Vatican II: LAY FEMALE SEXUALLY ACTIVE EUCHARISTIC MINISTERS?

[joandarc2008]

Dear Br. David I fail to see how you reach that conclusion. The second quote in you previous post was my response to another poster.

I give up!:bowdown:

I not not taking any further involvement in this thread.

And I think that was what Br Dave meant when he said indirectly that since he had agreed with me and you were disagreeing with me that you were calling him wrong indirectly as he very distinctly said. That is why precise language is important.

 

[Cat_Herder]

A Bishop acts as such at Mass, even when he is visiting a different diocese, he still vests as a Bishop if he is the celebrant or con-celebrant.

This is true, but he has to ask the permission of the local bishop to use that bishop’s cathedral chair.

 

[JReducation]

This is true, but he has to ask the permission of the local bishop to use that bishop’s cathedral chair.

I’m soooooooooo confused. How did we get to the chair and the bishop on this subject. HELP!!!

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Timothysis]

I’m soooooooooo confused.

That makes two of us!!!

 

[Cat_Herder]

That makes two of us!!!

Well, Holy Orders got brought up somehow.

You are correct; Holy Orders really has nothing to do with the OP. As I said at the onset… there are no “female Eucharistic ministers.” They are extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion, which is only part of the Liturgy of the Eucharist. They can’t consecrate and are not ordained.

 

[joandarc2008]

Well, Holy Orders got brought up somehow.

You are correct; Holy Orders really has nothing to do with the OP. As I said at the onset… there are no “female Eucharistic ministers.” They are extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion, which is only part of the Liturgy of the Eucharist. They can’t consecrate and are not ordained.

Exactly - now bringing it back to the original topic:

For definitions:

Am I correct in stating for purposes of this thread that we are speaking of:

EHMCs not Eucharistic Ministers since female Eucharistic Ministers are in the realm of unicorns and purple elephants.

When we say sexually active we are speaking of those not holding up to the principles of Chastity by the principles of the Church in such a public way as to cause scandal (ie - single and pregnant and NOT the Holy Virgin or married and working at PlannedParenthood (yes I know -another thread but just finding a very public example))

Is this what we are discussing for purposes of this thread?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

When we say sexually active we are speaking of those not holding up to the principles of Chastity by the principles of the Church in such a public way as to cause scandal (ie - single and pregnant and NOT the Holy Virgin or married and working at PlannedParenthood (yes I know -another thread but just finding a very public example))

Is this what we are discussing for purposes of this thread?

No, when I specifically asked the OP how he knew the female EMHC was sexually he gave the example of a pregnant married woman.

 

[joandarc2008]

No, when I specifically asked the OP how he knew the female EMHC was sexually he gave the example of a pregnant married woman.

Wow - and I thought according to the our faith and the teachings of the Church, the Bride of the Lord Jesus Christ, that children were the fruit of marriage. I am confused. Not to derail but here is an article I wrote a while back - I hope it helps the PP find his way to true understanding of a woman’s role in the Church - and I don’t think this violates fair use - I wrote it, I can post it:

1. “Conceived by the Power of the Holy Spirit and Born of the Virgin Mary”

I. CONCEIVED BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. . .

484 The Annunciation to Mary inaugurates “the fullness of time”,119 the time of the fulfillment of God’s promises and preparations. Mary was invited to conceive him in whom the “whole fullness of deity” would dwell “bodily”.120 The divine response to her question, “How can this be, since I know not man?”, was given by the power of the Spirit: "The Holy Spirit will come upon you."121

485 The mission of the Holy Spirit is always conjoined and ordered to that of the Son.122 The Holy Spirit, “the Lord, the giver of Life”, is sent to sanctify the womb of the Virgin Mary and divinely fecundate it, causing her to conceive the eternal Son of the Father in a humanity drawn from her own.

486 The Father’s only Son, conceived as man in the womb of the Virgin Mary, is “Christ”, that is to say, anointed by the Holy Spirit, from the beginning of his human existence, though the manifestation of this fact takes place only progressively: to the shepherds, to the magi, to John the Baptist, to the disciples.123 Thus the whole life of Jesus Christ will make manifest "how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power.”

    During the last few months there has been much talk of true equality in the Catholic Church. Many have equated this to the Ordination of women which is closed doctrine and wrong. Really though if one is to take this theology one step further one can quickly realize that true equality Church can happen everyday by understanding the role of the Virgin Mary.

      In every Mass the priest consecrates the Eucharist. In doing this it is not truly the priest changing the bread to flesh and the wine to blood it is Christ. It is the priest that acts in person of Christ. So in every Liturgy of the Eucharist we have Christ present twice – once physically in the Eucharist, and once acting during the consecration. Here most modern day feminists without and understanding for true Dogma and Doctrine are quick to call the Church male-centered and without care for women. However, they forget without the Virgin Mary there is no Christ.

      In the days of the Garden of Eden Eve wanted things to be “her way.” She was disobedient and wished to listen to the serpent. In doing that she unlocked many generations of knowledge and original sin. Through the Virgin Mary’s obedience she gave flesh to the Lord in the form of man. This allowed for all other Sacraments to follow and be instituted by Christ. This is why we see many statues of the Blessed Virgin crushing the head of the serpent.

      This does not mean that to be obedient women cannot be leaders in the Church. It simply means that women cannot consecrate Sacrament. Women are to be respected and adored for what we are – the mothers, sisters, and wives of every Saint, priest, nun, friar, brother, or any other important figure that you can think of to come in the next century. As our society demeans women through pornography, abortion, birth control, and other such behaviors; society works to destroy this basic influence that we have been given to help guide our society towards Christ by Mary, Queen of Saints.

      So tonight, when you pray your rosary, give some thought to your own treatment of women. Have you stuck up for a woman lately? Have you turned off negative influences in your own home? Or have you contributed just a little bit to the culture of death and tipped the scales of inequality?

 

[notredame_999]

this article artiuclates my point in the original post even more than I could.

latinmassmagazine.com/articles/articles_emasculation.html

 

[guanophore]

I haven't got my terms confused. Chastity is refraining from sex, period. To say chastity is only refraining from illicit sex is misrepresenting its meaning.

It seems you have some reading in your catechism to do .

As was posted above, everyone is expected to be chaste, which means that our sexual lives are congruent with the status in life to which we are called.

 Celibacy is not marrying.

No.

Celibacy is when a person consectrates their sexuality to God (makes himself a “eunuch” for the Kingdom). there are people that do not marry that have not made a commitment to celibacy, but are chaste.

Among these are persons who are divorced, and do not re-,marry because they would commit adultery. Some hope to be reconciled to their spouse, but some accept that this will never happen. Some do not marry because their spouse is alive (but has left them or is unable to participate in the marital relation for other reasons). They may choose to marry if they become a widow.

I did read your post and if you believe chastity is promised in confirmation then please point out where.

In the Latin Rite, when one receives confirmation, one affirms the vows that were often made on their behalf in baptism, to accept and practice all the teachings of the Church. Chastity is one of those teachingts.

confirmation is not in itself specifically about promising chastity.

No, but chastity is properly included.

 

[At_Trent]

We ever reach a verdict in this’n ?

L.F.S.A.E.M. … that will throw 'em for a loop

 

[joandarc2008]

No our friend still has not wrapped his mind around the difference between chastity and celibacy.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

No.

Celibacy is when a person consectrates their sexuality to God (makes himself a “eunuch” for the Kingdom). there are people that do not marry that have not made a commitment to celibacy, but are chaste.

Among these are persons who are divorced, and do not re-,marry because they would commit adultery. Some hope to be reconciled to their spouse, but some accept that this will never happen. Some do not marry because their spouse is alive (but has left them or is unable to participate in the marital relation for other reasons). They may choose to marry if they become a widow.

If you are saying “no” you need to expand on your definition because all you have done is described people in an unmarried state.

 

[joandarc2008]

If you are saying “no” you need to expand on your definition because all you have done is described people in an unmarried state.

Matthew we have given you the religious definitions for words chastity and celibacy. You have chosen instead to go with the definitions from a Secular source. Seeing as you should have a Catechism of the Catholic Church to look at you should be able to do so and see what we are telling you is true. Are you rejecting the Church’s teaching on this matter because if so there is no point arguing with a wall if you choose secular definitions over religious ones?