Vatican II confusion - help please! :]

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mary_di_valerio

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I’m doing a project on Vatican II and have NO idea where to start! Many of the sources out there are confusing and controversial and I don’t know what to think. Could you please direct me to a site w/ reliable information on Vatican II?

Thanks,

Mar:)
 
Thank You. I did find that website helpful. However, I’m looking more for websites that explain the infabillity/non infabillity of Vatican II. Which is difficult considering the debate and controversy over the subject.

Mar:)
 
what need is there of confusion? The council was NOT infallible according to the pope who was there!

“…it (the council) avoided pronouncing, in an extraordinary manner, dogmas endowed with the note of infallibility”.
(General audience, Jan 12, 1966).
 
Chec the documents themselves. They arn’t hard to read. But when you read commentary on them check to make sure that they don’t try to rewrite the documents to say things which either are not in the document, or are in direct opposition to them. I got my first copy of the documents in the late seventies. I soon found that anytime someone said that something was in the spirit of Vatican II there was a lie coming. I used to question my pastors, after mass, about the things they said during their sermon with the copy of the documents handy. which ended a lot of that nonsense. But I degress, just be careful of the websites that they don’t try to place the “spirit” (their interpertation) of vatican II on their writings. Make sure that it is ortadox. God Bless
 
I’m not sure that a council itself can be infallible or non-infallible. I think that only teachings or proclamations of dogma (perhaps cming from a council) can be infallible. Obviously the council was binding, meaning that we are all required to submit to the teachings and practices therein.

What I’m getting at is maybe you are having a hard time finding an answer because you are asking the wrong question. A council can determine matters of discipline (like the use of more Scripture in the liturgy, LG #35) which are binding, but for which the question of infallibility does not arise. AFAIK, the statements in the Vatican II documents are either of that nature, or relate to statements that were previously defined infallibly (and thus have no need ot being defined infallibly again, by definition), or are sort of “position statements” not requiring any specific action or dogmatic assent, like “One engages in the apostolate through the faith, hope, and charity which the Holy Spirit diffuses in all members of the Church.” (AA #3)

But I’m not an expert. I may be over-simplifying.

–Jen
 
Chapter 11 of Creative Fidelity: Weighing and Interpreting the Documents of the Magisterium by Francis Aloysius Sullivan covers this in great detail.
 
I’d urge anyone wanting to study Vatican II to go right to the documents that the council itself published. A good deal of writing about V-II comes from those who invoked its (non-existent) “spirit,” in order to try to make changes, and those who railed against the councils “changes” to the Catholic faith, of which there were absolutely none.

With respect to infallibility, a couple of things to note. Councils, in union with the Holy Father, can, and certainly have, made infallible pronouncements on faith and morals. This council did not seek to do so - see the quote in the earlier post. It wasn’t it’s purpose. That said, it did reiterate and deepen the examination of a number of things that are indeed infallible teaching in the areas of faith and morals. The fact is that infallible teachings can be found cited in many areas of the teachings and documents of the Church, which are not intended, in and of themselves, to make new infallible pronouncements. So here.

Some have noted that V-II did not set out to declare infallible teachings, and seek to contend that if something is cited in the council documents, it is therefore not infallible. Not necessarily true at all, for the reason noted above.

Enjoy the council documents. They are actually great reading (though certainly not always light reading 🙂 .)

Blessings,

Gerry
 
The documents are big help. I would start off reading Lumen Gentium or Dei Verbum. Personally the documents I have found helpful have been Sacrosanctum Concillium and Presbyterum Ordinis.
 
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