Vatican says Jewish prayer complaints excessive

[numealinesimpet]

Just for the record, and meaning no personal offence to any living Jew (or non-Jew)…there are a couple of things that I haven’t heard or seen during the past two weeks of fury, which should not be withheld. It is not telling the whole story to recall that Christians down the centuries have persecuted Jews on the pretext that “the Jews killed Christ”. True Catholic teaching, of course, is that I crucify Him by my sins. Nonetheless it is an historical fact that this has been said and done. The following also was said and done.

Dom Guéranger, OSB, wrote this in his meditation on Good Friday in his “Liturgical Year” ISBN 0 907364 15 2:

Pilate says to them, ‘Shall I crucify your king?’ This time the chief priests answer: ‘We have no king but Caesar.’ When the very ministers of God can talk thus, religion is at an end. No king but Caesar! Then, the sceptre is taken from Juda, and Jerusalem is cast off, and the Messias is come!

Pilate washes his hands before the people, and says to them: ‘I am innocent of the blood of this just man: look ye to it!’ They answer him with this terrible self-imprecation: ‘His Blood be upon us and upon our children!’ The mark … here fastens on this [people]: Cain-like, they shall wander fugitives on the Earth. Eighteen hundred years have passed since then; slavery, misery and contempt, have been their portion; but the mark is still upon them.

In another passage he writes,

O unhappy Jews! what madness took you on that terrible day, when you called down upon yourselves that most terrible of all curses under Heaven and Earth, and which has pursued you from age to age, granting you neither rest nor peace on this Earth again?

The Church historian Eusebius, in his Ecclesiastical History, notes that, when the Legions finally occupied Jerusalem after the Resurrection, the General, during the night, caused the Roman Eagles and idolatrous images of Caesar placed at prominent places throughout the city. The Jews were in fury over this: but Eusebius notes that the Fathers had commented that this had been permitted by God, because they had said, “We have no king but Caesar”.

But Our Lord, in His final words as He walked out of the Temple for the last time, left with a Prophecy of Hope:

‘For I tell you, will not see Me here again, until the day you shall say, Blessed is He that comes in the Name of the Lord!’ (Mt 23:39)

 

[Soutane]

My my you are touchy. The was no intent on my part to ‘patronise’ you merely to point out why Jews might feel less than satisfied by present day press releases from the Vatican given our past history. Your view that you can divorce the present from the past is one I cannot subscribe to. I firmly believe that he who controls the past (ie. the interpretation of history) contols the future.
As to my being a Brit…well thats an assumption because I happen to live in the UK. But then so does Bill Bryson !
In the debate between St.Peter and St.Paul found in Galatians on the Jewish nature of our church I tend to support St.Peter. Therefore, I see our role in the tragedy of the Jewish people as a grave error by our ancestors and one we today must atone for.

The Jews cannot stand alone.They need allies and those who will be sympathetic.They REQUIRE our goodwill.
I’m tired of being "guilted"every time I turn around.Native Canadians or Americans,Women,Blacks,The Chinese,French Canadians,Jews.My Father and his brothers all risked their necks in WWII in order to eradicate Nazism and to save those oppressed INCLUDING the Jews.I do NOT accept this guilt.You may be a self-declared Martyr if you wish.

Self hating liberals like you,usually are.

Enough.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Peccavi;

As to my being a Brit…well thats an assumption because I happen to live in the UK. But then so does Bill Bryson !

FYI, Bill Bryson now lives in Hanover New Hampshire, USA.

I just finished two of his books.

Jim

 

[Peccavi]

Thanks Jim i stand corrected - excellent writer Bill.

As for yet more assumptions
a) this bleeding heart liberal is a conservative
b) his whole family is military
c) he couln’t care less what Americans think of him

 

[Soutane]

I’m NOT American.

 

[Peccavi]

I use American in the widest geographical sense - Note I did not say US American -
but to return to the question…in the UK the Anglican church has just decided to disallow its priests and lay administrators from membership of the British National Party or any other ‘racist’ organisation. NOT to belong is now a condition of church membership. The Anglican church argues that membership of such parties and the holding of such views are incompatible with Christs teachings. Given his views, Bishop Williamson would be unacceptable as an Anglican priest (let alone a bishop). Now this decision united left and right, evangelical and Anglo-Catholic. have the Anglicans got it wrong or are we out of step with ******Christ’s ****teachings ??

 

[Miles_Mariae]

Freshman

Really? What about the souls who will leave or reject the Church because of this poor decision?

The excommunication was not for denying aspects of the holocaust, and so lifting the censure should not take those aspects into account. The decision was a good one, and a merciful one. The Bishops now have access to Confession and Last Rites.

If souls will leave the Church over this, then it is because they don’t understand what excommunication means. Such an outcome would be unfortunate and perhaps can be solved if they would have the humility to ask. Nonetheless, the Church’s morality is not consequentialist, and the lifting of censures should not be affected by other religions, the media, and certainly not the rebellious children of the Church who would leave her over a misunderstanding.

 

[numealinesimpet]

I use American in the widest geographical sense - Note I did not say US American -
but to return to the question…in the UK the Anglican church has just decided to disallow its priests and lay administrators from membership of the British National Party or any other ‘racist’ organisation. NOT to belong is now a condition of church membership. The Anglican church argues that membership of such parties and the holding of such views are incompatible with Christs teachings. Given his views, Bishop Williamson would be unacceptable as an Anglican priest (let alone a bishop). Now this decision united left and right, evangelical and Anglo-Catholic. have the Anglicans got it wrong or are we out of step with ******Christ’s ******teachings ??

Please! don’t start me on the Anglicans! We can have divorce, abortion, homosexuality, women priests, (so long as we agree that the British Queen is Head of the Church, unless she converts to the Catholic Church, in which case she is expected to abdicate) … but we can’t have “racism”???

 

[numealinesimpet]

Actually, it’s a good point about the priests - & lay administrators, whatever they are. Catholic priests are forbidden from entering politics, & a Jesuit who ran for election in S. America a few years ago was suspended. And for the record, I too have very definite ideas about the White Supremacy Organisations (or any other Racial Supremacy groups, for that matter). Now that I’ve started: that doesn’t include the Jews! They are the Chosen People by God’s command. I just wish they’d convert, like the apostles.

 

[Soutane]

I use American in the widest geographical sense - Note I did not say US American -
but to return to the question…in the UK the Anglican church has just decided to disallow its priests and lay administrators from membership of the British National Party or any other ‘racist’ organisation. NOT to belong is now a condition of church membership. The Anglican church argues that membership of such parties and the holding of such views are incompatible with Christs teachings. Given his views, Bishop Williamson would be unacceptable as an Anglican priest (let alone a bishop). Now this decision united left and right, evangelical and Anglo-Catholic. have the Anglicans got it wrong or are we out of step with ******Christ’s ******teachings ??

Just a note for future reference my British friend.Canadians are not Americans(I know you know that)but we DO NOT appreciate being referred to as Americans in ANY way.If you are going to generalise then an acceptable “soubriquet” would be North American-which includes Canada,U.S.,Mexico and other central American nations.I don’t think an Irishman would enjoy being referenced as English.

 

[numealinesimpet]

Just a note for future reference my British friend.Canadians are not Americans(I know you know that)but we DO NOT appreciate being referred to as Americans in ANY way.If you are going to generalise then an acceptable “soubriquet” would be North American-which includes Canada,U.S.,Mexico and other central American nations.I don’t think an Irishman would enjoy being referenced as English.

Nah.

 

[Soutane]

Nah.

Erin go braugh

 

[Peccavi]

At the end of the day we are all God’s creatures - there is only ONE race - the human race (homo sapiens). It is odd how touchy we are about nationality and how indifferent we have become to Christ’s second great commandment to love our neighbour as ourselves.
By the way I am neither American or English. My people were (and still are ) lumped in with the English by most Americans, historically invaded and murdered by Irish raiders and ignored by the World at large. In the Middle Ages we were a Catholic people, but today we are given over to nationalism and secularism. Like the Jews we have wandered the earth driven by hostility and indifference. That is why we understand Jewish angst and Jewish fears.

 

[Soutane]

At the end of the day we are all God’s creatures - there is only ONE race - the human race (homo sapiens). It is odd how touchy we are about nationality and how indifferent we have become to Christ’s second great commandment to love our neighbour as ourselves.
By the way I am neither American or English. My people were (and still are ) lumped in with the English by most Americans, historically invaded and murdered by Irish raiders and ignored by the World at large. In the Middle Ages we were a Catholic people, but today we are given over to nationalism and secularism. Like the Jews we have wandered the earth driven by hostility and indifference. That is why we understand Jewish angst and Jewish fears.

Like it or not nationality and nationalism are facts just as they were in our Lord’s time.If one is proud of one’s nation(as I USUALLY am)it does NOT necessarily follow that we are indifferent to our Lord’s commandment and for you to suggest that this is the case is specious to say the least and I and I’m sure many others here,resent your spurious allegation.

 

[Soutane]

At the end of the day we are all God’s creatures - there is only ONE race - the human race (homo sapiens). It is odd how touchy we are about nationality and how indifferent we have become to Christ’s second great commandment to love our neighbour as ourselves.
By the way I am neither American or English. My people were (and still are ) lumped in with the English by most Americans, historically invaded and murdered by Irish raiders and ignored by the World at large. In the Middle Ages we were a Catholic people, but today we are given over to nationalism and secularism. Like the Jews we have wandered the earth driven by hostility and indifference. That is why we understand Jewish angst and Jewish fears.

Holier than thou?Moi?