duirng Mass and there was a desire to clarify the difference between Mass and devotions.

I can’t speak to the translations. As someone noted above, there will be a new translation soon.