Vatican Says "Yahweh" Not to Be Pronounced

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Clearly, some sort of “soothing of feelings” is going on with this move. That’s fine, but when I hear the “is” in “this IS my body” I know that the “is” that I hear is not the ineffable, unpronounceable name of God that my “spiritual ear” hears as the true name of God.
Why don’t you read the actual letter from the Vatican.

execulink.com/~dtribe/blog/Name%20of%20God.pdf

The main thrust is to continue the practices of translation that the Church has done throughout it’s history.

It also is in line with the Church’s traditional practice of giving precedence in OT translation to the Septuagint, as the it version of the OT that was quoted in the NT.

And the Septuagint translates the word as Kyrios, or Lord.
 
A note from the Vatican has reiterated a directive that the name of God revealed in the tetragrammaton YHWH is not to be pronounced in Catholic liturgy.
Not quite true !
When we say hallelujah hallelujah during the holy mass.
We say “halle lu jah” or “Praise Yah!”

PRAISE YAHWEH is still pronounced in Catholic liturgy.
 
Not quite true !
When we say hallelujah hallelujah during the holy mass.
We say “halle lu jah” or “Praise Yah!”

PRAISE YAHWEH is still pronounced in Catholic liturgy.
Is your sig picture the “un-lookable-at” image of Yahweh? 🙂

(( In other words, is your sig image “broken”? ))
 
Not quite true !
When we say hallelujah hallelujah during the holy mass.
We say “halle lu jah” or “Praise Yah!”

PRAISE YAHWEH is still pronounced in Catholic liturgy.
No it isn’t. We are not permitted to pronouce YHWH (which, by the way, is the way we should spell it because that’s the way the Catechism does) but we are permitted to pronouce the shortened “Yah” as in “hallelujah”.

These are pertinent texts from the Catechism dealing with the ineffable Divine Name:
206 - In revealing his mysterious name, YHWH (“I AM HE WHO IS”, “I AM WHO AM” or “I AM WHO I AM”), God says who he is and by what name he is to be called. This divine name is mysterious just as God is mystery. It is at once a name revealed and something like the refusal of a name, and hence it better expresses God as what he is - infinitely above everything that we can understand or say: he is the “hidden God”, his name is ineffable, and he is the God who makes himself close to men.
And, especially appropriate:
209 - Out of respect for the holiness of God, the people of Israel do not pronounce his name. In the reading of Sacred Scripture, the revealed name (YHWH) is replaced by the divine title “LORD” (in Hebrew Adonai, in Greek Kyrios). It is under this title that the divinity of Jesus will be acclaimed: “Jesus is LORD.”
Out of respect, we too are not to use the Ineffable Name, but are instead charged to use the word LORD.
 
Firstly, the unpronouncable name of God is UNPRONOUNCABLE, and pretending that saying “Yahweh” (which IS pronouncable) is pronouncing God’s UNPRONOUNCABLE name is shear silliness!
:rolleyes:

It’s UNPRONOUNCABLE as in “we may not pronounce It” not UNPRONOUNCABLE as in “our tongues cannot form these Sounds!”
 
Firstly, the unpronouncable name of God is UNPRONOUNCABLE, and pretending that saying “Yahweh” (which IS pronouncable) is pronouncing God’s UNPRONOUNCABLE name is shear silliness!
:rolleyes:

It’s UNPRONOUNCABLE as in “we *may not *pronounce It” not UNPRONOUNCABLE as in “our tongues cannot form these Sounds!”
 
Soooo, should i toss out my New Jerusalem Bible and get another one?

The New jerusalem bible has the Word “yahweh” hundreds of times in the OT.

Would i be breaking Catholic Laws by using this version of the bible?
 
Soooo, should i toss out my New Jerusalem Bible and get another one?

The New jerusalem bible has the Word “yahweh” hundreds of times in the OT.

Would i be breaking Catholic Laws by using this version of the bible?
The regulations are for use in the Liturgy, not for private reading
 
Soooo, should i toss out my New Jerusalem Bible and get another one?

The New jerusalem bible has the Word “yahweh” hundreds of times in the OT.

Would i be breaking Catholic Laws by using this version of the bible?
Huh? No-one said you had to start throwing Bibles out with the full spelling of YHWH in them, LOL. Every time you read over It, just say “Lord” like Jews and Christians have always done.
 
I am ***THOROUGHLY CONFUSED *** by all of this !!! :blushing:

If YHWH is God’s Name that we should not pronounce, then should we also not be pronouncing the name of JESUS? After all, He’s God. ("… and bestowed upon Him the Name which is above every other name…" )

If we should not be pronouncing YHWH, then it seems like it would be disrespectful to call Him “Abba” (Daddy), yet Jesus said we can do that. Is it something like a parent saying to his child, “Yes, my name is Henry, but to you, it’s Daddy!”

If we should not be pronouncing YHWH because that’s His Name, then why is it a sin to say “God d*** it!” (not that I think that’s a good thing to do :o ) or taking His Name in vain by saying something like “Oh, God!!!” (in exasperation, for example), if “God” isn’t His Name (which I’ve always known it’s not His Name but more like “what” He is)?

It just is all really confusing to me. Maybe I just have to get used to it. :hmmm:
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs
Firstly, the unpronouncable name of God is UNPRONOUNCABLE, and pretending that saying “Yahweh” (which IS pronouncable) is pronouncing God’s UNPRONOUNCABLE name is shear silliness!

It’s UNPRONOUNCABLE as in “we may not pronounce It” not UNPRONOUNCABLE as in “our tongues cannot form these Sounds!”
An “older” phrase refering to the “unpronouncable-ness” of Yahweh is “ineffable”, which I personally think is a MUCH better term.

See def #2 (though #1 applies quite well as well):

in·ef·fa·ble
–adjective
  1. incapable of being expressed or described in words; inexpressible: ineffable joy.
  2. not to be spoken because of its sacredness; unutterable: the ineffable name of the deity.
[Origin: 1400–50; late ME < L ineffābilis. See in-3, effable]

My argument is quite weak, of course, but I prefer to think that what Moses heard from God as God’s name was not something that the human tongue could manage to actually form into sound.

God made it known to Moses that the very meaning of God’s “name” is “I AM WHO AM” (existence qua existence itself), but the actual sound of “YOU IDIOTS, I NEED NO NAME AND YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT BY NOW!”, which is most likely what God REALLY said to Moses, as spoken by God was not something humans could (or would want to) actually try to reproduce.

…but then, that’s just me! 🙂
 
I am THOROUGHLY CONFUSED by all of this!
I’m sure that was not Rome’s intention, to confuse people. That’s why their decision was explained with a fair amount of context (historically and liturgically).
If YHWH is God’s Name that we should not pronounce, then should we also not be pronouncing the name of JESUS? After all, He’s God. ("… and bestowed upon Him the Name which is above every other name…")
On what basis do you make this argument? “YHWH” may be the ineffable name, but Jesus – that is, Yehoshua, which means “Yah(weh) is salvation” – is not the same name as YHWH. And in this document that the Church put out, it says that the name Jesus was bestowed was “Lord”, that is, “Adonai”, or, more specifically, “YHWH”.
If we should not be pronouncing YHWH, then it seems like it would be disrespectful to call Him “Abba” (Daddy), yet Jesus said we can do that. Is it something like a parent saying to his child, "Yes, my name is Henry, but to you, it’s Daddy!"
Do you have children? If so, do you encourage them to call you by your first name, or do you prefer “mother” or “mom” or “mommy” or “ma”, etc.? Most parents I know would find it disrespectful for their children to call them by their name rather than by their “title”, that is, their relational title.

Anybody could call God “Yahweh”, anybody at all. But only His true children can call him “Abba”, Father, as Jesus told us to. “Abba” is God’s relational title to us, and only a child of God can call Him “Abba” without lying.

Jesus told us to call God “Abba”, and he clearly never prevented anyone from calling himself “Jesus”.
… why is it a sin to say “God d*** it!”
Because when we say “God”, we mean the Aramaic “El”, which is the (generic) word for (a) god. When we say “God”, we mean the true God. To say “God” is a perfectly acceptable substitute for saying His name. As to why saying “God” in an unworthy manner is a blasphemous sin, it’s because you are invoking God in a manner which does Him no glory at all.
 
If YHWH is God’s Name that we should not pronounce, then should we also not be pronouncing the name of JESUS? After all, He’s God. ("… and bestowed upon Him the Name which is above every other name…" )
Although Christ’s Name is holy, Tradition or Scripture has never had a prohibition against saying It. However, in both Judaism and Christianity, it has universally been standard to use “Lord” (“Adonai” to the Jews, and “Kurios” to the Christians) in the ineffable Name’s stead, out of respect. “Lord” has always been used in Christianity.
If we should not be pronouncing YHWH, then it seems like it would be disrespectful to call Him “Abba” (Daddy), yet Jesus said we can do that. Is it something like a parent saying to his child, "Yes, my name is Henry, but to you, it’s Daddy!"
You wouldn’t call your father by his first name, would you? Only “dad” or “daddy” is suitable.
If we should not be pronouncing YHWH because that’s His Name, then why is it a sin to say “God d*** it!” (not that I think that’s a good thing to do :o )
Because, in the Bible it says we are not to curse anything, and it is a sin. And when we invoke God’s authority to curse something, we are disobeying Him in two ways. It’s blaspemy.
 
Hang on - is the commandment not ‘thou shalt not use the name of the Lord thy God IN VAIN’? Since when did it become ‘thou shalt not use the name of the Lord thy God full stop’?

The name of the Lord can, of course, be taken in vain in many varied and interesting ways, and removing it from liturgy won’t lessen that one iota. 🤷
 
Hang on - is the commandment not ‘thou shalt not use the name of the Lord thy God IN VAIN’? Since when did it become ‘thou shalt not use the name of the Lord thy God full stop’?
You will not find this anywhere in the Bible. For such a critical point in Jewish tradition, it was not in their scripture. I am still waiting to see this out on the USCCB website.
 
Hang on - is the commandment not ‘thou shalt not use the name of the Lord thy God IN VAIN’? Since when did it become ‘thou shalt not use the name of the Lord thy God full stop’?
You will not find this anywhere in the Bible. For such a critical point in Jewish tradition, it was not in their scripture.
Because Jews didn’t believe in “Scripture alone”. Jews did not say the name of the Lord, YHWH. They pronounced “adonai” in its place. Are you disputing this?
The name of the Lord can, of course, be taken in vain in many varied and interesting ways, and removing it from liturgy won’t lessen that one iota. 🤷
Is that the rationale the Church is using for restricting saying “Yahweh” in the liturgy?
 
Is that the rationale the Church is using for restricting saying “Yahweh” in the liturgy?
The Church has historical incorporated many Jewish elements into the liturgy. I guess this is just one more that we might be going back to.
 
The Church has historical incorporated many Jewish elements into the liturgy. I guess this is just one more that we might be going back to.
I’m confused; are you saying the Jewish liturgy did or didn’t include the use of the Divine Name (outside, perhaps, of the high priest saying the name in the Holy of Holies on Yom Kippur)? What are we “going back to”?
 
You will not find this anywhere in the Bible. For such a critical point in Jewish tradition, it was not in their scripture. I am still waiting to see this out on the USCCB website.
It’s been pointed out to you earlier that the the News division of the USSCB (Catholic News Service) has already released an article on this that interviewed the chair of the USCCB.

Is it your premise that we should not trust the branch of the USCCB that the USCCB created to publish it’s news?
 
It’s been pointed out to you earlier that the the News division of the USSCB (Catholic News Service) has already released an article on this that interviewed the chair of the USCCB.

Is it your premise that we should not trust the branch of the USCCB that the USCCB created to publish it’s news?
Not at all. I just remembered that the anonymous, trustworthy source that first leaked this stated it would be on the USCCB website two weeks ago. I am not the one that made the claim. I just notice that it proved false.
 
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