Vatican: Pius X Society Ordinations Are Illegitimate

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In order for a Sacrament to be valid, you need three parts – form, matter, and intention.

From Abp. Lefebvre to the SSPX today, the issue with the Novus Ordo Sacraments has never been about validity due to form (those who argue the NOM is invalid due to form are almost always sedevacantists) but about invalidity due to a lack of intention. If a priest says the Canon in the NO, is he consecrating the Holy Eucharist or reading a story since it is now a narrative?
The Church has accepted the Syriac Anaphora of Addai & Mari… which lacks the words of institution… as both valid and licit for it contains the institution narrative in the third person.

Validity of the Mass requires the institution narrative, not the words of institution, tho’ only one Anaphora of over 80 accepted as valid by the church lacks the words of institution. And all the Pauline anaphorae include the narrative with the words of institution.

And the narrative is present in the Trent Missal, and the Anaphorae of Sts John, Basil, and James…

rom the 1962 missal, as shown at sanctamissa.org/en/tutorial/ordo-missae-4.html
Qui prídie quam paterétur, accipit hostiam, accépit panem in sanctas ac venerábiles manus suas, elevat oculos ad cælum, et elevátis óculis in cælum ad te Deum Patrem suum omnipoténtem, caput inclinat, tibi grátias agens, signat super hostiam, bene díxit, fregit, dedítque discípulis suis, dicens: Accípite, et manducáte ex hoc omnes.

HOC EST ENIM CORPUS MEUM.

Símili modo póstquam cenátum est, ambabus manibus accipit calicem, accípiens et hunc præclárum cálicem in sanctas ac venerábiles manus suas: item caput inclinat, tibi grátias agens, sinistra tenens calicem, dextera signat super eum, bene díxit, dedítque discípulis suis, dicens: Accípite, et bíbite ex eo omnes.

HIC EST ENIM CALIX SÁNGUINIS MEI,
NOVI ET ÆTÉRNI TESTAMÉNTI: MYSTÉRIUM FIDEI:
QUI PRO VOBIS ET PRO MULTIS EFFUNDÉTUR
IN REMISSIÓNEM PECCATÓRUM.

Hæc quotiescúmque fecéritis, in mei memóriam faciétis.

the English translation provided:
Who, the day before He suffered, took bread into His Holy and venerable hands, and having lifted up His eyes to heaven, to Thee, God, His Almighty Father, giving thanks to Thee, blessed it +, broke it, and gave it to His disciples, saying: Take and eat ye all of this:

FOR THIS IS MY BODY.
Code:
In like manner, after He had supped, taking also into His holy and venerable hands this goodly chalice, again giving thanks to Thee, He blessed it , and gave it to His disciples, saying: Take and drink ye all of this:
FOR THIS IS THE CHALICE OF MY BLOOD,OF THE NEW AND ETERNAL TESTAMENT: THE MYSTERY OF FAITH: WHICH WILL BE SHED FOR YOU AND FOR MANY UNTO THE REMISSION OF SINS.

As often as ye shall do these things, ye shall do them in remembrance of me.

It tells the story… it’s just that the laity often do not hear it under the pre Vatican II praxis.

Its also pretty much the exact same mode as the anaphorae in the Pauline missal
 
The mixed signals are in the words and acts of the SSPX… who claim the Pope has no authority to suspend them nor excommunicate them, due to the “Crisis in the Church”… They claim no territorial jurisdiction, yet have set up a tribunal, grant apparent faculties (invalidly) to priests, install pastors in parishes and quasi-parishes, have opened parishes without the local ordinary’s permission, established additional affiliated religious communities without permission of the Ordinary of the diocese of the new motherhouse, and without papal permission… They are acting in some ways as a single large diocese… or a parallel church.

The Church is trying to bring them back to licit ministry. The SSPX are refusing the terms.

Sooner or later, they either will give in, or be declared in schism.
Well, the “mixed signals” you mention are really not mixed at all, and that is what I was alluding to. They have set up a full-featured church within the Church. Anything they need, the simply come up with some reason why the appropriate canons don’t apply in their case.

The mixed signals from the Vatican are that they have no ministry in the church, but the Vatican doesn’t stop the ordinations (creating more priests with no ministry within the Church) or tell the faithful to not “belong” to SSPX chapels. It’s like a parent who has given up on an unruly child.
 
Well, the “mixed signals” you mention are really not mixed at all, and that is what I was alluding to. They have set up a full-featured church within the Church. Anything they need, the simply come up with some reason why the appropriate canons don’t apply in their case.

The mixed signals from the Vatican are that they have no ministry in the church, but the Vatican doesn’t stop the ordinations (creating more priests with no ministry within the Church) or tell the faithful to not “belong” to SSPX chapels. It’s like a parent who has given up on an unruly child.
The bold is mine. I may have said this on this thread or another on the SSPX. My guess is that the Vatican is picking its battles, which is not the same as approval. If the Vatican can bring the SSPX into full communion with Rome, that is a much higher good than publicly sanctioning them for celebrating an illicit mass and sanctioning the faithful who attend. The sanction may backfire and delay or even dismantle any progress toward reunification. That’s only my guess.

Your analogy to the unruly child made me think of this. Before becoming a religious, I was a widower with two children, one of them a son. I remember my son’s hair made me cring. However, he also had very low self-esteem because of learning disabilities and was ready to give up in school. The higher good was to get him to graduate. As much as I did not like the hair (it was really bad), I focussed on getting him through school. Finally, three days before graduation I put my foot down on the hair. At that point it was safe to attack the hair. He was feeling successful. Prior to that, he may have simply siad “I can never do anything right. Everyone finds some fault in everything that I do.” We didn’t want to go there. When it was over, I jumped on the hair all he did was grown and complain. He showed up at graduation looking human again. I can live with a groan. 😃

You may be partially right. The Church is acting like a parent with a difficult child. She’s not given up, simply picks her battles carefully and in a sequential order according to priorities.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
In fact, there is one SSPX priest here who loves our brothers and takes quite a beating every time he visits us. I think he likes the debate. We have told him that he’ll end up leaving the SSPX and becoming a brother. I think he likes St. Francis more than he likes Archbishop Lefebvre. 😃
Fr. Isaac Mary Relyea, I hear, is starting a Franciscan friary. He had been with the Franciscans of the Immaculate but left in good standing to found a stricter observance called the “Franciscan Friars of Our Lady of Good Success”. If you haven’t heard his sermons and retreats, find some. He has some on AudioSancto. He’s both under the local bishop (“full communion”, as they say) and a solid Traditionalist both as regards the Mass and other issues. His conversion story has drawn many comparisons to Fr. Corapi (ignoring his present mess). God bless him!
 
The Church has accepted the Syriac Anaphora of Addai & Mari… which lacks the words of institution… as both valid and licit for it contains the institution narrative in the third person.

Validity of the Mass requires the institution narrative, not the words of institution, tho’ only one Anaphora of over 80 accepted as valid by the church lacks the words of institution. And all the Pauline anaphorae include the narrative with the words of institution.
Since this is a recent reversal (2001 - bit.ly/iUtZzv) of the Church’s past policy with regards to that Liturgy, it remains controversial in Traditionalist circles.
And the narrative is present in the Trent Missal, and the Anaphorae of Sts John, Basil, and James…

It tells the story… it’s just that the laity often do not hear it under the pre Vatican II praxis.
Its also pretty much the exact same mode as the anaphorae in the Pauline missal
“Pretty much the exact same”, no, it’s not.

I am not going to get into an argument over the ancient Roman Rite vs the New Mass. But you should consider this:
Cardinals Ottaviani and Bacci:
The formula of Consecration. The ancient formula of consecration was properly a sacramental not a narrative one. This was shown above all by three things:

a) The Scriptural text not taken up word for word: the Pauline insertion “mysterium fidei” was an immediate confession of the priest’s faith in the mystery realised by the Church through the hierarchical priesthood.

b) The punctuation and typographical lay-out: the full stop and new paragraph marking the passage from the narrative mode to the sacramental and affirmative one, the sacramental words in larger characters at the centre of the page and often in a different colour, clearly detached from the historical context. All combined to give the formula a proper and autonomous value.

“To separate the Tabernacle from the Altar is tantamount to separating two things which, of their very nature, must remain together”. (PIUS XII, Allocution to the International Liturgy Congress, Assisi-Rome, Sept. 18-23, 1956). cf. also Mediator Dei, 1.5, note 28.
c) The anamnesis (“Haec quotiescompque feceritis in mei memoriam facietis”), which in Greek is “eis emou anamnesin” (directed to my memory.) This referred to Christ operating and not to mere memory of Him, or of the event: an invitation to recall what He did (“Haec . . . in mei memoriam facietis”) in the way He did it, not only His Person, or the Supper. The Pauline formula (“Hoc facite in meam commemorationem”) which will now take the place of the old - proclaimed as it will be daily in vernacular languages will irremediably cause the hearers to concentrate on the memory of Christ as the ‘end’ of the Eucharistic action, whilst it is really the ‘beginning’. The concluding idea of ‘commemoration’ will certainly once again take the place of the idea of sacramental action.

The narrative mode is now emphasised by the formula “narratio institutionis” (no. 55d) and repeated by the definition of the anamnesis, in which it is said that “The Church recalls the memory of Himself” (no. 556).

In short: the theory put forward by the epiclesis, the modification of the words of Consecration and of the anamnesis, have the effect of modifying the modus significandi of the words of Consecration. The consecratory formulae are here pronounced by the priest as the constituents of a historical narrative and no longer enunciated as expressing the categorical affirmation uttered by Him in whole Person the priest acts: “Hoc est Corpus meum” (not, “Hoc est Corpus Christi”).

Furthermore the acclamation assigned to the people immediately after the Consecration: (“We announce thy death, O Lord, until Thou comest”) introduces yet again, under cover of eschatology, the same ambiguity concerning the Real Presence. Without interval or distinction, the expectation of Christ’s Second Coming at the end of time is proclaimed just at the moment when He is substantially present on the altar, almost as though the former, and not the latter, were the true Coming.

This is brought out even more strongly in the formula of optional acclamation no. 2 (Appendix): “As often as we eat of this bread and drink of this chalice we announce thy death, O Lord, until thou comest”, where the juxtaposition of the different realities of immolation and eating, of the Real Presence and of Christ’s Second Coming, reaches the height of ambiguity.
 
Maybe someone with more expertise can clarify this precisely. I stopped following this closely a year or so back when I just got fed up with the SSPX who seem to believe they are a superior “church” to the Catholic Church and Pope Benedict should come crawling to them, not the other way around.
If they are not submissive to the Pope who is Peter’s successor then they are disobedient. No matter how reverent their Mass, how traditional their vestments, or how good their Latin. Christ’s Church is under the authority of His Chief Steward’s successor. To say other wise is to cause scandal and doubt about the Church’s being under the protection of the Holy Spirit.

It is an evil thing to lead the flock away from the Good Shepherd’s appointed man.
 
The SSPX clergy in total were suspended a divinis when HH John Paul II acknowledged the latae sentencae excommunication of the 5 bishops. (the co-consecrator was separately dealt with.)

While the excommunications have been lifted, the suspensions have not. Suspension A Divinis means no administering the sacraments.

Which means that the only 4 men in the SSPX who can validly hear confessions of the general body of the faithful are the 4 bishops, as bishops and cardinals both have faculties to hear confessions anywhere. (CIC Can. 967) While excommunicated, they couldn’t…
Doesn’t Canon 967 say that a bishop can hear confession anywhere in the world unless a diocesen bishop has refused them?

See bolded part;
Can. 967 §1 Besides the Roman Pontiff, Cardinals by virtue of the law itself have the faculty to hear the confessions of Christ’s faithful everywhere. Likewise, Bishops have this faculty, which they may lawfully use everywhere, unless in a particular case the diocesan Bishop has refused.
 
Doesn’t Canon 967 say that a bishop can hear confession anywhere in the world unless a diocesen bishop has refused them?

See bolded part;
Can. 967 §1 Besides the Roman Pontiff, Cardinals by virtue of the law itself have the faculty to hear the confessions of Christ’s faithful everywhere. Likewise, Bishops have this faculty, which they may lawfully use everywhere, unless in a particular case the diocesan Bishop has refused.
It is also important to understand that the law presumes that the bishop in question has the right to exercise priestly ministry. Observe that Can 967 is under sacraments, not under derelicts and penalties. Book IV of the Canon Law is not addressing those in irregular situations.

I’m not a Canon Lawyer, but before I send someone to confession to Bishop Fellay, with all due respect for the good bishop, I would ask a chancery tribunal if this can be done.

We have to be careful. We can’t use these forums to give information to people that may be in error. It is better to err on the side of caution. In this case, it is better to say that we’re not canon lawyers and that the law is placed in a book in the canons that does not speak to those in irregular circumstances. Therefore, we cannot assume that the SSPX bishops are covered under that law and that it’s better to ask the local diocese before taking the plunge.

There is a great deal said on these thread. It really concerns me that rarely do posters refer people to their local chanceries for answers. Instead, posters proceed to interpret Canon Law for other posters. Unless you’re a lawyer, the best you can do is quote the law and show where it’s placed. Often the placing of the law will reveal the intent. It also helps if you sit there with a commentary next to you. The Canon Law Society of America is known for producing one of the best Canon Law commentaries in the Church. The other excellent commentary is from Spain. They have the best Canon Lawyers in the Church. This is said by Canon Lawyers.

When in doubt, go to the commentary and to the local chancery with questions. Do not go to CAF. Good gravy. :eek:

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
The misinformation being spread here in this thread by those taking it upon themselves to speak for both Rome and the SSPX is ridiculous.
 
I don’t want to go too off, just elaborate on a point made in this thread. The SSPX are not wrong about the “Crisis in the Church” would you all agree? I forget the young man on EWTN but I remember in an interview with Michael Voris you had him saying everything was completely fine in the Church and Voris saying there was indeed a crisis. You have the same position with the Bishop Dolan who says everything is fine in the Church and on the other side Pope Benedict XVI saying there is rot and filth in the Church and if we lose Christian roots we lose everything. Quite polar I would say no? I agree with the SSPX, the Pope, and Michael Voris…there is a crisis.
 
I don’t want to go too off, just elaborate on a point made in this thread. The SSPX are not wrong about the “Crisis in the Church” would you all agree? I forget the young man on EWTN but I remember in an interview with Michael Voris you had him saying everything was completely fine in the Church and Voris saying there was indeed a crisis. You have the same position with the Bishop Dolan who says everything is fine in the Church and on the other side Pope Benedict XVI saying there is rot and filth in the Church and if we lose Christian roots we lose everything. Quite polar I would say no? I agree with the SSPX, the Pope, and Michael Voris…there is a crisis.
Sure there is.

Check this recent clown act out.

thechurchofjesuschrist.us/tag/western-mass/

Mass complete with beer, food, tobacco, a band, a Confederate flag. No telling what else.
 
The misinformation being spread here in this thread by those taking it upon themselves to speak for both Rome and the SSPX is ridiculous.
Please be so kind as to show any misinformation that has been spread.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church
2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:
  • of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
  • of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;
  • of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.
So please be specific in your claims.
 
Sure there is.

Check this recent clown act out.

thechurchofjesuschrist.us/tag/western-mass/

Mass complete with beer, food, tobacco, a band, a Confederate flag. No telling what else.
So they are wrong. That does not mean that the SSPX is right in their action,

I find it slightly amusing, though sad, that when ever someone talks about the SSPX having no legitimate ministry in the Catholic Church (which is exactly what the Holy Father has said) or when the fact of SSPX priest and bishops being suspended someone always brings up wrongs done by others.

Just to state a well known fact, two wrongs do not make a right.
 
I agree with Brother, that two wrongs don’t make a right. I also stand by my position that because the Society says it, does not make it so. Many people agree with them because they share the same feelings. That’s fine. We can share many feelings. But when the rubber meets the road, the question is, “What does the law say?”

In the end, Rome and the bishops are not going to care what the SSPX says. They’re going to care about the law. If I violate the law, I’m going to be nailed to a tree by my superior and my bishop.

To return to the topic of this thread, if the law says that the ordinations are illicit and that this is serious, it would be irresponsible of me to allow a Catholic to think that it’s not a serious issue. An illicit ordination is grave matter. These ordinations are as illicit as consecrating Wonder Bread. It’s still the Eucharist. It is bread; therefore, it’s valid. But you don’t do that, just like you don’t ordain someone just so they can be suspended before the oild dries.

Along the same lines of responsibility, it is irresponsible to assume that an SSPX bishop can absolve, because he’s a bishop. The law was written for bishops who are in good standing with the Church. One then has to ask the question of those who have the authority to interpret the law. “Does this bishop have faculties or not?” The people to ask would be canon lawyers, tribunals or chanceries. That’s their job, to answer these questions. To assume that we can interpret and apply the law without consultation is dangerous. This is a very strange situation and it needs an answer.

I’m not interested in angering people. However, I’m not interested in sending people to confession to someone who may not be able to absolve them. This is a publc forum where many people come for information. They need to know when we’re speculating and where to go for the authoritative answer. I will stick to my original advice. Always check it out with your chancellor. He’s the best source of information. It’s his job to stay on top of all canonical regulations.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Brothers,

Two wrongs do not make a right correct but people go to the SSPX because there is no wrong done in the liturgy or teaching. Yes it is illicit, but in licit Masses there are grave abuses. What are the people then to do if Rome is not able to handle abuses around the world or be aware of everything that is wrong? Exactly what are people to do when there are grave abuses when even priests or bishops turn a blind eye or worse couldn’t care less? I am not saying all dioceses hold western masses or clown ones but there are many abuses that seem to never be corrected. I don’t blame people just packing up and leaving or the sad reality of having to “search” for an orthodox Catholic church and community. Even when people could go and still fulfill their Sunday obligation for the right reasons (reverent mass) and not for schismatic attitudes, what is there to fight over then? Personally, I just don’t see many options strictly within the Church’s dioceses, that is why people seek the SSPX, independent churches, and drive miles for an EF Mass in a diocese or FSSP parish. I don’t like saying this but maybe law gets in the way of a much bigger picture. :confused: I don’t like saying either that it seems weird the liturgy is messed around with (which is breaking law no?) but is usually ignored when a group who is trying to fight abuses is dealt with by being slammed with breaking laws too (and is not ignored and even labeled radical!) I am just wowed that the SSPX were excommunicated (at one point) while someone like Father Michael Pfleger is kept active and even given rewards. Doesn’t it seem wrong to you all?
 
For goodness sake, why does every SSPX thread turn into a theological argument.
 
No one wants to see the mass celebrated poorly. However, let me give you something from the saints themselves. None of our dear saints would ever trade one mass that has an abuse or a violation of rubrics for another mass that is forbidden by Church law.

The solution is to resolve the problems with those priests and parishes that have introduced nonsense into the liturgy. It is never a solution of a saint to resort to a mass where the priest is prohibited by the highest law in the Church from celebrating it, yet he flaunts the law. He may do so, because he truly believes that this is in the best interest of souls. However, the great saints of the church have taught us, by the example of their own lives, the best thing for souls is to live under the aegis of the Church, no matter how much one has to suffer.

I put before you a man like our Holy Father Francis. Can you honestly say that you can find a man as holy and as devoted to Christ’s Gospel and to his Church among the members of the SSPX as Francis of Assisi? You and I know that is not the case.

Go back to the 13th century when the Roman liturgy was in chaos, when priests lived with concubines or little boys. Go back to the time when popes engaged in frivolous wars in the name of faith, but in reality it was to fill the pockets of kings who offered the Church their protection. Look at a time when the clergy could hardly read and write, when the only educated churchmen were the Benedictine monks and the Dominican Friars.

Yet, Brother Francis explicitly commanded his brothers and the laity of his day to submit to the authority of the clergy, even when that authority was in error, because Christ is not pleased by our being right. Christ is pleased by our obedience to God and man. He reminded his fellow Christians of his day that Pilate was also wrong, yet Christ submitted to him, because it was his Father’s will.

Finally, he commanded his brothers, under pain of eternal damnation, never to utter a single word against the Church, against their superiors or against any member of the clergy, but to recall that they were greater sinners than those whom they considered to be abusing the liturgy, the people, their office and teaching error. He commanded his brothers to be the smallest of men and to assume the most insignificant roles in the Church and to submit to everything that the Church and the clergy imposed on them, good or bad, as long as they did not ask them to sin. Because only when one submits one’s will is one truly poor. The last thing that a man owns is not his money, his property or even his good name. The last thing that a man owns is his will. Unless a man become poor, he cannot enter heaven. Therefore, the ultimate act of poverty is to submit to the will of God by remaining faithful and obedient to legitimate Church authority.

One has to make a choice, either Church authority is legitimate and one disobeys or one denies the legitimacy of that authority and subscribes to sedevacantism. But one cannot claim that the Church’s authority, popes, bishops and pastors are legitimate and then claim that one has the right to disregard them. Francis once said that it has nothing to do with whether or not the bishop or the pope is infallible. It has to do with the fact that the bishop and the pope have been handed the power to govern and they have received this power from Christ himself.

You ask, what are the faithful to do? I say to you, take the good example of the great saints who lived through worse and more turbulent times than our own. Look at the fidelity of Francis of Assisi, Teresa of Avila, Mother Teresa of Calcutta and ask yourself if you can top their holiness by supporting those who disobey. As yourself, did they ever disobey? Would they do so today? Someone like Mother Teresa is not that old. She just died a few years ago. She lived through the turbulence of the 20th century. Did she ever question? Did she ever doubt? Did she ever look for an alternative mass or priest outside of those who are in full communion with the Church? Can you top her holiness? She was actually very sad at the disobedience of Archbishop Lefebvre and she prayed for him until her death. If she was able to achieve holiness that so closely resembles that of Christ and do so within this Church with all of the nonsense and all of the changes, why can’t we do the same? Is it only about rituals?

Mother Teresa, Francis of Assisi, Teresa of Avila, Catherine of Sienna, Dominic, Anthony and Ignatius would tell you it’s not. It’s about great love, great obedience, great humility, great trust in Providence and great effort on each person’s part to be the holy man or woman that God calls them to be. God does not call us to be holy through disobedience.

I truly believe that we, including me, are a very arrogant generation. We believe that we can achieve great holiness, even higher than these noble souls, by doing things our way. Yet, when I look at these people and the world in which they lived and the crises of faith all around them and yet they persevered without having to go outside of the boundaries of obedience, I feel that we’re looking for the easy way. It is very easy to be holy in a chapel where the mass is perfectly celebrated and everyone is perfectly behaved, because the only people who attend at those of like mind. It is much more challenging to be prayerful, silent, contemplative, and charitable in a parish church filled with lepers. Yet, that’s where real virtue is achieved, among the lepers, the harlots, the thieves and the dregs of the Church. That’s how these men and women reached heights of sanctity that most of us can only dream of. They struggled to pray and worship. They did not look for the parish or chapel where prayer and worship came easily. They remained and faced the difficulties and they triumphed.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
JR: I’m curious about your example of St. Teresa of Avila (and we could add St. John of the Cross). After all the OCD wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for disobedience to religious superiors in the name of obedience to a higher law.
 
So they are wrong. That does not mean that the SSPX is right in their action,

I find it slightly amusing, though sad, that when ever someone talks about the SSPX having no legitimate ministry in the Catholic Church (which is exactly what the Holy Father has said) or when the fact of SSPX priest and bishops being suspended someone always brings up wrongs done by others.

Just to state a well known fact, two wrongs do not make a right.
I don’t see sacrilege amusing.

And as far as bringing up things happening within the Church, H.H. himself mentioned it in his letter to his bishops … the one where the topic was the SSPX. We going to send H.H. a "two wrongs don’t make a right " letter ?

I don’t support the local SSPX parish, but if the Holy Father sympathizes with them, then all Catholics can sympathize with them if they choose to do so. I do.

List the things most troubling in the Church today. The SSPX has nothing to do with any of those things.
 
Brothers,

Two wrongs do not make a right correct but people go to the SSPX because there is no wrong done in the liturgy or teaching. Yes it is illicit, but in licit Masses there are grave abuses.
I have yet to attend a Mass with “grave abuses” in it. I know they do exist and that is a shame, I just have not see it.

For myself, I would rather attend a licit Mass than an illicit Mass.

Also, it is my personal belief that many, if not most, attendees at an SSPX Mass are not there because of the abuses in the Ordinary Form, I believe they are there out of a love of the Extraordinary Form. That being said, if there is no licit EF offered then I ask myself “what are they to do” and the answer I up with is to do as they are doing until a licit EF is offered in their area.

I just pray that they do not end up with the same mentality that appears to be prevalent in the SSPX that the OF is either invalid, not efficacious, or is some how less than the EF because as the Church Teaches it is not any less.
 
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