Vatican II

[Missa_Solemnis]

Yes.

1.) I think the Pauline Mass should allow for more options from the Tridentine Mass- at least as options (like the prayers at the foot of the altar, the last Gospel, the leonine prayers, etc.).

2.) They should not transfer any feast days to Sunday, or let Ordinary Time supercede any feast days other than optional memorials.

3.) They should require the Ordinary of the Mass to be said or sung in Latin, but allow the propers (not necessarily require) to be done in the vernacular language.

4.) NO communion in the hand

5.) Unless physically inable, all should kneel at a communion rail to receive the Eucharist- the Host only.

6.) Male readers- preference given to instituted lectors. They should be properly vested.

7.) Altar BOYS (or instituted acolytes)

8.) Women at least strongly encouraged to wear veils.

9.) The Sequences for All Souls’ Day, Corpus Christi, Pentecost, Easter, Our Lady of Sorrows should be required.

10.) Some form of procession should be required on Corpus Christi.

11.) Mandatory cassocks for priests and bishops (traditional ones- with birettas and everything).

12.) Mandatory habits for religious.

13.) Change the rule for the Eucharistic fast back to the former requirement- to fast from midnight on.

14.) Pope St. Pius X (I think) made a requirement that all priests swear an oath against modernism. They should be required to do this again.

15.) Have high Masses (sprinkling rite, sung Gloria, Kyrie, Credo, etc., more standing), and low Masses (no sprinkling rite, spoken ordinaries- but still in Latin- and kneeling during more parts of the Mass).

Its sad that at one point these were the things that made Catholics stand out as Catholics. Now however Catholics have to fight for them back…

 

[seremina]

**I liked the listing of what should come back, though I don’t agree with all of the listing. For an easy understanding of Vatican II, I recommend this weblink.

ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/fessio_massv2_1_jan05.asp

I wish I had an understanding as to why Churches that do the Novo Ordus… or was it Novo Ordo…or Novus Ordo…gah! But back to the question. Why don’t the Churches that do the N.O. follow Vatican II fully? I mean, is it improper training in seminary, or do some people think its too much work?
**

 

[rwoehmke]

1.) I think the Pauline Mass should allow for more options from the Tridentine Mass- at least as options (like the prayers at the foot of the altar, the last Gospel, the leonine prayers, etc.).

2.) They should not transfer any feast days to Sunday, or let Ordinary Time supercede any feast days other than optional memorials.

3.) They should require the Ordinary of the Mass to be said or sung in Latin, but allow the propers (not necessarily require) to be done in the vernacular language.

4.) NO communion in the hand

5.) Unless physically inable, all should kneel at a communion rail to receive the Eucharist- the Host only.

6.) Male readers- preference given to instituted lectors. They should be properly vested.

7.) Altar BOYS (or instituted acolytes)

8.) Women at least strongly encouraged to wear veils.

9.) The Sequences for All Souls’ Day, Corpus Christi, Pentecost, Easter, Our Lady of Sorrows should be required.

10.) Some form of procession should be required on Corpus Christi.

11.) Mandatory cassocks for priests and bishops (traditional ones- with birettas and everything).

12.) Mandatory habits for religious.

13.) Change the rule for the Eucharistic fast back to the former requirement- to fast from midnight on.

14.) Pope St. Pius X (I think) made a requirement that all priests swear an oath against modernism. They should be required to do this again.

15.) Have high Masses (sprinkling rite, sung Gloria, Kyrie, Credo, etc., more standing), and low Masses (no sprinkling rite, spoken ordinaries- but still in Latin- and kneeling during more parts of the Mass).

I personally would like to see more Latin both spoken and chanted for those parts of the Mass like the Gloria, Credo etc. that occur almost every time, but I would pray the Lord to deliver us from bringing back some of the rest. I am of the opinion that it is somewhat presumptous to think that these things went away because of Vatican II. In the years between Trent and Vatican II there were changes in how the TLM was celebrated, for example the dialogue Mass, that didn’t come about because of the Council, but because someone in authority recognized a need for changes. I am guessing, but am pretty certain that some of the above list came about in the same manner, not because of a Council, but because a change or new practice was needed to respond to changes in the world that took place with the passage of the years. Some of them disappearef in the same manner. I do not deny that there is a lot of garbage that has been promulgated in “the spirit” of Vatican II, but there have been other changes like EHMCs, Lay Lectors, Permanent Deacons, Girls as Servers, etc. that were good moves. I am somewhat disappointed that many orders of Nuns went to lay garb instead of streamlining their habits and clerical collars on priests are good to see, but birettas and cassocks for street wear? Would any of us like to be wearing the fashions of those living in 18th century France or Italy or any other period and place one might think of?

Perhaps the saddest situation is the layperson who thinks Vatican II gave him a role in the structure of the liturgy and administrative affairs of the Church and sees no need to carry the Catholic Faith into the work place and government because he feels that what he is doing for the Church is sufficent.