Vatican II Changes

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Redkim

I think sometimes our focus is misplaced on what Vatican II changed rather than on what has remained the same. But some of the changes I could note are:
The Second Vatican Council was called by Pope John XXIII in 1962, and continued under Pope Paul VI until 1965 when it issued “The Documents of Vatican II,” each on different aspects of church teaching and doctrine. The attitude of these documents were remarkably different from any the Roman Church had ever produced. What was different was they were full of scriptural references, and did not include any blatant “curses” on those who did not agree (as previous councils had done).

On previous occasions, Rome has changed her tactics when old methods became ineffective, but she has never changed her nature. In any religious organization, doctrine is the most basic and important part of its structure, since what people believe determines what they do. An official document, `The Constitution on the Church’ prepared by the Council and approved by the Pope, reaffirms basic Catholic doctrine precisely as it stood before the Council met.

In fact, no more sweeping claims were made by the Council of Trent (1545-1563), nor by the First Vatican Council (1870), than are made in these documents from Vatican II. Despite all the claims to the contrary, the Council has firmly maintained the doctrine of the primacy of Peter (4) and of papal succession

Dr. Loraine Boettner, noted authority on Roman Catholic doctrine, takes an in-depth look at the documents of Vatican II in the preface to the fifth edition of his book Roman Catholicism. And he writes:
"The `Constitution on the Church’ makes it abundantly clear that Rome has no intention of revising any of her basic doctrine, but only of updating her methods and techniques for more efficient administration and to present a more attractive appearance. This is designed to make it easier for the Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, and Protestant churches to return to her fold. There is no indication that she has any intentions of entering into genuine give-and-take church unity negotiations. Her purpose is not union, but ABSORPTION. Church union with Rome is strictly a one-way street. The age-old danger that Protestantism has faced from the Roman Church has not diminished; in fact, it may well have increased. For through this less offensive posture and this superficial ecumenicism, Rome is much better situated to carry out her program of eliminating opposition and moving into a position of world dominance. AN INFALLIBLE CHURCH SIMPLY CANNOT REPENT
“Her purpose is not union, but ABSORPTION” - this I think is an important point regarding what ecumenicism is. I think how Mel Gibson’s film, The Passion, was definitely a Catholic Film but how it has touched the lives of many non-Catholic Christians – how many of them may convert to Catholicism through it’s influence will not be readily known. But ecumenicism and evangalization of the Catholic Faith, I would say, are probably the two biggies instituted (and misunderstood) by Vatican II.
 
“in what context do you mean my anathametized?

This is from UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO:
Even in the beginnings of this one and only Church of God there arose certain rifts,(19) which the Apostle strongly condemned.(20) But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church-for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame. The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church-whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church-do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body,(21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.(22)
This is quite a departure from Trent, which heaped anathemas on all not in communion with the Catholic Church.

T. More
 
Deo:

Thanks for that incredibly informative post. It’s as if you saw what was directly beneath the surface of my question: the reason why I was asking it. I agree: we focus too much on the differences and don’t realize how much has actually stayed the same.

People do that with the TLM and NOM. Since I’ve started going to the TLM (Yes, I love it and love it’s reverence) there are also many things I see that are NOT all that different from a reverent NOM.

And I also love the bit you gave on ecumenism. I have always understood what the Church actually meant by ecumenism (absorption) and not the plea-bargaining idea that many people seem to have, including some of our priests and bishops.

Yes, it’s nice to see the common ground we have other religions, but that’s as far as it should go. Seeing that common ground does not mean EQUAL or AS GOOD AS.

In one way, seeing the common ground only makes it even more painful that we are not together.
 
In one way, seeing the common ground only makes it even more painful that we are not together
I used to gag at that “common ground” term until I realized that we can’t dialogue with anyone or hope to convert them if we are on hostile ground;)

In many testimonies I have heard from former protestants and especially former protestant ministers - it was through their reading of the early Fathers of the church that they came to realize that the true Faith was the Catholic Faith.

I remember the first time I read the Didache - I was astounded. Talk about the deposit of faith remaining basically unchanged from the teachings of the apostles -

newadvent.org/fathers/0714.htm
 
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deogratias:
Dr. Loraine Boettner, noted authority on Roman Catholic doctrine, takes an in-depth look at the documents of Vatican II in the preface to the fifth edition of his book Roman Catholicism. And he writes:

“Her purpose is not union, but ABSORPTION” - this I think is an important point regarding what ecumenicism is. I think how Mel Gibson’s film, The Passion, was definitely a Catholic Film but how it has touched the lives of many non-Catholic Christians – how many of them may convert to Catholicism through it’s influence will not be readily known. But ecumenicism and evangalization of the Catholic Faith, I would say, are probably the two biggies instituted (and misunderstood) by Vatican II.
I am not sure who Boettner is, but he sounds almost like a Protestant, warning of the danger Rome poses to them. And I am not sure I agree that the Church’s intent is absorption. We have 20+ rites, most of which people are ignorant of. And in the joining between some of the Anglicans and the Roman rite, they were allowed to keep a number of things that still distinguish them from the Roman rite. Unity is not one massive cookie cutter, with which all will be “cut”.
 
SRedkim, you sure kicked up a strorm of good stuff. I just want to make one mention about the Kingship of Christ. Very simply, read the Mass Collect for the feast from both the old and new Mass. You will be amazed at the difference. The Mass collect would be in the Proper of the Feast day. If you can’t locate them. I will look them up and post them for you.

By the way, there was a post about the people who want the old Mass restored. Then there was a mention, about things not being about just the Mass. A good thought is that the first change that was introduced was the New Order Of the Mass. This then started the degeneration of many things. Would not the restoration of the old Mass start the regeneration of good ole things. Have a great day!!
 
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