C
- Status
S
Scoobyshme
Guest
Sounds like that would be a majority of “Catholic” universities in America. I wish they would do the same with “Catholic” grade schools and high schools, too. We have a “Catholic” school here in Alabama that is Catholic in name only. In reality, it’s a school for rich kids, most of whom aren’t even Catholic. Even the teachers aren’t all Catholic.
Anyway, I wholeheartedly agree with the pruning. That’s how God works, too. He’s not interested in numbers. He’s interested in quality. Faithfulness to His truths!
Anyway, I wholeheartedly agree with the pruning. That’s how God works, too. He’s not interested in numbers. He’s interested in quality. Faithfulness to His truths!
S
soccerDad
Guest
It is about time. I will be glad when actions follow words. Until then…
O
Orionthehunter
Guest
I agree that much of the toleration for dissent within Catholic institutions has created confusion and scandal and must be rectified. However, Soccerdad, I want to urge that we trust our Bishops and the Pope to do this in the manner and timeframe they discern from the Holy Spirit which may not be as the laity expect or desire.
Let me give you an example. My daughters attend a school who not only conforms diligently to Catholic Teaching but is proud of its Catholic Identity and nothing is watered down. I’m very pleased with their school in all material respects (of course, nothing is perfect). On the other hand, my two business partners who live in another city are not Catholic. They however both send their kids to a Catholic High School that I would characterize along the terms of Scooby above. For many years, I was uncomfortable with the lack of Catholic Identity and Practice at these schools and yet calling them Catholic. However, recently, one of the sons who has gone off to college (public university in another state) has informed his Baptist family that he has enrolled in RCIA and will convert. My point is that there are Graces being planted even in soil that we might believe less than fertile. While reform is prudent, we must be careful that we don’t do so in a way to be counter-productive.
A
Ani_Ibi
Guest
So the activism in which some of us participated last June actually had some effect. I know that Cardinal Levada was apprised of the situation concerning Rev Malloy’s controversial award given by the University of Western Ontario. Bishops D’Arcy and Fabbro were also apprised. Cardinal Ambrozic was apprised. And a bishop in Quebec was apprised.
I know that Bishop D’Arcy made a statement after the award that withdrawal of Catholic affiliation with Kings College – the venue for Malloy’s award – was not presently indicated but may be in the future. I should certainly think that that statement was forthcoming, given the record of Kings College.
I also know that a Canadian businessmen with connections in the Vatican travelled there specifically last May to protest not only the Malloy award but the awards to the abortion activists which accompanied the Malloy award.
I also know that the Cardinal Newman Society and Priests for Life were aware of the situation.
So we learned this: letterwriting works.
I know that Bishop D’Arcy made a statement after the award that withdrawal of Catholic affiliation with Kings College – the venue for Malloy’s award – was not presently indicated but may be in the future. I should certainly think that that statement was forthcoming, given the record of Kings College.
I also know that a Canadian businessmen with connections in the Vatican travelled there specifically last May to protest not only the Malloy award but the awards to the abortion activists which accompanied the Malloy award.
I also know that the Cardinal Newman Society and Priests for Life were aware of the situation.
So we learned this: letterwriting works.
A
Ani_Ibi
Guest
That is your opinion. You get to have an opinion and to express an opinion because your life is not numbered among the 45 million of lives snuffed out by abortion.
My sad experience is that many students at Catholic colleges do not even know the Church’s teaching on abortion! Some even venture to make public statements to the media that they are “Catholics who believe in a woman’s right to abortion”!
This is a scandal in every sense of the word. It brings disrepute upon the name of the Church.
These students don’t know the Church’s teaching, not because no theology courses are offered or even required at Catholic colleges, but because the colleges themselves waffle and prevaricate on Magisterial authority and teaching.
There is confusion which is sown and cultivated by contradictory examples set by rebellious Catholic college administrations.
There is a remedy for this confusion: unequivocal action on the part of the bishops to discipline rebellious Catholic colleges.
A
Ani_Ibi
Guest
:yup:
O
Orionthehunter
Guest
Ani Ibi:
All I am advocating is that we support the Bishops and Pope as they endeavor on they endeavor on this important effort. I think we are seeing alot of positive “communications” coming from the USCCB and Rome that indicate they understand the crisis (especially in the American Church). The Pope’s selection of former San Francisco Archbishop Leveda as the his replacement as new Prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is an indication that he wants someone intimately informed on the problem in the American Church.
As I have become more involved in catechesis at our parish by being involved in RCIA, teaching CCD to five Freshman boys in my home, and being on the board of our dioceses Ignatius retreat center, I’ve come to appreciate that so much of the problem is poor catechesis. For the faithful (even those who are well-intentioned but misinformed) to fully understand and support the changes that I think we both advocate, the change has to be accompanied with catechesis and not just executive fiat from Rome.
As I said above I teach CCD in my home. About half of the boys live in homes that are nominally Catholic such that my efforts at CCD are not reinforced in the home. Father has counseled me to always approach this tenderly and pastorally. He tells me to not focus on what is “wrong” but to focus on what is good. While not watering down the Faith, he urges me to focus on instilling in them an awareness that God is longing for them as the father of the Prodigal Son longed for his son until his return. If they sense this longing, the Holy Spirit can then more easily do His work. He is emphatic that any indication of hardness or rigidity in my heart will be counter-productive. They have to always see and feel the tender heart of Jesus in everything I say. Otherwise, I’ll drive them away and that is not my mission.
My point is that we have to prayerfully support our Bishops and Pope as they take on this difficult issue. The abuses and misunderstandings were not created in a day adn their resolution will not happen overnight. More importantly, I will trust that Holy Spirit is guiding the Bishops and Pope on both the process, actions, and timeframe. And I will trust that if they have to resort to acts of discipline and sanction, it will be done after extra-ordinary efforts to effect the change pastorally and with a conversion of heart of the leadership. This is how Jesus works with each one of us as individuals. Why should it be any diffent with these universities led by imperfect individuals?
Regarding your comment that theology isn’t required at Catholic Universities is not correct if the experience of my daughter and myself is any indication. She is a h.s. senior and we are exploring Catholic University of America in D.C., St. Ben’s and St. Thomas in Minnesota, and Creighton University in Nebraska. All of them require religion classes (more for the Catholics who recieve the Catholic discount). More importantly, I’ve been impressed with the overt Catholic Identity evident throughout campus.
I know there are exceptions. We considered St. Catherine’s in Minnesota but were warned that this campus was considered one of hte colleges under review by the Archbishop of St. Paul. However, while we ruled it out for this daughter, I am comforted that the Archbishop is in the process of addressing the issue. Who knows when my baby daughter is ready for college, maybe St. Cate’s will be an option.
Please be more gentle. As I prefaced my remarks with “While reform is prudent, we must be careful that we don’t do so in a way to be counter-productive”. I agree that much of what has been done has been scandal and fostered confusion and worse.
All I am advocating is that we support the Bishops and Pope as they endeavor on they endeavor on this important effort. I think we are seeing alot of positive “communications” coming from the USCCB and Rome that indicate they understand the crisis (especially in the American Church). The Pope’s selection of former San Francisco Archbishop Leveda as the his replacement as new Prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is an indication that he wants someone intimately informed on the problem in the American Church.
As I have become more involved in catechesis at our parish by being involved in RCIA, teaching CCD to five Freshman boys in my home, and being on the board of our dioceses Ignatius retreat center, I’ve come to appreciate that so much of the problem is poor catechesis. For the faithful (even those who are well-intentioned but misinformed) to fully understand and support the changes that I think we both advocate, the change has to be accompanied with catechesis and not just executive fiat from Rome.
As I said above I teach CCD in my home. About half of the boys live in homes that are nominally Catholic such that my efforts at CCD are not reinforced in the home. Father has counseled me to always approach this tenderly and pastorally. He tells me to not focus on what is “wrong” but to focus on what is good. While not watering down the Faith, he urges me to focus on instilling in them an awareness that God is longing for them as the father of the Prodigal Son longed for his son until his return. If they sense this longing, the Holy Spirit can then more easily do His work. He is emphatic that any indication of hardness or rigidity in my heart will be counter-productive. They have to always see and feel the tender heart of Jesus in everything I say. Otherwise, I’ll drive them away and that is not my mission.
My point is that we have to prayerfully support our Bishops and Pope as they take on this difficult issue. The abuses and misunderstandings were not created in a day adn their resolution will not happen overnight. More importantly, I will trust that Holy Spirit is guiding the Bishops and Pope on both the process, actions, and timeframe. And I will trust that if they have to resort to acts of discipline and sanction, it will be done after extra-ordinary efforts to effect the change pastorally and with a conversion of heart of the leadership. This is how Jesus works with each one of us as individuals. Why should it be any diffent with these universities led by imperfect individuals?
Regarding your comment that theology isn’t required at Catholic Universities is not correct if the experience of my daughter and myself is any indication. She is a h.s. senior and we are exploring Catholic University of America in D.C., St. Ben’s and St. Thomas in Minnesota, and Creighton University in Nebraska. All of them require religion classes (more for the Catholics who recieve the Catholic discount). More importantly, I’ve been impressed with the overt Catholic Identity evident throughout campus.
I know there are exceptions. We considered St. Catherine’s in Minnesota but were warned that this campus was considered one of hte colleges under review by the Archbishop of St. Paul. However, while we ruled it out for this daughter, I am comforted that the Archbishop is in the process of addressing the issue. Who knows when my baby daughter is ready for college, maybe St. Cate’s will be an option.
D
december
Guest
My children are 10 and 7. My husband and I are not prepared to send them half way across country to attend an authentic Catholic University but we will if we must. We hope not.
A
Ani_Ibi
Guest
Gentle? We have literally bent over backwards being gentle with the clergy over the crisis of abortion. I would not say that their treatment of us was gentle or frankly even courteous. What worked ultimately? Leverage, media coverage, massive letterwriting, and references to the Family Compact.
Please explain the visible relationship of Ex Corde Ecclesia and the leadership of the Catholic colleges in light of your comment.
OK.
Do you think our experience of ‘support’ may be different?
And please understand the degree of sacrifice that was necessary to get the message through to the CCCB, USCCB, and the Vatican in the first place.
Yes.
It is a leadership issue. People will follow – or leave – given clear direction.
Procrastination to another bishop’s watch is not a solution. In fact it is another problem. If not our bishops then whose bishops? If not us then which of our children?
Meanwhile people are principals or deans in Catholic colleges who should not be. If you spare disciplining those who have wrongfully used their influence for their own gain, then you sacrifice the innocent.
Jesus overturned the moneychanger’s tables. Jesus told us that He came with a sword not with a kumbaya theology. This is not a question of imperfection, because we are all imperfect. It is a question of acquiescing to the spirit of confusion which is not of God.
Was that my comment? Or was my comment that theology may be offered or required at Catholic colleges?
It is the exceptions to which I refer.
And is that warning not the work of faith to which I am referring? What errors would you have walked into with your daughter in tow had it not been for that warning? Moreover, would you withhold that warning from a neighbour in the interest of … what … the appearance of charity? One of the works of charity is correction. Is it not?
O
oat_soda
Guest
i hear this a lot about not being too negative. but the 10 commandments were given to us as “thou shalt not” and not “thou shall”. so, God knows we’re weak and blinded by pride so that it is easier in our state to know what not to do first, then with reason attempt to unfold the truth which is the foundation of the commandments.
i think one problem we are facing today in our church is the lack of a sense of sin. you tell your kids to not touch the stove first and when they get more mature you can explain why to them. i think we should keep it simple and focus on what and what not to do.
while i agree that Jesus is with his church until the end, it doesn’t mean that they are always acting accordingly to God’s will. sin is sin and not part of growing up. when the church messes up, that isn’t God but our weak humanity. pray that they will be good priests and bishops. we’re primarily responsible for our children’s faith, not the bishop. there are plenty of bad bishops bad catholic schools, the wheat mixed with the chaffe. the usccb is on the whole a poor example of what it means to be catholic.
H
harinkj
Guest
The governing bodies of these institutions will probably review their status as Catholic universities and colleges. Many will become secular and others will remain Catholic with stricter rules.
As an example of a religious university going secular, my sister went to the Alaskan Methodist University in Anchorage Alaska in the sixites. It is part of the University of Alaska system now.
It would be interesting to see if any just drop the word “Catholic” from their name and have only informal Catholic connections. I wonder if they would even have to drop the word Catholic from their name. It is not copyrighted. They could just point out in their literature that they do not have any affiliation with the Roman Catholic Church.
As an example of a religious university going secular, my sister went to the Alaskan Methodist University in Anchorage Alaska in the sixites. It is part of the University of Alaska system now.
It would be interesting to see if any just drop the word “Catholic” from their name and have only informal Catholic connections. I wonder if they would even have to drop the word Catholic from their name. It is not copyrighted. They could just point out in their literature that they do not have any affiliation with the Roman Catholic Church.
- Kathie :bowdown:
A
Ani_Ibi
Guest
The Cardinal Newman Society has information on several American colleges who have had their Catholic affiliation removed.
O
Orionthehunter
Guest
The following is to which my comment: Please be gentle referenced:
And when I just request that you not cast stones at me you respond as follows:
I for one know that executive fiat doesn’t work when a Pastor is trying to change people’s hearts and I question whether it will be effective in this case. Pope Benedict is providing good leadership by example and how he communicates. We need to adopt and support his example and efforts.
You and I have two different tactics to correct a bad situation. You want someone to rule with executive fiat to immediately impose change. I propose that the Bishops utilize their teaching authority to change people’s hearts. It is primarily their teaching authority through which the Holy Spirit works. If you look at all the mistakes of the Church during history, they have their roots when the Church didn’t use their Holy Spirit inspired teaching authority to address issues but used executive fiat (which is much more dependent on the charisma and leadership skills grounded in the Pope’s or Bishop’s human nature). A basic study of the issues that led to the reformation (or deformation as I like to call it) are grounded in leadership using its executive power and not teaching authority.
Your comment that they will either change or leave is indicative of your approach. I weep for the reality that we have so many separated breathren. I’m not going to advocate action that seems to accept and increase in such separation. I for one do not consider it a success that we had to kick colleges out of the “Catholic family”. Separation is not our goal. Unity is. We have the Truth so we should be focusing on bringing people home. Ex-communication should be the last resort and not the first resort.
I’m still wondering what this has to do with the debate at hand. Are you asserting that I’m soft on abortion? Are you asserting that I have to adopt your attitude since I wasn’t aborted? I’m confused but regardless it has a tone that is disrespectful. We might have a disagreement in tactics but please don’t accuse me of being one who condones or supports these problems.
And when I just request that you not cast stones at me you respond as follows:
You seem to take alot of credit for these changes. I for one don’t find that these efforts have been very effective. They have been divisive. These unfortunate problems we face are the fruit of well-intentioned people in leadership (primarly Bishops and Priests who believed these changes would lead people to Christ) making mistakes. But the corrections will become accepted first because people assent to the authority of our Pope, Bishops and Priests. When advocates of the proper reversion to better liturgy or conformance to the Universal Truth entrusted to the Magisterium use tactics of defiance, they don’t set a good example. Some of the changes that I deplore were forced on us by “executive fiat” and we know they weren’t well-recieved. Why do we think we can resort to the same ineffective tactics and get better results?
I for one know that executive fiat doesn’t work when a Pastor is trying to change people’s hearts and I question whether it will be effective in this case. Pope Benedict is providing good leadership by example and how he communicates. We need to adopt and support his example and efforts.
You and I have two different tactics to correct a bad situation. You want someone to rule with executive fiat to immediately impose change. I propose that the Bishops utilize their teaching authority to change people’s hearts. It is primarily their teaching authority through which the Holy Spirit works. If you look at all the mistakes of the Church during history, they have their roots when the Church didn’t use their Holy Spirit inspired teaching authority to address issues but used executive fiat (which is much more dependent on the charisma and leadership skills grounded in the Pope’s or Bishop’s human nature). A basic study of the issues that led to the reformation (or deformation as I like to call it) are grounded in leadership using its executive power and not teaching authority.
Your comment that they will either change or leave is indicative of your approach. I weep for the reality that we have so many separated breathren. I’m not going to advocate action that seems to accept and increase in such separation. I for one do not consider it a success that we had to kick colleges out of the “Catholic family”. Separation is not our goal. Unity is. We have the Truth so we should be focusing on bringing people home. Ex-communication should be the last resort and not the first resort.
N
Nohome
Guest
Ani Ibi:
In any case, I do not see this pruning as a bad thing. Schools across the country will have to pause and decide just how important affiliation with the Catholic Church is to their mission. Rome may be surprised to see how many choose to part ways.
Nohome
I wouldn’t say that all these schools had their Catholic affiliation removed, in many cases it is that they chose to drop it. There have been a number of cases where the board of trustees have decided that a school can nolonger meet their academic mission and the restrictions placed upon them by the Catholic Church. Sadly, some schools dropped affiliation to increase attendance by those who are not Catholic.
In any case, I do not see this pruning as a bad thing. Schools across the country will have to pause and decide just how important affiliation with the Catholic Church is to their mission. Rome may be surprised to see how many choose to part ways.
Nohome
D
domer2x
Guest
I am a Notre Dame alum. I would like to inform the group of some exciting happenings in the Fort Wayne - South Bend Diocese.
Redeemer Radio is a non-profit organization of lay Catholics based in Fort Wayne. Redeemer Radio recently completed a purchase agreement for WLYV 1450 AM radio in Fort Wayne, Indiana. The station plans to be broadcasting Catholic programming in January 2006. Our latest press release is available at www.RedeemerRadio.com
Redeemer Radio is a response to John Paul II’s call for a “New Evangelization.” Our goal is to soon be able to provide Catholic programming to all of the Fort Wayne-South Bend Diocese. We are working agressively to acquire an additional station in the South Bend-Notre Dame-Michiana area.
In a 1997 address to the Catholic Media Association John Paul II stated, “Radio offers perhaps the closest equivalent to what Jesus was able to do with large groups through his preaching. Radio is an intimate medium which can reach people on the street, in their cars or in their homes. Radio may well be the most cost effective means of reaching large numbers of people who may not want to read or may lack exposure to Catholic publications, but will be willing to ‘evesdrop’ on Catholic radio stations.” Since that date – Catholic Radio has experienced exponential growth from seven US stations to over one hundred today and has been the driving force behind a multitude of conversions and reversions to the faith.
John Paul II’s Apostolic Letter “The Rapid Development” released in February of this year calls the entire Church to a pastoral and cultural “revision” of its presence in and attitude toward the media. The Pope said that ecclesial dynamism in the world depends on this revision. The media, he observed, can be used “to proclaim the Gospel or to reduce it to silence within men’s hearts.” Its themes recall those of the Second Vatican Council decree “Inter Mirifica.”
The rapid growth of Catholic Radio is illustrated by the EWTN Catholic Radio network which includes 80 affiliate stations across the US and the largest privately-owned shortwave station in the world (www.EWTN.com/radio). The Relevant Radio Catholic network (www.RelevantRadio.com) broadcasts Catholic programming on 26 stations.
The growing ranks of Catholic broadcasters also include stations such as KBVM which is an independently-owned Catholic station located on the campus of Holy Cross-operated University of Portland (www.kbvm.com).
During my time at Notre Dame I was involved in the ND-owned classical music station WSND-FM. I believe that Our Lady’s University should in some way be home to Catholic radio in Michiana.
Keep us in your prayers.
Thanks!
Redeemer Radio is a non-profit organization of lay Catholics based in Fort Wayne. Redeemer Radio recently completed a purchase agreement for WLYV 1450 AM radio in Fort Wayne, Indiana. The station plans to be broadcasting Catholic programming in January 2006. Our latest press release is available at www.RedeemerRadio.com
Redeemer Radio is a response to John Paul II’s call for a “New Evangelization.” Our goal is to soon be able to provide Catholic programming to all of the Fort Wayne-South Bend Diocese. We are working agressively to acquire an additional station in the South Bend-Notre Dame-Michiana area.
In a 1997 address to the Catholic Media Association John Paul II stated, “Radio offers perhaps the closest equivalent to what Jesus was able to do with large groups through his preaching. Radio is an intimate medium which can reach people on the street, in their cars or in their homes. Radio may well be the most cost effective means of reaching large numbers of people who may not want to read or may lack exposure to Catholic publications, but will be willing to ‘evesdrop’ on Catholic radio stations.” Since that date – Catholic Radio has experienced exponential growth from seven US stations to over one hundred today and has been the driving force behind a multitude of conversions and reversions to the faith.
John Paul II’s Apostolic Letter “The Rapid Development” released in February of this year calls the entire Church to a pastoral and cultural “revision” of its presence in and attitude toward the media. The Pope said that ecclesial dynamism in the world depends on this revision. The media, he observed, can be used “to proclaim the Gospel or to reduce it to silence within men’s hearts.” Its themes recall those of the Second Vatican Council decree “Inter Mirifica.”
The rapid growth of Catholic Radio is illustrated by the EWTN Catholic Radio network which includes 80 affiliate stations across the US and the largest privately-owned shortwave station in the world (www.EWTN.com/radio). The Relevant Radio Catholic network (www.RelevantRadio.com) broadcasts Catholic programming on 26 stations.
The growing ranks of Catholic broadcasters also include stations such as KBVM which is an independently-owned Catholic station located on the campus of Holy Cross-operated University of Portland (www.kbvm.com).
During my time at Notre Dame I was involved in the ND-owned classical music station WSND-FM. I believe that Our Lady’s University should in some way be home to Catholic radio in Michiana.
Keep us in your prayers.
Thanks!
C
Catholic29
Guest
If only “Our Lady’s University” would promote the same morality and purity Our Lady so well lived out in her earthly life.
But maybe a local Catholic radio station committed to the teachings of Scripture and the Magisterium would have an effect on the student body there, and particularly the administration along with a certain professor in the theology department.
One can only hope and pray…
- Status