Vatican: Pius X Society Ordinations Are Illegitimate

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congratulations to those who dearly wish to grow in their love for Christ. May the Holy Spirit work in them and bring them to the foot of the Cross.
Glory be to God, Amen!
 
One thing I’ll give the SSPX… they have their heads screwed on tight when it comes to fashion. Long live the fiddleback!
 
Woo-Hoo! Ordinations are always a cause for celebration.

Silly question: Their ordinations are considered valid right?
 
Te_Deum said:
Yes. Though I do not know whether they are licit or not.
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I believe they are immediately suspended. They have no ministry in the Church.

Following the links I did find that SSPX is building a seminary in rural Virginia outside Charlottesville. Interesting.
 
PaulinVA said:
I believe they are immediately suspended. They have no ministry in the Church.
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Yes. But was the act of ordination its self illegal?
Following the links I did find that SSPX is building a seminary in rural Virginia outside Charlottesville. Interesting.
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We need more traditional seminaries in the British Isles. You lot get everything :p.
 
PaulinVA said:
Following the links I did find that SSPX is building a seminary in rural Virginia outside Charlottesville. Interesting.
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Right. These ordination pictures are from the SSPX seminary in Winona, Minnesota, which is full far beyond capacity. Some seminarians have to sleep three-to-a-room, in what are supposed to be single-occupancy dorms.

The seminary in Virginia is being built to replace the Winona seminary, and will be large enough to accomodate the current numbers comfortably plus have room for future enlargement.
 
Code: 
 I replied that I was a Christian, and pravoslavny. "Pravoslavny, indeed," said he with a laugh. " You people are pravoslavny only in word - in act you are heathen. I know all about your religion, brother. A learned priest once tempted me and I tried it. I joined your church and stayed in it for six months. After that I came back to the ways of our society. To join your church is just a snare. The readers mumble the service all anyhow, with things missed out and things you can't understand. And the singing is no better than you hear in a pub. And the people stand all in a huddle, men and women all mixed up; they talk while the service is going on, turn round and stare about, walk to and fro, and give you no peace and quiet to say your prayers. What sort of worship do you call that? It's just a sin! Now, with us how devout the service is. You can hear what's said, nothing is missed out, the singing is most moving, and the people stand quietly, the men by themselves, the women by themselves, and everybody knows what reverence to make and when, as holy church directs. Really and truly, when you come into a church of ours, you feel to have come to the worship of God; but in one of yours you can't imagine what you've come to - church or to market!"
 From all this I saw that the old man was a diehard raskolnik. But he spoke so plausibly, I could not argue with him nor convert him. I just thought to myself that it will be impossible to cnovert the old believers to the true church until church services are put right among us and until the clergy in particular set an example in this. The raskolnik knows nothing about the inner life; he relies about externals, and it is about them that we are careless.
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This quote from the Way of a Pilgrim always makes me think of the more diehard SSPXers and the sedevacantists.

The liturgy looks very beautiful. I’ve been to an FSSP church. Beautiful liturgy - and it was a low Mass. Our churches do need to be put right - but it doesn’t justify separating oneself from the true church.
 
PaulinVA said:
I believe they are immediately suspended. They have no ministry in the Church.

Following the links I did find that SSPX is building a seminary in rural Virginia outside Charlottesville. Interesting.
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Yep. in the mean time we have gay parade and homosexual activities being allowed in the Church, while holy men are scorned. go figure.
 
Beautiful greenery as background too. It’s interesting to see photos of the Roman tonsure. I haven’t seen it yet in real life! The vestments are absolutely stunning.
 
Te_Deum said:
Yes. But was the act of ordination its self illegal?
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If illicit equals illegal, then, yes, they appear to be illegal. Those ordained are validly ordained, but the ordination was illicit and some say schismatic.

It is interesting that Rome continues to look the other way as all of this happens. Other than denying the Holocaust, I’m not sure what members of SSPX have to do to be censured. Over the years they have performed what Rome calls “schismatic acts” but are never declared to be formally in schism. A neat trick. I wonder how many acts make a schism?
 
WetCatechumen said:
This quote from the Way of a Pilgrim always makes me think of the more diehard SSPXers and the sedevacantists.
The liturgy looks very beautiful. I’ve been to an FSSP church. Beautiful liturgy - and it was a low Mass. Our churches do need to be put right - but it doesn’t justify separating oneself from the true church.
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That is a good quote! Just to clarify, **FSSP **(Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter) is a bonafide, solid, Catholic religious order of priests. In fact, the group was established by Pope John Paul himself!

They might at a superficial glance due to the “traditional” nature seem like they are another version of those wacky SSPX’ers. But the two groups could not be farther apart.

The Excommunications were lifted only a few years ago on SSPX, but they still refuse to enter full communion with the Church and are quite defiant and unreasonable about it.

So I don’t know the status of these **ordinations **? I don’t see how they can be considered Catholic priests…? If the excomm’s on the bishops were removed, then the bishops can ordain, but if they themselves are not in union…?

Maybe someone with more expertise can clarify this precisely. I stopped following this closely a year or so back when I just got fed up with the SSPX who seem to believe they are a superior “church” to the Catholic Church and Pope Benedict should come crawling to them, not the other way around.
 
wisdomseeker said:
Yep. in the mean time we have gay parade and homosexual activities being allowed in the Church, while holy men are scorned. go figure.
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Who is scorning whom? You mean SSPX?!? No, they have scorned us. The door is open, as the Holy Father has made clear. The SSPX can join the Catholic Church anytime.
 
Lady_Marchmain said:
Who is scorning whom? You mean SSPX?!? No, they have scorned us. The door is open, as the Holy Father has made clear. The SSPX can join the Catholic Church anytime.
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There is nothing to join. The SSPX are Catholic priests. There is no doubt about that.
 
PaulinVA said:
If illicit equals illegal, then, yes, they appear to be illegal. Those ordained are validly ordained, but the ordination was illicit and some say schismatic.
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By illegal I mean illicit yes.
It is interesting that Rome continues to look the other way as all of this happens. Other than denying the Holocaust, I’m not sure what members of SSPX have to do to be censured. Over the years they have performed what Rome calls “schismatic acts” but are never declared to be formally in schism. A neat trick. I wonder how many acts make a schism?
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The Holy Father obviously wants them to be regularised and is using a very honeyed method. Personally I’d have made it known in no uncertain terms that the SSPX have removed themselves from the Catholic Church. But even if they are not “legally” in schism (which is true, Rome says they are in full communion…) they certainly are in schism in their hearts.

But lets be honest… if Rome is doing mental gymnastics it’s nothing on what the SSPX and their supporters do.
 
Will_S said:
There is nothing to join. The SSPX are Catholic priests. There is no doubt about that.
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Catholic priests who are unfortunately suspended from exercising their priestly functions and thus have no jurisdiction to hear valid confessions or validly witness marriages.

Furthermore, I would argue that SSPX priests who say Mass are committing grave sins of disobedience by celebrating the Sacrament, and thus those who participate at such Masses are encouraging such sin.

Pray that one day these priests will be fully reconciled with the Church. If such a day does occur, I foresee them becoming the major driving force behind Catholic renewal/restoration.
 
Te_Deum said:
But lets be honest… if Rome is doing mental gymnastics it’s nothing on what the SSPX and their supporters do.
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That’s my point. SSPX says they have supplied jurisdiction due to an emergency in the Church, which is a direct challenge to the present Magisterium. The Vatican say no, there is no emergency, therefore you have no jurisdiction, but still don’t suppress the SSPX or do anything to stop the Catholic faithful from “belonging” to the SSPX (I know it’s a priestly society).

The Vatican is sending mixed signals. We know exactly where the SSPX stands.
 
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