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JSmitty2005
Guest
MichellemyBelle said:
The Catechism (#848) calls Catholicism the “faith without which it is impossible to please Him.”
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MichellemyBelle
Guest
JSmitty2005 said:
The above link send you to a persons OPINION. Whereas I am quoting Popes, in Bulls, Encyclicals and DOGMAS of the faith. JSmitty…please you can do better than this! Your quoting this little website over and over like its supposedly better than 1900 YEARS of scholarly work. Give me something better than that. This is pittance! Ha!
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JSmitty2005
Guest
I don’t recall quoting that “over and over.” And the reason I sent it is because it’s saying exactly what you’re saying! The Church of Christ is the Holy Catholic Church and Her only.
Tertullian said:
The only thing true in other religions are those things that they share with Catholicism.
St. Augustine said:
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MichellemyBelle
Guest
Yes? Your point is? You are agreeing with me by this little bitty post…or is it something else altogether?
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JSmitty2005
Guest
My point is that you don’t have a case. Give it up. The Church still believes that “…that God cannot truly be adored except within its fold.” Pope St. Gregory the Great
I think that the operative word in that quote is “truly.” I don’t think that you would claim that heretics like Protestants don’t worship the same God even though they may have gross misunderstandings concerning Him, His nature, His teachings, or His Church. Likewise with the Mohammedians.
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MichellemyBelle
Guest
It is very apparent you read nothing of what I write. Very apparent. Am I saying that heretics such as Prots don’t worship the same God? Yes I would go on the limb and say that I am. Why? Because they reject completely out of hand the True Presence in the Sacrament of the Eucharist how can they adore the same God. It isn’t happening. Furthermore, I believe I can make such a daring ‘claim’ because I once was a heretic. You, my dear misguided one; are truly off center. You need to scroll up and read each and every word I write, because then you’d see that we most likely are in more agreement than not. But alas, you wish to put up a defensive front which is quite unproductive. Waste your energies elsewhere. I don’t need conversion to the One, True, Apostolic Faith. You on the other hand seem to read little websites to get your information. While your in college why not spend time reading what the original Church Fathers have said. You will find I am correct. These suppose ‘new’ Church ‘fathers’ are injecting their opinions, erroneous interpretations into what needs no more interpretation just so ‘we can all get along’.
I don’t anticipate hearing from you for a longgggg while, if you truly seek the truth. Until then, I bid you adeiu.
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JSmitty2005
Guest
May I ask, what are you so angry about?It is very apparent you read nothing of what I write. Very apparent. Wrong. I definitely read it. Am I saying that heretics such as Prots don’t worship the same God? Show me where the Church officially states that heretics do not worship the One True God. Yes I would go on the limb and say that I am. Why? Because they reject completely out of hand the True Presence in the Sacrament of the Eucharist how can they adore the same God. It isn’t happening. Furthermore, I believe I can make such a daring ‘claim’ because I once was a heretic. Congratulations! :clapping: :bowdown2:You, my dear misguided one; are truly off center. No, actually you seem to be the one that’s way off center. I may lean towards traditional Catholicism but you are totally extreme. You need to scroll up and read each and every word I write, because then you’d see that we most likely are in more agreement than not. That’s what I was thinking, and that’s why I was wondering why are you writing malicious messages like this one? But alas, you wish to put up a defensive front which is quite unproductive. I was not being defensive. I was simply showing that you weren’t presenting the entire context and that in fact the Church didn’t change any kind of doctrines with Vatican II. Waste your energies elsewhere. I don’t need conversion to the One, True, Apostolic Faith. I haven’t suggested that you do. You on the other hand seem to read little websites to get your information. While your in college why not spend time reading what the original Church Fathers have said. I’m working on it. You will find I am correct. But I still haven’t found anything you’ve said to be correct. These suppose ‘new’ Church ‘fathers’ are injecting their opinions, erroneous interpretations into what needs no more interpretation just so ‘we can all get along’. I agree with you here.
I don’t anticipate hearing from you for a longgggg while, if you truly seek the truth. **Sorry, but you just heard from me.** Until then, I bid you adeiu. **Hello again!
**
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JSmitty2005
Guest
Wrong. I definitely read it.
(Since you’re new here, I’ll give you some advice: don’t call Protestants “Prots” or you’ll get yelled at by the moderators. I’ve been there before. ) Please show me where the Church officially and infallibly states that heretics do not worship the One True God.
Congratulations! :clapping: :bowdown2: Would you like a cookie?
No, actually you seem to be the one that’s way off center. I may lean towards traditional Catholicism but you are totally extreme. :whacky: Also, dear, please do not call me dear. Misguided? Maybe, but how would you know? I think some just might consider you a little more misguided than I, but who knows?
That’s what I was thinking, and that’s why I was wondering why you are writing malicious messages like this one?
Uh huh. I was simply showing that you weren’t presenting the entire context and that in fact the Church didn’t change any kind of doctrines with Vatican II. There is nothing wrong with being “defensive” when it comes to Truth.
I haven’t suggested that you do. If anyone is wasting energy here, it’s you. I am the only person dumb enough to even respond to your posts anymore.
You seem to think you know what I do, but you don’t. As for reading the Church Fathers, I’ve been doing just that for quite some time now. (I think that you meant while YOU’RE in college. Have you been there?)
:nope: I still haven’t found anything you’ve said to be completely correct. Your posts seem to be full of half-truths, which isn’t any better than what the modernists do.
I agree with you that there’s a lot of misinterpretation going on and also that peace should not be sought at the expense of Truth.
Sorry, but you just heard from me.
Hello again!
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MichellemyBelle
Guest
The damnable remark made by Ratzinger, here, is the last statement. Read it closely. “It has the first place of rank among modern doctrinal texts…”
Modern? Where does Tradition come into play. The first mark of the Church is Her traditions.
Regarding the early Church using the novus ordo…the Sacraments grow, in a germane way, over the centuries. To return to them is to digress. Like the people who support such an avenue, they return to their “evolutionary roots” as monkeys, and believe this to be a positive thing.
Hummmm.
Modern? Where does Tradition come into play. The first mark of the Church is Her traditions.
Regarding the early Church using the novus ordo…the Sacraments grow, in a germane way, over the centuries. To return to them is to digress. Like the people who support such an avenue, they return to their “evolutionary roots” as monkeys, and believe this to be a positive thing.
Hummmm.
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MichellemyBelle
Guest
This is another example to not talk of issues but to undermine a messenger of Truth. Further, I suppose I am ‘too’ Catholic. Hmmm, thank you. Glad to hear from you. You still did not read one iota of what I posted. Other than to attempt to discredit me by making personal attacks. Which is fine. That is all you have going for you. Whereas I stand by the Truth. No matter how much it hurts to know the Truth and know that people such as yourself are unwilling to learn and know their faith in its fullness.Wrong. I definitely read it.
(Since you’re new here, I’ll give you some advice: don’t call Protestants “Prots” or you’ll get yelled at by the moderators. I’ve been there before. ) Please show me where the Church officially and infallibly states that heretics do not worship the One True God.
Congratulations! :clapping: :bowdown2: Would you like a cookie?
No, actually you seem to be the one that’s way off center. I may lean towards traditional Catholicism but you are totally extreme. :whacky: Also, dear, please do not call me dear. Misguided? Maybe, but how would you know? I think some just might consider you a little more misguided than I, but who knows?
That’s what I was thinking, and that’s why I was wondering why you are writing malicious messages like this one?
Uh huh. I was simply showing that you weren’t presenting the entire context and that in fact the Church didn’t change any kind of doctrines with Vatican II. There is nothing wrong with being “defensive” when it comes to Truth.
I haven’t suggested that you do. If anyone is wasting energy here, it’s you. I am the only person dumb enough to even respond to your posts anymore.
You seem to think you know what I do, but you don’t. As for reading the Church Fathers, I’ve been doing just that for quite some time now. (I think that you meant while YOU’RE in college. Have you been there?)
:nope: I still haven’t found anything you’ve said to be completely correct. Your posts seem to be full of half-truths, which isn’t any better than what the modernists do.
I agree with you that there’s a lot of misinterpretation going on and also that peace should not be sought at the expense of Truth.
Sorry, but you just heard from me.
Hello again!
As far as calling Prots’ Prots, and the moderators getting into a tither over that, thank you. But seriously wouldn’t they have more important things to worry about. Since I am a former “Prot”, from the Assembly of God mind you, I can call myself whatever I wish.
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mosher
Guest
These are the same arguments that I have heard time and time again copied and pasted in various forums around the net. Further discussion is frivolous.
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Lazerlike42
Guest
Ma’am, how do you expect us to take you seriously as a Christian who is sincerely concerned with the truth when your lips spout such venom?
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MichellemyBelle
Guest
Lazerlike, I find your post to be utterly baffling. I am spouting venom? Quite the opposite. Nor do I care what you think of me, the truth is what it is. Take it or leave it. Somehow that is construed to be venomous. Interesting. I think again, the point that I have attempted to make, and indeed perhaps has been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere; in regards to this thread has been attempted to be nullified. In making these points; I get attacked personally. And then you write that? Hmmm.
As far as Christian charity. What is given by meaning so called ‘conservative’ Catholics is a false charity, which I can not sit idlly by and say nothing. The things I have stated have been known to Catholics for two milliena. Somehow many of those here have been innoculated into this false sense of complacency. A imbued aura of confusion and who else is the father of that?
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Lazerlike42
Guest
I am referring to your sarcasm, your practice of referring to others as immature and their statements as ‘ridicuous’, and your otherwise callous approach. Many of your posts have been worded with a great deal of hostility and sarcasm, and could much more appropriately have been presented in far more charitable ways. If you truly disagree with my position, I understand that. However, I am saddened that you have been unwilling to present your disagreements with more charity.
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MichellemyBelle
Guest
No, that is something that you are reading into what I am saying. You are creating inflections that are not there.
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Lazerlike42
Guest
Sarcasm.
Making assumptions, and refusing to take him at his word. He said he read it.
You are making quite a judgment on this man here. Even if you are firm in your convictions, the most you can say about him is that he is incorrect. To say that he is unwilling reads far into his heart and soul, and is not something that you, or any other human being, are qualified to do. I, and most of us here, often question people’s knowledge, but never their sincerity. In fact, it is on of the official rules of the board that we not do this.
He tried to offer you a sincere suggestion, and you reply by indicating that you are obviously above this policy and by criticizing the moderators. You do say thank you, but with the sentence that follows your thank you, the reply amounts to, .thanks, but no thanks.’
Rude and insulting.
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Lazerlike42
Guest
Many of the Church fathers believed many things which have been explicitly condemned by the Church over the past two millenia. I’m sure you could find support from the fathers for your claims, however this does not prove them, and they, not being Magisterial authorities, hold little weight other than to show what many once believed, not what the Church officially taught at the time. There was a time when most of the Church believed in Arianism; simply showing a majority belief does not suffice to provea doctrine.
So in regards to the Sacraments, you belive in a growth, but in regards to doctrines such as EENS, you believe in a stagnancy?
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Lazerlike42
Guest
I once more must point out that if you wish to use Ratzinger to prove your points, you must accept his statements that Vatican II requires the full assent of the faithful, and that it is upheld by the same authority as Trent and Vatican I, and that if a person wishes to throw out Vatican II, both Vatican I and Trent must also be thrown out. They are inseperable, according to Ratzinger.
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loyola38
Guest
Yes, joining the likes of the SSPX is certainly a dangerous path.
You will have to brave the attacks of heretical clerics, the worldly congregations that they half-lead and half-follow, and some members of internet fora. On the other hand, you will help to restore the Mass, the heart of the Church. You will serve as a counter-weight to Modernist, Protestant, and Masonic influences.
To the extent that you contribute to the restoration of the Faith, you may even help save a few souls.
Remaining Catholic in the face of the world and its passing fashions has always been dangerous.
Dominus tecum,
Loyola
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