Vatican II, Tridentine rite and the Popes

[Louie1983]

Hi Everyone,

There’s been a bit of discussion on other threads about the recent popes and vatican II changing the mass and this being linked to Fatima etc.

Given the recent actions of Pope Benedict XVI in regards of lifting the excommunications on those 4 SSPX priests and allowing a lot more use of the tridentine mass, can this be seen as a move from the pope leading the church to possibly returning to the tridentine mass? Is there a secret agenda behind this move from the pope?

I look forward to your responses as i’m keen to learn more on this subject, i currently attend the novus ordo mass, but i have attended the tridentine mass before and could not for the life of me understand why they wanted to change it!

God bless!

 

[I_Believe]

Given the recent actions of Pope Benedict XVI in regards of lifting the excommunications on those 4 SSPX priests and allowing a lot more use of the tridentine mass, can this be seen as a move from the pope leading the church to possibly returning to the tridentine mass? Is there a secret agenda behind this move from the pope?

I look forward to your responses as i’m keen to learn more on this subject, i currently attend the novus ordo mass, but i have attended the tridentine mass before and could not for the life of me understand why they wanted to change it!

God bless!

Hi Louie. If we return to the Gregorian Rite (TLM) as the norm, it will be because our young priests embrace it.

Pope BXVI does not have an secret agenda. He just wants us to regain what we have lost. It would be very foolish to abrogate the Novus Ordo. The majority of priests either don’t want to pray it, or are not properly trained to do so. And just as it was wrong to jerk the TLM out from under the flock, it would be wrong to jerk the NO out from under those who were raised on it.

The only secret agenda was discovered with the Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita falling into the hands of Pope Gregory XVI.

“The Pope, whoever he is, will never come to the secret societies; it is up to the secret societies to take the first step toward the Church, with the aim of conquering both of them.

“The task that we are going to undertake is not the work of a day, or of a month, or of a year; it may last several years, perhaps a century; but in our ranks the soldier dies and the struggle goes on.

“We do not intend to win the Popes to our cause, to make them neophytes of our principles, propagators of our ideas. That would be a ridiculous dream; and if events turn out in some way, if Cardinals or prelates, for example, of their own free will or by surprise, should enter into a part of our secrets, this is not at all an incentive for desiring their elevation to the See of Peter. That elevation would ruin us. Ambition alone would have led them to apostasy, the requirements of power would force them to sacrifice us. What we must ask for, what we should look for and wait for, as the Jews wait for the Messiah, is a Pope according to our needs …

“With that we shall march more securely towards the assault on the Church than with the pamphlets of our brethren in France and even the gold of England. Do you want to know the reason for this? It is that with this, in order to shatter the high rock on which God has built His Church, we no longer need Hannibalian vinegar, or need gunpowder, or even need our arms. We have the little finger of the successor of Peter engaged in the ploy, and this little finger is as good, for this crusade, as all the Urban II’s and all the Saint Bernards in Christendom.

“We have no doubt that we will arrive at this supreme end of our efforts. But when? But how? The unknown is not yet revealed. Nevertheless, as nothing should turn us aside from the plan drawn up, and on the contrary everything should tend to this, as if as early as tomorrow success were going to crown the work that is barely sketched, we wish, in this instruction, which will remain secret for the mere initiates, to give the officials in the charge of the supreme Vente some advice that they should instill in all the brethren, in the form of instruction or of a memorandum …

“Now then, to assure ourselves a Pope of the required dimensions, it is a question first of shaping him … for this Pope, a generation worthy of the reign we are dreaming of. Leave old people and those of a mature age aside; go to the youth, and if it is possible, even to the children … You will contrive for yourselves, at little cost, a reputation as good Catholics and pure patriots.

“This reputation will put access to our doctrines into the midst of the young clergy, as well as deeply into the monasteries. In a few years, by the force of things, this young clergy will have overrun all the functions; they will form the sovereign’s council, they will be called to choose a Pontiff who should reign. And this Pontiff, like most of his contemporaries, will be necessarily more or less imbued with the Italian and humanitarian principles that we are going to begin to put into circulation. It is a small grain of black mustard that we are entrusting to the ground; but the sunshine of justice will develop it up to the highest power, and you will see one day what a rich harvest this small seed will produce.

“In the path that we are laying out for our brethren, there are found great obstacles to conquer, difficulties of more than one kind to master. They will triumph over them by experience and by clearsightedness; but the goal is so splendid that it is important to put all the sails to the wind in order to reach it. You want to revolutionize Italy, look for the Pope whose portrait we have just drawn. You wish to establish the reign of the chosen ones on the throne of the prostitute of Babylon, let the Clergy march under your standard, always believing that they are marching under the banner of the apostolic keys. You intend to make the last vestige of tyrants and the oppressors disappear; lay your snares like Simon Bar-Jona; lay them in the sacristies, the seminaries, and the monasteries rather than at the bottom of the sea: and if you do not hurry, we promise you a catch more miraculous than his. The fisher of fish became the fisher of men; you will bring friends around the apostolic Chair. You will have preached a revolution in tiara and in cope, marching with the cross and the banner, a revolution that will need to be only a little bit urged on to set fire to the four corners of the world.”7

Read the rest and decide for yourself
freemasonrywatch.org/alta_vendita.html

 

[pnewton]

Pope Benedict said there is no going back, but that was prior to his papacy. Surely when that statement was printed it was no more than one Cardinal’s opinion and hardly binding. The best course is to wait and see while remaining obedient and faithful whether it suits our tastes or not.

 

[banished]

It seems like we are almost there! We read in I Peter 4:17:

“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?”

That was the King James Version, now here is the Catholic New American Bible Version:

“The season of judgment has begun, and begun with God’s own household. If it begins this way with us, what must be the end for those who refuse obedience to the gospel of God?”