Vatican meaning of ecumenism

[mek42]

What is meant when the Vatican uses the word ecumenical? How does this meaning interact with the fullness of truth doctrine?

 

[FrDavid96]

Here is how the Church defines ecumenism

1. The restoration of unity among all Christians is one of the principal concerns of the Second Vatican Council. Christ the Lord founded one Church and one Church only. However, many Christian communions present themselves to men as the true inheritors of Jesus Christ; all indeed profess to be followers of the Lord but differ in mind and go their different ways, as if Christ Himself were divided. Such division openly contradicts the will of Christ, scandalizes the world, and damages the holy cause of preaching the Gospel to every creature.

But the Lord of Ages wisely and patiently follows out the plan of grace on our behalf, sinners that we are. In recent times more than ever before, He has been rousing divided Christians to remorse over their divisions and to a longing for unity. Everywhere large numbers have felt the impulse of this grace, and among our separated brethren also there increases from day to day the movement, fostered by the grace of the Holy Spirit, for the restoration of unity among all Christians. This movement toward unity is called “ecumenical.” Those belong to it who invoke the Triune God and confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, doing this not merely as individuals but also as corporate bodies. For almost everyone regards the body in which he has heard the Gospel as his Church and indeed, God’s Church. All however, though in different ways, long for the one visible Church of God, a Church truly universal and set forth into the world that the world may be converted to the Gospel and so be saved, to the glory of God.

In Catholic documents, the first 2 (or 3) words are very important, and are always chosen very carefully, so note that the Church talks about a restoration of unity, and not to bring about some new kind of unity.

See also
24. Now that we have briefly set out the conditions for ecumenical action and the principles by which it is to be directed, we look with confidence to the future. This Sacred Council exhorts the faithful to refrain from superficiality and imprudent zeal, which can hinder real progress toward unity. Their ecumenical action must be fully and sincerely Catholic, that is to say, faithful to the truth which we have received from the apostles and Fathers of the Church, in harmony with the faith which the Catholic Church has always professed, and at the same time directed toward that fullness to which Our Lord wills His Body to grow in the course of time.

Those are just a few snippets (of course). I suggest reading the entire document. It’s not a very long one.

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html

 

[Oska2]

What is meant when the Vatican uses the word ecumenical? How does this meaning interact with the fullness of truth doctrine?

Ecumenical is a new face of the church to bring the separated brothers back to Roman Catholic Church. There-before the Church had tried other means but did not fully succeed.
Ecumenism is gearing towards a common faith for the whole world under one leader, the Pope. It would be rightly in tandem with the New World Order policies. The result would be the whole world becoming Catholic, and the Christ coming for the Church.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Ecumenical is a new face of the church to bring the separated brothers back to Roman Catholic Church. There-before the Church had tried other means but did not fully succeed.
Ecumenism is gearing towards a common faith for the whole world under one leader, the Pope. It would be rightly in tandem with the New World Order policies. The result would be the whole world becoming Catholic, and the Christ coming for the Church.

Well, one thing is for sure; the above is not a Vatican meaning of ecumenism, if the Pope is to be the one world leader instead of Jesus Christ who is our head?

 

[FrDavid96]

Well, one thing is for sure; the above is not a Vatican meaning of ecumenism, if the Pope is to be the one world leader instead of Jesus Christ who is our head?

Well, the tone aside, it actually is the Catholic definition of ecumenism—the whole world becoming Catholic. That’s not how we usually define it, but to be frank about it, that truly is the ultimate goal of ecumenism.

 

[Oska2]

Well, one thing is for sure; the above is not a Vatican meaning of ecumenism, if the Pope is to be the one world leader instead of Jesus Christ who is our head?

Please check in the following link: vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html

In the CHAPTER I on CATHOLIC PRINCIPLES ON ECUMENISM

There is a section that reads, “In order to establish this His holy Church everywhere in the world till the end of time, Christ entrusted to the College of the Twelve the task of teaching, ruling and sanctifying.(10) Among their number He selected Peter, and after his confession of faith determined that on him He would build His Church. Also to Peter He promised the keys of the kingdom of heaven
Jesus Christ, then, willed that the apostles and their successors - the bishops with Peter’s successor at their head - should preach the Gospel faithfully, administer the sacraments, and rule the Church in love”.

Th Pope, successor of Peter is the head of the church and should rule the church in love.
He is the Vicarious Filli Dei.

 

[Oska2]

Well, the tone aside, it actually is the Catholic definition of ecumenism—the whole world becoming Catholic. That’s not how we usually define it, but to be frank about it, that truly is the ultimate goal of ecumenism.

From “Catholic principles of Ecumenism”
… This is the way that, when the obstacles to perfect ecclesiastical communion have been gradually overcome, all Christians will at last, in a common celebration of the Eucharist, be gathered into the one and only Church in that unity which Christ bestowed on His Church from the beginning. We believe that this unity subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time.

 

[FrDavid96]

From “Catholic principles of Ecumenism”
… This is the way that, when the obstacles to perfect ecclesiastical communion have been gradually overcome, all Christians will at last, in a common celebration of the Eucharist, be gathered into the one and only Church in that unity which Christ bestowed on His Church from the beginning. We believe that this unity subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time.

Aahhh. I just noticed that you’re writing from Paris.

In American English “New World Order” has become a phrase to mean that the United Nations will takeover the world. To an American reader, that changed the tone of your post because (to us) it seemed that you were equating a universal Church with a dictatorship.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Please check in the following link: vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html

In the CHAPTER I on CATHOLIC PRINCIPLES ON ECUMENISM

There is a section that reads, “In order to establish this His holy Church everywhere in the world till the end of time, Christ entrusted to the College of the Twelve the task of teaching, ruling and sanctifying.(10) Among their number He selected Peter, and after his confession of faith determined that on him He would build His Church. Also to Peter He promised the keys of the kingdom of heaven
Jesus Christ, then, willed that the apostles and their successors - the bishops with Peter’s successor at their head - should preach the Gospel faithfully, administer the sacraments, and rule the Church in love”.

Th Pope, successor of Peter is the head of the church and should rule the church in love.
He is the Vicarious Filli Dei.

All of the above points to the mission of the “Church”, which I agree with you. But you defined the Pope as being “The WORLD leader”? I find this a conflict of terms don’t you think?

A world leader would be considered secular. Whereby the Vicar of Christ is not of this world.

 

[FrDavid96]

All of the above points to the mission of the “Church”, which I agree with you. But you defined the Pope as being “The WORLD leader”? I find this a conflict of terms don’t you think?

A world leader would be considered secular. Whereby the Vicar of Christ is not of this world.

Actually, those were not the words the poster used. What was written was
“…a common faith for the whole world under one leader, the Pope.”

There’s nothing secular about that.

I do think this is a language issue. The term “New World Order” has its own negative connotations in American English, which the writer (in Paris), perhaps, did not intend.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Well, the tone aside, it actually is the Catholic definition of ecumenism—the whole world becoming Catholic. That’s not how we usually define it, but to be frank about it, that truly is the ultimate goal of ecumenism.

I find a difference in definition between the Catholic principles of Ecumenism as a whole and the exact definition of Ecumenism when it is applied by the Church.

The Ecumenical principles include the unity of all Christians. It gets broken down to defined terms when the Church zero’s in on each of these diverse communions. For example to the Orthodox the dialogue is Ecumenical, whereby to our separated brethren the dialoque is reconciliation.

Paragraph I Catholic principles on Ecumenism

“However, it is evident that, when individuals wish for full Catholic communion, their preparation and reconciliation is an undertaking which of its nature is distinct from ecumenical action. But there is no opposition between the two, since both proceed from the marvelous ways of God”

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Actually, those were not the words the poster used. What was written was
“…a common faith for the whole world under one leader, the Pope.”

There’s nothing secular about that.

I do think this is a language issue. The term “New World Order” has its own negative connotations in American English, which the writer (in Paris), perhaps, did not intend.

“Ecumenism is gearing towards a common faith for the whole world under one leader, the Pope. It would be rightly in tandem with the New World Order policies”.

I am not protesting, I hoped for clarification as to not mislead the reader to misconceptions and false accusations the Pope’s wanting to be a world (secular) leading dictator. When he is never a secular power.

 

[FrDavid96]

“Ecumenism is gearing towards a common faith for the whole world under one leader, the Pope. It would be rightly in tandem with the New World Order policies”.

I am not protesting, I hoped for clarification as to not mislead the reader to misconceptions and false accusations the Pope’s wanting to be a world (secular) leading dictator. When he is never a secular power.

Oska2 never wrote anything about the pope as a secular leader. The poster wrote about a leader in faith.

Please read what was actually written.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Oska2 never wrote anything about the pope as a secular leader. The poster wrote about a leader in faith.

Please read what was actually written.

I did, but please read what concludes “the whole world under one world leader the pope” from Ecumenism.

"Ecumenism is gearing towards a common faith for the whole world under one leader, the Pope. It would be rightly in tandem with the New World Order policies".

I am glad this is being addressed, for clarification. Having one “whole world leader the pope”…to “be rightly in tandem with the New World Order policies”? Is not the language the Church uses to define, describe with “Ecumenical” principles.

Comparing Peter’s Chair with the New World Order policies gives an inclination to the suspicious anti-pope theories of the Pope’s being the anti-christ to rule as one leader over the whole world. Now this language I have personally found in ant-catholic, anti-pope circles.

I find no debate in the poster’s post, or reason to pick apart a poster’s thought. Just a note for clarification, that his/her language I do not find such language in the Catholic principles of Ecumenism. So why use them here?

There are many different principles and efforts the Church defines and uses from her ecumenical efforts.

1. Is the recovery of unity of all Christians
2. dialogue among our theologians
3. meetings with among Christians of a different communion

4.including but not limited to Ecumenical Efforts among Christians in various services to mankind.

1. ecumenical efforts to the carnal knowledge and truth of science, where faith is what gives reason and enlightenment to this Truth of science and the creation of the world. The Church speaks of ecumenical dialogue in these revealed truth’s, not only from science, but from those other religions that may be in possession or have a Truth that does not contradict our Creator.

Where we get ecumenical meaning the Pope to become the world leader of all the world’s faith? and then compare the Popes leadership that follows or is in “Tandem” with the secular New World policies?

Peace be with you

 

[FrDavid96]

…

I find no debate in the poster’s post, or reason to pick apart a poster’s thought. Just a note for clarification, that his/her language I do not find such language in the Catholic principles of Ecumenism. So why use them here?
…

You are not clarifying. You’re changing the meaning of what someone else wrote, to make it appear as if that poster wrote something different.

Your final question is “why use them here?”

You are the only one using them, so only you can answer the question.

 

[mek42]

Thank you all for the clarification.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

You are not clarifying. You’re changing the meaning of what someone else wrote, to make it appear as if that poster wrote something different.

Your final question is “why use them here?”

You are the only one using them, so only you can answer the question.

That’s unfair assesstion of what transpired, the verbage in the post used is not recorded in the Catholic document the poster presented. I raised a question for clarification. That is all.

My answer is. “Jesus Christ is our head”, Lord and King. the Pope is his Vicar on earth. Which echoes the Church’s language.

That is a disaster if I changed the meaning of a poster’s thought, that is never my intention. I am sorry if you see it that way. My purpose of posting is first to learn, give reason for my faith, and correct any misgivings of my faith. Then I yeild to the poster for clarification, so as not to draw an false conclusions.

But your intervention never allowed the communication to transpire and reach it’s full conclusion. But keep up the good work

Have a happy Lent

Peace be with you