Vatican officially makes an announcement.

[StevenFrancis]

Not true. JPII asked the bishops for a “wide and generous” application of the 1962 Missal. However, it wouldn’t hurt to reinforce the directive.

Sorry to all if I mis-spoke. I readily admit I don’t know the entire Church stance on this, and my post should not have been so hasty, nor expressed as policy. I’m sometimes a little quick on the ‘enter’ key. I do know that here in my city, there is only one church offering it, and they are not acknowledged by our diocese. This could be different in other places.

Can you point me to the JPII documents? There are so many at the Vatican website, and I’m working my way through them slowly but surely.

On reflection, I should have said that, in my limited experience, in my singular diocese, I know that the release of this document by the Pope, (when it is actually released), could be of great and valuable assistance to those of us in this Catholic community who are interested in at least experiencing, or having an option to experience such a Mass. Right now, loyal parishoners at any parish in our city, would feel disloyal to the Church if we attended the one church offering the Tridentine, pre-1962 missal Mass in OUR city, as they are not an acknowledged Church within our diocese, or under our Bishop, even though they are within the physical boundaries of what should be their diocese as well.

Roman Catholic Churches of the Latin Rite, who are loyal and accepting of the current papacy, and are within the authority of our Bishop, will now be able, IF they choose to…to offer us a Tridentine Mass, even under our current episcopal political environment.

I hope this is a correct statement. Hopefully people will be welcoming of the Holy Father’s suggestion, if and when it is issued. Just for the hope it brings that one or two of the local RCC parishes in our diocese, might now consider adding this type of mass, if only periodically, as a choice to parishoners, wihout guilt.

Peace to all,

Steven

 

[StevenFrancis]

---

From where did you get that idea.

From LOCAL conversations. Please disregard, and see my later post. Or, as an option, disregard altogether. I am not fully educated on this subject, and did not intend to make my post sound as if I were. On the face of things, it seems that the non-mandatory endorsement of Tridentine Mass would make nearly every faction happy. This is apparently not the case.

I strike my posts on this thread, (though I don’t see an option to do that).

Chalking it up to experience in Forum talk. In the future I intend to read an be familiar with all applicable papal documents when commenting on papal matters.

Peace be with you all,

Steven

 

[Walking_Home]

From LOCAL conversations. Please disregard, and see my later post. Or, as an option, disregard altogether. I am not fully educated on this subject, and did not intend to make my post sound as if I were. On the face of things, it seems that the non-mandatory endorsement of Tridentine Mass would make nearly every faction happy. This is apparently not the case.

I strike my posts on this thread, (though I don’t see an option to do that).

Chalking it up to experience in Forum talk. In the future I intend to read an be familiar with all applicable papal documents when commenting on papal matters.

Peace be with you all,

Steven

---

No problem StevenFrancis—I had read your reply to BobP123

 

[BobP123]

Sorry to all if I mis-spoke. I readily admit I don’t know the entire Church stance on this, and my post should not have been so hasty, nor expressed as policy.

Not a problem. We are all here to learn.

To all those Catholic faithful who feel attached to some previous liturgical and disciplinary forms of the Latin tradition, I wish to manifest my will to facilitate their ecclesial communion by means of the necessary measures to guarantee respect for their aspirations. In this matter I ask for the support of the bishops and of all those engaged in the pastoral ministry in the Church.

1. Taking account of the importance and complexity of the problems referred to in this document, by virtue of my Apostolic Authority I decree the following:
   …
   c) moreover, respect must everywhere be shown for the feelings of all those who are attached to the Latin liturgical tradition, by a wide and generous application of the directives already issued some time ago by the Apostolic See, for the use of the Roman Missal according to the typical edition of 1962 [9].

…

Given at Rome, at St. Peter’s, July 2, 1988, in the tenth year of Our Pontificate.
(signed John Paul II)

 

[Walking_Home]

Now —it is on Zenit.

zenit.org/english/

Tridentine Mass Document Coming Soon

VATICAN CITY, JUNE 4, 2007 (Zenit.org).- Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone says the waiting is nearly over for the much-discussed papal document that will reportedly liberalize the use of the Tridentine Mass.

The Vatican secretary of state said this in an interview with the Catholic newspaper Avvenire on Sunday.

“I believe that we will not have to wait much longer for its publication,” Cardinal Bertone said. “The Pope is personally interested in seeing this happen. He will explain it in an accompanying letter, hoping for a serene reception.”

 

[orgel_maestro]

O wow! I am both chinese and a traditional catholic. I pray for both. I cannot wait to see the day Chinese catholics can worship without government interference and persecution. I bet it’ll come out on this sunday, Corpus Christi! what better date? Holy Mass is about Christ’s ultimate sacrifice, a day many parishes have processions and devotion to the blessed sacrament. We are celebrating and honoring specifically the Holy Eucharist no? Whut better way to celebrate than to have a religious procession with Jesus in the monstrance! =) oo, im getting more and more excited by the minute.

 

[Icarus210]

Well I still think the Vatican will say that the SSPX Mass is still “unlawful”, as we dont use the new missal (Hey! any excuse). The only reason they are doing it is because we are growing so much, and they have to “counteract” the movement, as they now know we wont go away. The use of the Traditional Mass wasnt the reason Bishop Lefevre was unlawfully excommunicated. Just my thoughts, and I pray to God I am wrong.

Iccy

Tradition means passing on the true faith untill the end of time.

 

[orgel_maestro]

Well I still think the Vatican will say that the SSPX Mass is still “unlawful”, as we dont use the new missal (Hey! any excuse). The only reason they are doing it is because we are growing so much, and they have to “counteract” the movement, as they now know we wont go away. The use of the Traditional Mass wasnt the reason Bishop Lefevre was unlawfully excommunicated. Just my thoughts, and I pray to God I am wrong.

Iccy

Tradition means passing on the true faith untill the end of time.

I thought he was excommunicated for having ordaining bishops without vatican approval. I think a year or two from now, the number of SSPX priests n seminarians as well as SSPX parishioners n entire parishes will start coming back over. Heck, who knows, if most of the SSPX clergy agree, they may just become another apostolic society or w/e its called, just like the FSSP or the ICRSS.

I must add, after reading the news article, I have nothing but great joy, I’m so happy with our Holy Father, Im glad he is steering the Church or at least trying to steer us back to more traditional/orthodox theology (not in the sense of eastern orthodox, as in the sense of not liberal theology) end of the spectrum. And, I’m definitly glad that abortion is one of his top agendas, I think if there are church tribunals and we excommunicate abortion supporting politicians like Pelosi publically, it’ll draw more attention to the situtation. But, I’m getting off topic.

 

[DaveBj]

Heh I saw this heading and thought they’d announced the press conference or something. Go to see, it was just his Eminence…

How does “not long” in Vaticanspeak translate into ordinary time period?

1 day = 1000 years.

1000 years = 1 day.

Ref my post on liturgical changes being like elephants making love.

 

[AMDG1]

Tempting though it may be, let’s not get over-exuberant. If and when the MP is issued it will take time for the USCCB to figure out how to implement and my hunch (just a wild guess): that will take some time. So don’t anyone get your hopes up that TLM masses will spring up at a local parish near you for quite some time.

Personally, I doubt a MP is coming on the TLM. I suspect that what we got back in March (?) is all we’re going to get. But, maybe/hopefully I’m wrong…

 

[BobP123]

Personally, I doubt a MP is coming on the TLM. I suspect that what we got back in March (?) is all we’re going to get. But, maybe/hopefully I’m wrong…

After hearing the developments regarding the Popemobile today, we seem to need that M.P. sooner rather than later.

 

[mchium]

What does everyone think of the real impact of this given the sad fact that the overwhelming majority of priests ordained in the past 30+ years have not learned Latin?

The TLM can only be as prolific as the priests who are able to say it…
or am I missing something…

 

[BobP123]

What does everyone think of the real impact of this given the sad fact that the overwhelming majority of priests ordained in the past 30+ years have not learned Latin?

Missed opportunity?

 

[mary_bobo]

Why would anyone be unhappy about it? It is my understanding that it is not a mandate, but rather an allowance. Right now, the Vatican does not endorse or approve of the Tridentine Latin Mass, so when you go, it’s being disobedient to the Church.

Are you sure of this? There is a church in my area that has a TLM twice a month with the blessing of our bishop.
Once this is issued, you would no longer be disobedient. Your choices will grow. You will be able to find and attend Latin masses more easily if you’re a traditionalist, and do so without guilt or disobedience, and if you like things the way they are, then you’ve still got that. Nobody is taking it away.

Sounds like win - win to me.

Peace to all,

Steven

 

[StevenFrancis]

mary_bobo:
I’m not sure about this at all on a National basis, as it turns out. I’m pretty certain about my diocese. We do have one, but to my knowledge they do NOT have the Bishops’ blessing, and don’t link to any or the diocese websites, ore even get dicussed. I’m finding out, things are different all over the place.

Anyway…thanks,

and Peace,

Steven

 

[Walking_Home]

I’m not sure about this at all on a National basis, as it turns out. I’m pretty certain about my diocese. We do have one, but to my knowledge they do NOT have the Bishops’ blessing, and don’t link to any or the diocese websites, ore even get dicussed. I’m finding out, things are different all over the place.

Anyway…thanks,

and Peace,

Steven

---

Yes—things are different all over the place.
Our late Pope wanted a wide and generous application of the TLM–yet it did not happen.

 

[Franze]

When the MP happened, I am a bit sceptical, I am waiting since many time ago, i see like a bright future for the church, because in the present situation, the changes wouldn´t be spectacular.

 

[Miserere_Mei]

The Tridentine Mass can never be abrogated nor has it been. THose who say it even without the permission of their Bishop do not sin, for the Bishop doesn’t HAVE authority to mandate this. Unjust laws are no laws.

 

[stmaria]

What does everyone think of the real impact of this given the sad fact that the overwhelming majority of priests ordained in the past 30+ years have not learned Latin?

The TLM can only be as prolific as the priests who are able to say it…
or am I missing something…

Only SSPX and FSSP and the other society of priests that currently say the Traditional Mass are qualified to say it properly. There is no way tha a priest trained in the Novus Ordo will be able to say the TLM without going thru an extensive training program of at least a year or more. First he will have to learn Latin.

The Traditional Mass is unique. Every gesture of the priest means something. Having unqualified Novus Ordo priests saying the TLM would be a disaster. Unintentional abuses would occur. And lets not forget the altar boys{no girls}.They too must learn Latin and all the other duties required of them.

And what about the altars? Are they going to wheel them in with the Tabernacle? Are they going to have communion rails? No standing for communion at the TLM. Are the choirs going to sing in Latin? No guitars or drums allowed!!

This cannot be done overnight if at all.

 

[orgel_maestro]

Only SSPX and FSSP and the other society of priests that currently say the Traditional Mass are qualified to say it properly. There is no way tha a priest trained in the Novus Ordo will be able to say the TLM without going thru an extensive training program of at least a year or more. First he will have to learn Latin.

The Traditional Mass is unique. Every gesture of the priest means something. Having unqualified Novus Ordo priests saying the TLM would be a disaster. Unintentional abuses would occur. And lets not forget the altar boys{no girls}.They too must learn Latin and all the other duties required of them.

And what about the altars? Are they going to wheel them in with the Tabernacle? Are they going to have communion rails? No standing for communion at the TLM. Are the choirs going to sing in Latin? No guitars or drums allowed!!

This cannot be done overnight if at all.

ah, all these things u describe r things I hope n pray will be the norm in all parishes by 2050