Vatican "sources" call Pope a disaster

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rien

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There are sources and there are sources, but the fact we are seeing Third World bishops - supposedly so orthodox compared to European bishops - increasingly coming out critically against the Pope is significant.

The great work of Vatican 2 to bring about true collegilaity of bishops with the Pope was short-circuited by JP2 and the current Pope seems desperately to also be trying to turn back Vatican 2.

But the Spirit is witnessing something here. Bishops are trying to return to a first and second and third century model of the church. Rising up I’d say in faith. A far more orthodox vision in which the Pope did not have such basically dictatorial control.

IMO that bishops are trying to recapture the vision of Vatican 2 - this seems spontaneous. In Europe and America and noe spreading to the Third World - but IMO this is Spirit led.

I think this may be the last gasp of the imperial Papacy - which is not in align with the early church or Scripture. A hersey of sorts it has become IMO.

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/vaticancityandholysee/5018013/Vatican-insiders-declare-the-Pope-a-disaster.html
 
I’ll just say that this type of “news” from the UK never makes me sit up and take notice. Bashing PaPa B seems to be a past-time for many.
 
But the Spirit is witnessing something here. Bishops are trying to return to a first and second and third century model of the church. Rising up I’d say in faith. A far more orthodox vision in which the Pope did not have such basically dictatorial control.
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I certainly didn’t get that message from reading the article, unless the church of the third century was for wearing condoms, and being more internet-savy.
 
I also don’t see how any of the OP’s comments flow from the article. You might as well have just left the article out and started a thread with your opinions on the “imperial Papacy”.

The final paragraph from the article is a much more accurate summary than what you’ve concluded:

“I think there’s a good story to be told about this pope but it just doesn’t get out because of the colossal ineptitude of the Vatican in terms of communications,” said John Allen, a veteran Vatican analyst with National Catholic Reporter who is travelling with the pope in Africa.
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Six month ago, I could of never thought I would be saying this. However…

It is OP like this that is making me rethink about Vatican II. Maybe it is time we scrapped it. :onpatrol:
 
God placed Joseph in charge and Mary and Christ will assist him and the Spirit of Truth will guide the Church, and I think some people should just have a little bit more Faith and Hope and Patience and not be making assumptions the Pope doesn’t know what he is doing.

This isn’t the comedy hour and Joseph wasn’t given the Chair of Peter while God was on the toilet.

God is in charge, and until he returns Joseph is in charge of the Church on earth, and some people would rather they be in control.

And I don’t listen much to articles on the net anymore. Any radical can write something. For all I know Vatican source could refer to the Vatican cleaner sneaking a phone into the toilet to ring a newspaper.
 
Do NOT allow the secular media, the large majority of which is VASTLY inept, to distort the our understanding of our Holy Father, or the second Vatican Council. To suggest it should be scrapped is absurd.

Remember:

“The foolishness of God is wiser than men and the weakness of God is stronger than men.” 1 Cor 1:25
 
kyria said:
God placed Joseph in charge and Mary and Christ will assist him and the Spirit of Truth will guide the Church, and I think some people should just have a little bit more Faith and Hope and Patience and not be making assumptions the Pope doesn’t know what he is doing.

This isn’t the comedy hour and Joseph wasn’t given the Chair of Peter while God was on the toilet.

God is in charge, and until he returns Joseph is in charge of the Church on earth, and some people would rather they be in control.

And I don’t listen much to articles on the net anymore. Any radical can write something. For all I know Vatican source could refer to the Vatican cleaner sneaking a phone into the toilet to ring a newspaper.
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Hahah … I was reading this and thinking ‘Joseph? Joseph?’ - the only Joseph that came to mind was the foster father of Jesus, who certainly has nothing to do with the Papacy.

Then it clicked :newidea:

In future you’ll be understood better if you refer to His Holiness as ‘Benedict’, since he has chosen to be called by that name, or ‘Ratzinger’, his surname.
 
rien said:
There are sources and there are sources, but the fact we are seeing Third World bishops - supposedly so orthodox compared to European bishops - increasingly coming out critically against the Pope is significant.

The great work of Vatican 2 to bring about true collegilaity of bishops with the Pope was short-circuited by JP2 and the current Pope seems desperately to also be trying to turn back Vatican 2.

But the Spirit is witnessing something here. Bishops are trying to return to a first and second and third century model of the church. Rising up I’d say in faith. A far more orthodox vision in which the Pope did not have such basically dictatorial control.

IMO that bishops are trying to recapture the vision of Vatican 2 - this seems spontaneous. In Europe and America and noe spreading to the Third World - but IMO this is Spirit led.

I think this may be the last gasp of the imperial Papacy - which is not in align with the early church or Scripture. A hersey of sorts it has become IMO.

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/vaticancityandholysee/5018013/Vatican-insiders-declare-the-Pope-a-disaster.html
Click to expand...
Ironical that liberals should accuse the pope of being a dictator, since most of the reforms after Vatican II were rammed down the throats of the people in the pews by a cartel of rebellious clerics and a lay elite. The banality of the English translation of the new mass and of the New American Bible, a translation used by no one outside the Church is symptomatic of the arrogance that has put us in the spot we find outself. Jacques Maritain put it best: geneflection to the World.
 
rien said:
IMO that bishops are trying to recapture the vision of Vatican 2 - this seems spontaneous. In Europe and America and noe spreading to the Third World - but IMO this is Spirit led.
Click to expand...
:rotfl:
Yes, but you believe The Telegraph!
:rotfl:
You put credence in an unnamed Vatican insider!
:rotfl:

Are you the only one here that does not see that this is just a journalist trying to influence the Catholic Church through lies and innuendo?
 
rien said:
There are sources and there are sources, but the fact we are seeing Third World bishops - supposedly so orthodox compared to European bishops - increasingly coming out critically against the Pope is significant.

The great work of Vatican 2 to bring about true collegilaity of bishops with the Pope was short-circuited by JP2 and the current Pope seems desperately to also be trying to turn back Vatican 2.

But the Spirit is witnessing something here. Bishops are trying to return to a first and second and third century model of the church. Rising up I’d say in faith. A far more orthodox vision in which the Pope did not have such basically dictatorial control.

IMO that bishops are trying to recapture the vision of Vatican 2 - this seems spontaneous. In Europe and America and noe spreading to the Third World - but IMO this is Spirit led.

I think this may be the last gasp of the imperial Papacy - which is not in align with the early church or Scripture. A hersey of sorts it has become IMO.

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/vaticancityandholysee/5018013/Vatican-insiders-declare-the-Pope-a-disaster.html
Click to expand...
I think that it is deeply unwise to assume that all third world Bishops are Orthodox and all are not. Some in America are Orthodox and some are not. The same goes for the third world. Original sin is omnipresent.

Actually, I think that His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI fails to word his sentiments in a politically correct way sometimes and that is ok. Christ, Mary, and Joseph wanted His Holiness Pope John Paul II in his time, and they want His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI now. There is a time for softness and a time for criticism, a time for everything. Christ preached love but he also called people “unwashed sepulchers.” Sometimes silence is golden and blessed. Others times it is cowardice. Perhaps now it is deemed the time for criticism and a loud voice. It is true for me as a person that much of what he says strengthens me so I don’t see the lack of political correctness as inappropriate, more as powerful, as it makes the messages that I receive clear and direct and hard to misinterpret. I also doubt that his persecution is a bad thing. “If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you.” Christ said. Hasn’t the Church been subject to persecution from its earliest days? :o
 
LilyM said:
Hahah … I was reading this and thinking ‘Joseph? Joseph?’ - the only Joseph that came to mind was the foster father of Jesus, who certainly has nothing to do with the Papacy.

Then it clicked :newidea:

In future you’ll be understood better if you refer to His Holiness as ‘Benedict’, since he has chosen to be called by that name, or ‘Ratzinger’, his surname.
Click to expand...
100% agreed. I was completely confused when I first read this (for a second I thought I was reading some weird form of theology where St. Joseph was the head of the Church!). Fortunately, I took the time to re-read it a second time and then it clicked. But many of your readers will not give you that much time. Best to be clear if you want to be understood 👍
 
This made me angrier than it ought to have. How **dare **these godless dastards attack His Holiness!!!

That fool Italian, “Out of touch with reality on the ground?”

Imbecile!

All you see *is *the ground!

Look up about you and see that what is real is more than what is simply material!

Get your mind out of the mud!!!

The Pope might be the most “In touch” human being in the world!

sigh Sometimes…This world…just makes me wish I could make one very rude gesture towards it. 😊
 
Jesus building His Church upon the rock, which is Peter, and then giving Peter the power to bind and loose and the keys to the kingdom…that all seems so out of date. The Lord could not possibly have meant that for the 21st century, we are all waaay to cool for that. 🤷
 
I fear for the Pope, there are many assaults coming his way. We need to pray for the Papa.
 
peregrinus_WA said:
Six month ago, I could of never thought I would be saying this. However…

It is OP like this that is making me rethink about Vatican II. Maybe it is time we scrapped it. :onpatrol:
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KathleenElsie said:
👍👍👍
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Paladin_V said:
Do NOT allow the secular media, the large majority of which is VASTLY inept, to distort the our understanding of our Holy Father, or the second Vatican Council. To suggest it should be scrapped is absurd.

Remember:

“The foolishness of God is wiser than men and the weakness of God is stronger than men.” 1 Cor 1:25
Click to expand...
pnewton said:
:rotfl:
Yes, but you believe The Telegraph!
:rotfl:
You put credence in an unnamed Vatican insider!
:rotfl:

Are you the only one here that does not see that this is just a journalist trying to influence the Catholic Church through lies and innuendo?
Click to expand...
The Telegraph has a long history of anti-Catholic bias. That they support wacked-out interpretations of the “spirit of Vatican II” merely demonstrates the invalid nature of those perspectives.
 
“Out of touch with reality on the ground?”
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That reassures me immensely.

1 Cor 3:18-20
*Let no man deceive himself: if any man among you seem to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written: I will catch the wise in their own craftiness. And again: The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. *
Click to expand...
Very reassuring!
 
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