VATICAN - Pope: "Never before" has dialogue with Islam been so necessary, for mutual knowledge and acceptance of differences, to counter violence [AN]

[Gabriel_of_12]

Which Christianity with which Islam? We are not exactly a model of unity ourselves.

Which brand of Christianity kills and murders innocent women and children in the name of God?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

The same God hears all our prayers despite our differences. Muslims pray five times a day, they seem to take fasting seriously, their call for modesty is to be admired, we might have things to learn from them too.

Does the vows of Chastity and Poverty by our priest and religious raise to the level being admired to a Muslim who is** ordered to pray five times a day?**

Are disciplines of faith a matter of the dialogue?

 

[MartinJordan]

The same God hears all our prayers despite our differences. Muslims pray five times a day, they seem to take fasting seriously, their call for modesty is to be admired, we might have things to learn from them too.

I agree we can learn from them but what is it that is lacking in Christian living that learning from them benefits us? We still have a lot to learn about our own Faith, and that is where we usually lose focus on, before we can dialogue with Muslims.

MJ

 

[KathleenGee]

I have read comments from Catholic newspapers that refer to Vatican statements that it is so difficult to dialogue with Islam, very difficult if not impossible.

Their position is ultimate and closed minded.

Some think P Francis is going fast because of the signs of the times…He is speaking out of his conscience to promote peace and dialogue and to condemn violence as a form of religion.
There are so many Muslims in Italy, and Italians don’t care …but P Francis is drawing the Italians back into the Church.

When Muslims reach a certain number, I have read, then they show their true colors and the take over begins.

 

[Matthew_Light]

The Quran teaches all Muslims, that the Christians and Jews (people of the book) got their divine revelations all wrong.

What do you mean by “all wrong”?

 

[TimothyH]

People seem to forget that Islam is more than a religion, it is a compete system that governs the political, social, civil and religious aspects of the country or region. Any country that Islam is in a majority, other religions are really not tolerated, take Saudi Arabia for instance. According to Islam, there are regions of peace and war, regions of peace is where Muslims control everything and regions of war is where they are contesting to get control.
We have nothing in common with Islam, we do not worship the same God, we worship a Triune God, they worship a god call Allah.

This is the problem right here. “We have nothing in common” is a setup for failure.

You start with 'We are both human" and work your way up from there.

The Pope isn’t talking about dialog between two ambiguous entities called Catholicism and Islam. It is one person talking to another at a human level. It starts in your neighborhood and in the cubicle next to yours.

I have two Islamic friends and if you asked them they would tell you that we have lots in common.

-Tim-

 

[TimothyH]

When Muslims reach a certain number, I have read, then they show their true colors and the take over begins.

Do you realize that this is what people used to think of Catholics in the USA?

That was one of the reasons why the Know Nothing Party opposed immigration in the 1850’s. Immigration was supposedly a plot by the Pope to take over the USA. Sound familiar?

There were riots, killings, tar and feathering of a Catholic priest and a Catholic Church was burned right here in the USA. If that’s where Catholics want to go with Islam then you can count me out.

-Tim-

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

What do you mean by “all wrong”?

Muslims teach their new Islamic converts and Muslims that the whole New testament of the bible has been corrupted and changed by Christians, and the gospels of Jesus Christ are not credible and not logical to believe.

The Crucifixion of Jesus Christ, according to the Quran did not happen. An imposter was crucified in Jesus place. If the Jesus Crucifixion did not happen as the Quran teaches, then all of Christianity is all wrong?

Muslims discredit St. Paul and his epistles in strongest of negative terms.

Muslims depend on ignorance being led to logic in order to justify Islam’s Quran false teachings of Jesus Christ.

When God calls our humanity to faith and reason not logic grounded on only things visible and seen.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I have two Islamic friends and if you asked them they would tell you that we have lots in common.
-Tim-

Apart from humanity and citizenship, can you give some examples of what is common? It would sure help the Pope out here.

 

[TimothyH]

Apart from humanity and citizenship, can you give some examples of what is common? It would sure help the Pope out here.

I’m not going to respond to a sarcastic comment like that. Sarcasm is a hair’s breath away from insult and it is the Holy Father, the Vicar of Christ you are addressing with this comment, not me.

Did you actually read the Holy Father’s comments? Does anyone realize how Franciscan his comments are? How incarnational? Does it remind anyone of the Jesus dialoging with the Samaritan woman at the well? I’d be willing to bet that the Opus Dei guys get it.

-Tim-

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Do you realize that this is what people used to think of Catholics in the USA?

That was one of the reasons why the Know Nothing Party opposed immigration in the 1850’s. Immigration was supposedly a plot by the Pope to take over the USA. Sound familiar?

There were riots, killings, tar and feathering of a Catholic priest and a Catholic Church was burned right here in the USA. If that’s where Catholics want to go with Islam then you can count me out.

-Tim-

The Catholic Church was existing in America long before the U.S became a country. The Catholic Church has seen persecution in all continents of the world. What you mention is not the same as Islam entering free societies, when it is Islam’s ultimate goal to conquer and convert the world to Islam.

How does the dialogue address Islam, when it’s main existence is to convert all non-Muslims to Muslims of Islam? And when it’s the main goal of the Pope to live in peace and lead one to conversion by living example of love.

Dialogue is the beginning.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I’m not going to respond to a sarcastic comment like that. Sarcasm is a hair’s breath away from insult and it is the Holy Father, the Vicar of Christ you are addressing with this comment, not me.

Did you actually read the Holy Father’s comments? Does anyone realize how Franciscan his comments are? How incarnational? Does it remind anyone of the Jesus dialoging with the Samaritan woman at the well? I’d be willing to bet that the Opus Dei guys get it.

-Tim-

I meant no sarcasm. I really would like to know and understand what you and your two Muslim friends have in common? Why did you bring this “common” subject up as a rebuttal?

 

[hn160]

Do you believe the Jews also worship a “false god”?

Of course, Muslims cannot have a true understanding of God without Jesus Christ who revealed the true God. But neither can Jews. This does not mean, however, that they do not worship the one, true God. It means that they do not have the fullness of truth concerning the one, true God.

As for your comment “We have nothing in common with Islam, we do not worship the same God, we worship a Triune God, they worship a god call Allah”, this is spoken out of apparent ignorance. “Allah” means “God” in Arabic. This is like saying Germans do not worship the one true God because they worship a God called “Gott”.

No, they worship a false god whose name happens to be Allah. They would like to say that it is the same God as the Christians. The Muslim god is in the same camp as the Mormons.

 

[hn160]

The same God hears all our prayers despite our differences. Muslims pray five times a day, they seem to take fasting seriously, their call for modesty is to be admired, we might have things to learn from them too.

All the works that they are doing is for naught. The LC-MS position is that we have nothing in common when it come to our God.

 

[schaeffer]

Considering the barbaric nature of the crusades, I have to question the “never before” thing.

there was a whole lot of unacceptance and violence going on.

 

[schaeffer]

Which brand of Christianity kills and murders innocent women and children in the name of God?

Praise God that brand of Christianity isn’t common today. But it exists, and sadly always has. Crusades, violence against Jews, horrible things done to various indigenous peoples. Witch hunts such as Salem. Horrendous acts of violence following the reformation, lynchings in the United States.

 

[Mike_Dye]

I for one am ready for interaction and dialog, a few ground rules first though…stop flying jets into building full of innocent people, stop chopping off the heads of infidels, quit being completely silent in the face of these crimes. Do those things and we can start a discussion.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

I for one am ready for interaction and dialog, a few ground rules first though…stop flying jets into building full of innocent people, stop chopping off the heads of infidels, quit being completely silent in the face of these crimes. Do those things and we can start a discussion.

Well you probably won’t get fair in dialogue since most Muslims would be offended that you ascribing to all of them the acts of extremists within their community and then want them to stop being silent about crimes they are apparently also guilty of because they share the same faith as the extremists who committed them.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Praise God that brand of Christianity isn’t common today. But it exists, and sadly always has. Crusades, violence against Jews, horrible things done to various indigenous peoples. Witch hunts such as Salem. Horrendous acts of violence following the reformation, lynchings in the United States.

The question is? Which one of your examples did these things in the name of God, as Jihadist are called to do in the name of Allah?

If your subject’s were part of the dialogue, are you truly comparing apples to apples? Or are your examples placed out of context for dialogue and places a contradiction with false pretenses?

Should not a dialogue deal and relate to truth instead of misplaced contents of history?

If deception replaces truth as you have done, the dialogue will surely fail.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Considering the barbaric nature of the crusades, I have to question the “never before” thing.

there was a whole lot of unacceptance and violence going on.

The crusaders were sent to protect Christians and all innocent travelers on the roads to and from pilgrimages and Jerusalem. Which ultimately led to a religious War by Muslims calling Muslims to War to kill infidels in the name of Allah, while the Catholic Kings fought to protect their subjects, and keeping Jerusalem free.

The barbaric results history lays blame to both sides of this war.
The Muslims call to war in the name of Islam and the Catholic Kings crusaders to protect innocent people from being massacred is a content that you have misplaced out of context.

During this history most nations have a political and religious mix. Islam kills to conquer people in the name of Allah, while Christian secular powers killed to protect their people and the innocence from being conquered and massacred in the will of God.

But you bring up a very good point to the dialogue. Does Islam call to war to conquer and convert infidels have a just cause to kill?
Compared to the Christians call to war to protect the innocence? Can you give an answer to this question in the dialogue?