VATICAN - Pope: Muslim leaders must condemn terrorism, the Koran is a book of peace [AN]

[Catholic_Press]

The meeting with reporters on the flight back from Turkey. " Our martyrs are shouting to us, we are one, we have a unity in the spirit and in blood". Patriarch Kirill of Moscow " I said, “but I will go where you wish, if you call me I will come”. And he has the same desire". Open to discussing the primacy of the Bishop of Rome. Open to going to Iraq, but right now it’s not possible.

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[Neofight]

There was a similar thread yesterday, that not surprisingly, disappeared, probably (although I am not certain) because a few who appeared to be quick to point out the violence perpetrated in the name of Islam, in uncharitable ways, which in their own way, might be considered violent.

Here’s how I see it (and I understand, many will not accept by opinion):

*Religious Islam *is not the source of violent acts of terrorism; rather *Political Islam *is.

Catholics, and other Christians could learn from this.

There is an inherent danger when we make our religion political and make our politics religious. World history is filled with dozens of examples of the results of this dangerous action.

Peace and all Good!

 

[Hobbes42]

There was a similar thread yesterday, that not surprisingly, disappeared, probably (although I am not certain) because a few who appeared to be quick to point out the violence perpetrated in the name of Islam, in uncharitable ways, which in their own way, might be considered violent.

Here’s how I see it (and I understand, many will not accept by opinion):

*Religious Islam *is not the source of violent acts of terrorism; rather *Political Islam *is.

Catholics, and other Christians could learn from this.

There is an inherent danger when we make our religion political and make our politics religious. World history is filled with dozens of examples of the results of this dangerous action.

Peace and all Good!

Excellent point!

Politicized religion is indeed extremely dangerous! The Balkans are a good illustration of this.

 

[foofydo]

The Koran is a book of peace?? Tell that to all the poor beheaded victims families.

 

[Kelt]

There was a similar thread yesterday, that not surprisingly, disappeared, probably (although I am not certain) because a few who appeared to be quick to point out the violence perpetrated in the name of Islam, in uncharitable ways, which in their own way, might be considered violent.

Here’s how I see it (and I understand, many will not accept by opinion):

*Religious Islam *is not the source of violent acts of terrorism; rather *Political Islam *is.

Catholics, and other Christians could learn from this.

There is an inherent danger when we make our religion political and make our politics religious. World history is filled with dozens of examples of the results of this dangerous action.

Peace and all Good!

I couldn’t agree more!!

 

[Kelt]

The Koran is a book of peace?? Tell that to all the poor beheaded victims families.

The OT is a book of peace then is it?
There are ‘versions’ of Islam making waves in the world right now, which are hugely different to the peaceful, fellow ‘religion of the book’. It’s all in interpretation and we know how that can go wildly wrong don’t we? Imagine Westboro baptists with a dose of money behind them!

 

[Randy_Carson]

There was a similar thread yesterday, that not surprisingly, disappeared, probably (although I am not certain) because a few who appeared to be quick to point out the violence perpetrated in the name of Islam, in uncharitable ways, which in their own way, might be considered violent.

Here’s how I see it (and I understand, many will not accept by opinion):

*Religious Islam *is not the source of violent acts of terrorism; rather *Political Islam *is.

Catholics, and other Christians could learn from this.

There is an inherent danger when we make our religion political and make our politics religious. World history is filled with dozens of examples of the results of this dangerous action.

Peace and all Good!

The problem, I fear, is that Islam views the ideal form of government to be a theocracy and Sha’ria Law is a natural result of that thinking. Consequently, its politics are religious, and its religion is political.

 

[Servant19]

.

Let there be no doubt that in the eyes of God, Church and state will be one.

If a perfect system of Law is supplied by God which provides peace, goodwill and fairness for all, why would the world not want that? Isn’t that what heaven is?

.

 

[Kelt]

.

Let there be no doubt that in the eyes of God, Church and state will be one.

If a perfect system of Law is supplied by God which provides peace, goodwill and fairness for all, why would the world not want that? Isn’t that what heaven is?

.

And do you seriously believe that everyone will agree WHICH church and state will be one???
England had church and state bound together and what happened? People buggered off to America for freedom of religion!

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Jesus reveals it best, Give to God what belongs to God and give to the Caesar’s what belongs to the Caesars.

The Kingdom of God is not of this world, for any one to suggest that man builds God’s Kingdom on earth have fallen for a deception and deceives others.

The discussion is to address the immediate crisis of protecting the poor and the innocent or at least stop it.

For the long term discussions should begin with the Fear of God. Then begin to give to God what belongs to God, and give to Caesar what belongs to the Caesars, and that which Caesar builds belongs to the world of the Caesar’s which is subject to fire and brimstone and always close to disappearing.

Those things which belongs to God is eternal, which begins with peace, Love, charity, hope and most of all Love one another as God loves the sinner, so much that God the Father sends His one begotten Son Jesus Christ to die for us and empower us with His Holy Spirit to love God and Love our neighbor as ourselves.

Islam seeks a false utopia of mixing secular powers over what belongs to God alone.

Peace be with you

 

[MartinJordan]

Jesus reveals it best, Give to God what belongs to God and give to the Caesar’s what belongs to the Caesars.

:yup:

Of course the Islam “Jesus” said many different things. I don’t even think Islam knows who Ceasar was.

MJ

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

:yup:

Of course the Islam “Jesus” said many different things. I don’t even think Islam knows who Ceasar was.

MJ

That’s interesting, I don’t ever recall Jesus speaking in the first person from the Quran? Except some quote by a second person stating what Islam’s Jesus said in response to Allah’s questioning of Islam’s Jesus.

Do you know if the Quran has any direct quotes from Jesus in the first person?

Caesar, Sultan, King, Prince, Imam they all attempt to infect those things that belong to God.

 

[MartinJordan]

That’s interesting, I don’t ever recall Jesus speaking in the first person from the Quran? Except some quote by a second person stating what Islam’s Jesus said in response to Allah’s questioning of Islam’s Jesus.

Do you know if the Quran has any direct quotes from Jesus in the first person?

There is. When he talks as a baby.

Caesar, Sultan, King, Prince, Imam they all attempt to infect those things that belong to God.

I must state however, there is a matter of ignorance (of scripture and tradition) so I can’t say all who reject Christ are guilty of purposely trying to infect the gospel Truth.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

Jesus reveals it best, Give to God what belongs to God and give to the Caesar’s what belongs to the Caesars.

The Kingdom of God is not of this world, for any one to suggest that man builds God’s Kingdom on earth have fallen for a deception and deceives others.

The discussion is to address the immediate crisis of protecting the poor and the innocent or at least stop it.

For the long term discussions should begin with the Fear of God. Then begin to give to God what belongs to God, and give to Caesar what belongs to the Caesars, and that which Caesar builds belongs to the world of the Caesar’s which is subject to fire and brimstone and always close to disappearing.

Those things which belongs to God is eternal, which begins with peace, Love, charity, hope and most of all Love one another as God loves the sinner, so much that God the Father sends His one begotten Son Jesus Christ to die for us and empower us with His Holy Spirit to love God and Love our neighbor as ourselves.

Islam seeks a false utopia of mixing secular powers over what belongs to God alone.

Peace be with you

No one is saying that we can build God’s ACTUAL Kingdom here on earth, but we can build it “AS” it is in heaven. Heaven and earth are separate realities, one is physical, the other spiritual

This world can reflect all the heavenly attributes, in the individual, in the community and in the institutions/governments, and it is the Will of God to bring it about otherwise we would never read the Lord’s Prayer.

Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s is Jesus’ way of saying that His Dispensation was not aimed at creating God’s Kingdom on earth, it was aimed at perfecting the heavenly attributes in the individual.

.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

MartinJordan;12540054]There is. When he talks as a baby.

What’s the name of the Muslim of Islam? which did not exist in the first century, was present with Jesus in the first person, who heard Jesus speak words from his infancy? To include such a story of Jesus in the Quran, which is believed by Muslims to be inspired of God?

I must state however, there is a matter of ignorance (of scripture and tradition) so I can’t say all who reject Christ are guilty of purposely trying to infect the gospel Truth.

I concur; Not all seek to reject Jesus Christ, who do not know Him. Including Islam, Islam rejects a Jesus that is foreign and unknown to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Faith.

There is a difference of those who reject a Christ that never existed and those who reject a Christ they have not come to know…yet.

Peace be with you

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Servant19;12540182]No one is saying that we can build God’s ACTUAL Kingdom here on earth, but we can build it “AS” it is in heaven. Heaven and earth are separate realities, one is physical, the other spiritual

God created the first Adam in a realm of heavenly glory. What did the first Adam do? He protested against God’s Love for Adam with pride. Our heavenly glory on earth is cast down. You cannot build an eternal Kingdom of God on a this earth. Test your earthly kingdom of God with fire, and see that it will disappear.

“Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven”. Man’s will is opposition to God’s will that comes down to us on earth in the presence and person of Jesus Christ. Christ our King already established His Kingdom on earth as it is in heaven with His presence.

Jesus removed that entity or wall which separated the Spiritual with the physical and became one in flesh, incarnate fully God, fully man. This is the reality eternal which all realities submit their will to God.

The Kingdom of God is built with fire and is already burning, which is an eternal Kingdom of Heaven which does not disappear. Do you understand this divine teaching?

This world can reflect all the heavenly attributes, in the individual, in the community and in the institutions/governments, and it is the Will of God to bring it about otherwise we would never read the Lord’s Prayer

.

A reflection is never the reality of the Kingdom of God. If you can love God with all your heart mind and strength, love your neighbor as yourself and love your enemy, and go sell everything you have and give to the poor, and leave your Father, Mother and children for the Kingdom of God, then the Kingdom of God has come upon you. Do you understand these mysteries which the Master has revealed in the fullness of time of what the Kingdom of God is?

Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s is Jesus’ way of saying that His Dispensation was not aimed at creating God’s Kingdom on earth, it was aimed at perfecting the heavenly attributes in the individual.

No, the law givers were trying to trap Jesus with a secular tax. Jesus asked for a coin, which had Caesars face imprinted. Jesus told them; render unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar and render unto God what belongs to God. If you follow Jesus teaching here, it will perfect your virtues of fidelity to God and respect what belongs to Caesar.

And if you follow this teaching of Jesus, then you know Jesus is the One and Only divine King in the eternal Kingdom of Heaven, there can never be two kings in the Kingdom of God. Which is what you are proposing.

What ever Caesar’s build on earth belong to Caesar not to God. God blessed man with the earth and things contained in it, so as to subdue the earth and multiply. The Earth does not belong to any Caesar, she belongs to all of humanity.

God appointed prophets to lead humanity into His Kingdom, but our humanity killed them all, including the only begotten Son of the Father who is the owner and creator of all things visible and invisible.

And you want to pretend, that some secular government of unity or Caesar can make a heavenly Kingdom on earth?

You introduce what makes the conflict the Pope addresses in the middle east. Islam is trying to force a secular Kingdom upon people of their own ethnicity in the name of Islam.

Is God so weak, that God has to force innocent and poor people to submit to Him, by men living in the world, calling themselves followers of a prophet Muhammad who did the same thing? So as to establish a Kingdom of heaven on earth. When Muslims themselves who believe in the same Islam, cannot live in peace among Muslims who are constantly at war and killing each other to establish their own view of God’s Kingdom run by their view if Islam.

God’s Kingdom is not divided and is eternal.

 

[Kelt]

What’s the name of the Muslim of Islam? which did not exist in the first century, was present with Jesus in the first person, who heard Jesus speak words from his infancy? To include such a story of Jesus in the Quran, which is believed by Muslims to be inspired of God?

Peace be with you

Out of interest, there are things claimed to have been said and done in the NT which the writers didn’t witness. There are things that are within the dogma of the Catholic Church which have no witnesses. Muslims might wonder how those are believed to have been inspired by God. Why is your claim better than theirs?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Kelt;12541311]Out of interest, there are things claimed to have been said and done in the NT which the writers didn’t witness

.

I would be interested in knowing what those “things claimed to have been said and done” which were not witnessed by the NT writers. Can you give an example?

There are things that are within the dogma of the Catholic Church which have no witnesses

.

Oh, so you must be Catholic and have an understanding of what is Sacred Tradition practiced from the Apostles themselves and Sacred Scripture.

I would be interested in learning which of these have no witnesses of what is believed in from a proclaimed dogma? Can you give a dogma that has no witnesses?

Muslims might wonder how those are believed to have been inspired by God. Why is your claim better than theirs?

No, Muslims do not wonder, they claim to reject a Christianity and a Jesus that does not exist in Catholicism. So Islam’s view of Christianity is a false proven Christianity which the Catholic Church condemned long before Islam’s prophet Muhammad was ever born.

Their claim begins from a written document which their Prophet never writes. That is the difference between eye witness accounts from the gospels and the written Quran that is penned long after Islam’s prophet died.

 

[MartinJordan]

What’s the name of the Muslim of Islam? which did not exist in the first century, was present with Jesus in the first person, who heard Jesus speak words from his infancy?

Actual facts about the origins of Islam (ideology and subsequent theology) and the facts tracing it are clouded by hearsay. I say this (no pun intended), because Muslims state belief and honor to Isa (son of Mary, Virgin Mother) as the greatest prophet next to Mohammed, yet it is a fact that Mohammed met Christians during his trading, without actually connected to any of those responsible for passing down the Deposit of Faith

To include such a story of Jesus in the Quran, which is believed by Muslims to be inspired of God?

Islam is also based on Judaism, (which they know has true claim to Father Abraham), wherein Muslims also honor Abraham and his call from God however, with some half truths about him.

Now back in Mohammed’s day Christianity was a major Faith, thus It is clear to me that in order for Islam to thrive, it needed Jesus (in whatever way truths they accept and feel is giving honor to him) so it would be beneficial for Islam to lay claim to Jesus as their prophet as well (with part truths)!

I concur; Not all seek to reject Jesus Christ, who do not know Him. Including Islam, Islam rejects a Jesus that is foreign and unknown to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Faith.

There is a difference of those who reject a Christ that never existed and those who reject a Christ they have not come to know…yet.

Peace be with you

Yes. Praise God, that we who belong to the sole Church of Christ (of which we proudly claim allegiance to) by Adoring and Glorifying Him these past 2000 years know the Truth, via the Deposit of Faith and prayer.

Amen!

MJ

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

MartinJordan;12542418]Actual facts about the origins of Islam (ideology and subsequent theology) and the facts tracing it are clouded by hearsay. I say this (no pun intended), because Muslims state belief and honor to Isa (son of Mary, Virgin Mother) as the greatest prophet next to Mohammed, yet it is a fact that Mohammed met Christians during his trading, without actually connected to any of those responsible for passing down the Deposit of Faith

It is known that the prophet of Islam Muhammad’s wife had a brother who was an Arian Priest who converted to Islam. Historians believe it was from this heretical condemned Arian priest who introduced a heretical Jesus and heretical Christianity to Muhammad who rightly rejected it, which the Catholic Church condemned and banished these Arian Christian heretics into the Arab territories.

As far as the OP is concerned I believe the Muslim leaders will condemn terrorism by Muslims when Muslims are killing Muslims. I would not hold my breath for these same Muslim leaders to condemn Muslims for terrorism against non-Muslims and the killing of non-Muslims innocent or combative.