Vatican overturns Chaldean Patriarch's suspension of priests who fled Islamic State

[Seraphim73]

The Vatican has overturned a ruling by Chaldean Catholic Patriarch Louis Raphael I Sako, lifting the suspension of Chaldean priests who fled Iraq after the Islamic State came to power.

The Chaldean Patriarch had ordered all of his priests to return to their parishes, unless they had received explicit permission to leave…

What was that about the rights and dignity of the Eastern Catholic Churches?

 

[malphono]

Good observation. :tiphat:

 

[oldcatholicguy]

What was that about the rights and dignity of the Eastern Catholic Churches?

I apologize in advance for any offense my ignorance may cause, but is the Holy Father the Patriarch’s religious superior, and if so, is it within his role as his superior for the Holy Father to make such a decision; and (sorry, long question) if both of these are true is it customary for decisions like this to be made?

 

[phil19034]

I apologize in advance for any offense my ignorance may cause, but is the Holy Father the Patriarch’s religious superior, and if so, is it within his role as his superior for the Holy Father to make such a decision; and (sorry, long question) if both of these are true is it customary for decisions like this to be made?

yes.

But more importantly, Pope Francis is about making a “kinder and gentler Church.” How can we be seen as “kinder and gentler” if priests are suspended for fleeing death?

We all honor the martyrs and sticking around to be a martyr is noble. But the Church should not force priests to become martyrs… that should be their own choice.

God Bless.

 

[phil19034]

What was that about the rights and dignity of the Eastern Catholic Churches?

Seraphim - could you please post where you received this quote so we can read the whole story?

Thank you

 

[GaryTaylor]

Chaldean Catholics in San Diego, California, appealed to the Vatican, and won a ruling in favor of Father Noel Gorgis, who is now serving in a parish there. The ruling allowed Father Gorgis to remain in California and continue his priestly ministry.

The same ruling applies to other Chaldean priests who faced suspension because of the Patriarch’s order.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.catholicculture.org%2Fnews%2Fheadlines%2Findex.cfm%3Fstoryid%3D23705&ei=hl61VI6CI8apgwTki4PACA&usg=AFQjCNGp3y1TQ2L8LGJmHkBMw6k9GV8TbQ

Patriarch Louis Raphael I Sako set a deadline of October 22 for priests who have left their posts to speak with their bishops and arrange either a return to their parishes or an approved transfer.

 

[Andre1000]

What was that about the rights and dignity of the Eastern Catholic Churches?

Nothing, because: Pope = omnipotent God
Everything he does is perfect.
He can change every rule.
He can change every teaching.
He can turn the liturgy into a joke and this is perfect.

This was sarcasm, but the current situation in the roman catholic Church.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Nothing, because: Pope = omnipotent God
Everything he does is perfect.
He can change every rule.
He can change every teaching.
He can turn the liturgy into a joke and this is perfect.

This was sarcasm, but the current situation in the roman catholic Church.

This is so far off base, and quite frankly, rude, insulting and stupid, that I don’t know where to start.

Pope Francis hasn’t changed anything about the teaching or working of the Church, so I don’t know where you get the idea that you can waltz in here and flippantly insult him, sarcasm or not. We are required to honor Pope Francis as the head of Christ’s Church on Earth, you are certainly not doing so with your post. You may dislike his style, the way he talks, or the decisions he makes regarding issues such as this, but his is still your Pope!

 

[10gr8kids]

Nothing, because: Pope = omnipotent God
Everything he does is perfect.
He can change every rule.
He can change every teaching.
He can turn the liturgy into a joke and this is perfect.

This was sarcasm, but the current situation in the roman catholic Church.

When I read posts like this, I can’t help but think about what happened to Miriam when she mouthed off about Moses.

Numbers 12:8-10
With him I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles; he sees the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?" The anger of the LORD burned against them, and he left them. When the cloud lifted from above the tent, Miriam’s skin was leprous --it became as white as snow

 

[oldcatholicguy]

yes.

But more importantly, Pope Francis is about making a “kinder and gentler Church.” How can we be seen as “kinder and gentler” if priests are suspended for fleeing death?

We all honor the martyrs and sticking around to be a martyr is noble. But the Church should not force priests to become martyrs… that should be their own choice.

God Bless.

Well if the answers to all my questions are yes then I don’t see how any of us can complain given the assumption we must have that the Patriarch (who has rightly demanded obedience from his religious subordinates and is himself a subordinate of the Holy Father) will support the Holy Father’s decision.

Edit- While I still support the Patriarch’s initial actions (suspension if they don’t go back), your last comment helps me better understand why people objected to him utilizing his authority as their religious superior.

 

[Andre1000]

This is so far off base, and quite frankly, rude, insulting and stupid, that I don’t know where to start.

Pope Francis hasn’t changed anything about the teaching or working of the Church, so I don’t know where you get the idea that you can waltz in here and flippantly insult him, sarcasm or not. We are required to honor Pope Francis as the head of Christ’s Church on Earth, you are certainly not doing so with your post. You may dislike his style, the way he talks, or the decisions he makes regarding issues such as this, but his is still your Pope!

I did not say that the pope did this, and especially I did not say that pope Franciscus did this. But in the last centuries, the popes turned into some kind of god in the church.

 

[Andre1000]

When I read posts like this, I can’t help but think about what happened to Miriam when she mouthed off about Moses.

Numbers 12:8-10
With him I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles; he sees the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?" The anger of the LORD burned against them, and he left them. When the cloud lifted from above the tent, Miriam’s skin was leprous --it became as white as snow

Good point. I am sorry now.

 

[Corki]

I apologize in advance for any offense my ignorance may cause, but is the Holy Father the Patriarch’s religious superior, and if so, is it within his role as his superior for the Holy Father to make such a decision; and (sorry, long question) if both of these are true is it customary for decisions like this to be made?

I don’t think the Pope is considered the Patriarch’s religious superior. I think it is a matter of process. Disciplinary actions in the Church generally include a right to appeal. In this case, the appeal is made to the Vatican.

 

[Joan_M]

There is nothing wrong with people, even priests and bishops, too, fleeing a situation such as those priests fled. We do not have to stay in a place where we may well be martyred. We can run away. So, too can the people of the place - many, many of them have also fled.

I’m sure that their superior would have liked the priest to stay, and it would have been heroic if they did, but he was wrong to suspend them.

I’m very happy that the Vatican has overturned this suspension.

 

[agnes_therese]

Nothing, because: Pope = omnipotent God
Everything he does is perfect.
He can change every rule.
He can change every teaching.
He can turn the liturgy into a joke and this is perfect.

This was sarcasm, but the current situation in the roman catholic Church.

Wow, what a complete misrepresentation of our Church and our Pope.

 

[Jon_S_1]

What was that about the rights and dignity of the Eastern Catholic Churches?

Well, it was appealed to Rome and he was asked to make a determination on the matter.

Did you read all the statements regarding the appeal, that you know the Archbishop did not make an error in judgement?

 

[Timothysis]

“The Chaldean Patriarch had ordered all of his priests to return to their parishes, unless they had received explicit permission to leave…”

I’m sorry but that’s just crazy. Who in their right mind would order anyone to return to a situation where the prospects of being tortured and murdered are near certain? I understand that those members of the flock that remained need consideration but when anarchy developes then all rules are off. How much blood would the patriarch have on his hands if his priests returned only to be murdered?

 

[jinglebelle]

chill children,this is just an example of the different mindsets between american and european catholics

 

[twf]

What was that about the rights and dignity of the Eastern Catholic Churches?

If the Pope of Rome had barged in I would agree. That was not the case. As I understand the situation, the Chaldean bishop in the US appealed to Rome on behalf of these priests. Would you deprive the Chaldean bishop a privilege the bishops of the ancient Church had prior to the Great Schism? Rome barging in would be an abuse of papal primacy, but the canons and practice of the ancient undivided Church always supported the right to APPEAL to Rome (or any higher authority).

 

[twf]

Good observation. :tiphat:

I ask you the same question I asked Seraphim. I fully agree that Rome has barged in, in times past, when it shouldn’t have and that Rome needs to allow the Eastern Churches to govern their own affairs. That being said, will we now deprive Eastern Catholics of the ancient right to appeal to Rome? The practice of appealing to Rome is not some modern novelty. If papal primacy cannot be exercised even in the case of an appeal, then it is definitively nothing more than the primacy of honor espoused by some Orthodox.