Vatican to Check U.S. Seminaries on Gay Presence (NYT)

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By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
Published: September 15, 2005

Investigators appointed by the Vatican have been instructed to review each of the 229 Roman Catholic seminaries in the United States for “evidence of homosexuality” and for faculty members who dissent from church teaching, according to a document prepared to guide the process.

The Vatican document, given to The New York Times yesterday by a priest, surfaces as Catholics await a Vatican ruling on whether homosexuals should be barred from the priesthood.

In a possible indication of the ruling’s contents, the American archbishop who is supervising the seminary review said last week that “anyone who has engaged in homosexual activity or has strong homosexual inclinations,” should not be admitted to a seminary. . . .

article
 
It should be clearly noted that the criteria is not homosexuality per se, but having “engaged in homosexual activity” or having a “strong inclinations” to engage in homosexual activity.
 
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Evangel:
It should be clearly noted that the criteria is not homosexuality per se, but having “engaged in homosexual activity” or having a “strong inclinations” to engage in homosexual activity.
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Does shopping for coordinated bathroom curtains qualify as “homosexual activity”?

CAUTION: the above post may contain trace amounts of questionable humor from an unknown source. Should you experience an allergic reaction, please proceed to the nearest Emergency Wash Station for a thorough cleansing.
 
article excerpt:

*"The Rev. Donald B. Cozzens, a former seminary rector who set off a controversy five years ago when he published a book asserting that “the priesthood is or is becoming a gay profession,” said in an interview yesterday that many in the church had come to accept his observation. *

But he said he was concerned that the seminary review would lead the church to ask celibate faculty members and seminarians to withdraw."]

I really have a hard time understanding this type of reasoning. On the one hand acknowledge the problem, then on the other hand, allow the source of the problem to remain and be ordained. Too much distinction between those SSA candidates demonstrating acquired self-mastery/chasteness and those assessed as at risk/active in homosexual activity?

*"The Rev. Thomas J. Reese, a sociologist who resigned in May as editor of the Jesuit magazine America under pressure from the Vatican, said that with the shortage of priests, the church can hardly afford to dismiss gay seminarians. *

“You could have somebody who’s been in the seminary for five or six years and is planning to be ordained and the rector knows they’re a homosexual,” said Father Reese, now a visiting scholar at Santa Clara University in California. “What are they going to do, throw them out?”]

I pray that this type of mentality is not indicative of those who will actually set the policy and make the decisions.

Are either of these clergy thinking of the needs of the flock and mission of the Church first and foremost?
 
I’m kind of annoyed by this.

Priests are to remain chaste whether they struggle with same-sex feelings or not. Straight priests will be tempted by women from time to time, just a gay priests will be tempted by men. They are strong people; why is this all of a sudden an issue?
 
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felra:
I really have a hard time understanding this type of reasoning. On the one hand acknowledge the problem, then on the other hand, allow the source of the problem to remain and be ordained. Too much distinction between those SSA candidates demonstrating acquired self-mastery/chasteness and those assessed as at risk/active in homosexual activity?
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I’m having a difficult time seeing a connection between the reasoning in your first quoted excerpt and the area of your concern. Can you elaborate?
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felra:
I pray that this type of mentality is not indicative of those who will actually set the policy and make the decisions.

Are either of these clergy thinking of the needs of the flock and mission of the Church first and foremost?
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I think there is a bit of baiting going on in the article by the NYT.
 
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felra:
“The Rev. Thomas J. Reese, a sociologist who resigned in May as editor of the Jesuit magazine America under pressure from the Vatican, said that with the shortage of priests, the church can hardly afford to dismiss gay seminarians.”
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Afford? Ironic choice of words considering the hundreds of millions that have been paid out settling sex abuse claims. And this is by no means over.
 
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Jabronie:
I’m kind of annoyed by this.

Priests are to remain chaste whether they struggle with same-sex feelings or not. Straight priests will be tempted by women from time to time, just as gay priests will be tempted by men. They are strong people; why is this all of a sudden an issue?
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I’m not sure I understand your concern, so if the following is off-the-mark, I apologize. But it does appear to me that you are equating the morality of homosexual and heterosexual behavior. Homosexual acts are instrinsically disordered. So I’m not sure that one can equate the two types of temptation. There is no “just as…”

But the reason it’s an issue now is probably two-fold: recent scandals suggest that the U.S. seminaries may not have followed past Vatican directions, and two, the press is making it a larger issue than it might otherwise appear.
 
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Jabronie:
I’m kind of annoyed by this.

Priests are to remain chaste whether they struggle with same-sex feelings or not. “Straight” priests will be tempted by women from time to time, just a gay priests will be tempted by men. They are strong people; why is this all of a sudden an issue?
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There is a difference: the “straight” priests are not surrounded by teenage females. Gay priests are surrounded by teenage males. Would you trust your daughter being alone with a male adult friend? For example, imagine if the girl scouts were being led by adult males. Parents would be appalled and rightfully so.

IMHO, priests “inclined” (for lack of a better term/insert whatever term you want) to abuse, whether they are gay or “straight”, are not as likely to assault grown adults (especially grown male adults). They are more likely to assault young people because of obvious reasons.

I am not expressing an opinion one way or another, I am just saying there are reasons for the actions taken by the Vatican, especially in light of the abuse scandal.
 
The sex abuse scandal that has undermined the Church is largely and overwhelmingly one involving abuse of boys and young men by homosexual priests. Given the millions and perhaps billions of dollars that this has cost the Church and its loyal parishioners, it would be foolish and even suicidal for the Church knowingly to ordain males who have engaged in homosexual behaviour.
 
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swampfox:
The sex abuse scandal that has undermined the Church is largely and overwhelmingly one involving abuse of boys and young men by homosexual priests. Given the millions and perhaps billions of dollars that this has cost the Church and its loyal parishioners, it would be foolish and even suicidal for the Church knowingly to ordain males who have engaged in homosexual behaviour.
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Well said. There is forgiveness for those men. However, expecting the Church to ordain them is wrong.
 
I also think about, because of the experiences of two friends of mine, how a ‘gay’ atmosphere in some seminaries has turned straight men off to the priesthood.
 
Originally Posted by felra
*I really have a hard time understanding this type of reasoning. On the one hand acknowledge the problem, then on the other hand, allow the source of the problem to remain and be ordained. Too much distinction between those SSA candidates demonstrating acquired self-mastery/chasteness and those assessed as at risk/active in homosexual activity? *
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Evangel:
I’m having a difficult time seeing a connection between the reasoning in your first quoted excerpt and the area of your concern. Can you elaborate?
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With the understanding that SSA is but a symptom feature of a disturbance in one’s psychological make-up (i.e., what is the etiology of this disordered desire?). That said, why does the author–The Rev. Donald B. Cozzens, a former seminary rector–state “But he said he was concerned that the seminary review would lead the church to ask celibate faculty members and seminarians to withdraw.”, present this as a noteworthy concern. This may very well be the logical conclusion to ask that a seminarian to withdraw from the seminary formation process until it has been determined at a later assesment time that his SSA no longer posses an obstacle to fitness to pursue a calling to the religious life.
 
Reading your posts, I have to say, that I have been swayed from my previous rather naive approach of ‘let em all in’. However I am also unsure of the scale of the situation in the US. It was written that the issue might be being shown a bit too much by the media, however this topic is consatantly being discussed on this forum, is that just because it’s quite interesting, or because of the importance it plays?

My personal view is one that I would consider to be quite rational. Firstly I would throw out any priests, homosexual or not who cannot remain chaste. Then I would allow all others a chance to prove themselves, and investigate the possible liabilities more frequently; this seems mre fair than just preventing homosexuals from seminaries.
 
We all should prepare ourselves for the media, which will soon have the Church criticized in just about every source possible. Many of our fellow Catholics will too turn against the Church. However, it will be a smaller, stronger Church.
 
E.E.N.S.:
We all should prepare ourselves for the media, which will soon have the Church criticized in just about every source possible. Many of our fellow Catholics will too turn against the Church. However, it will be a smaller, stronger Church.
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A more dynamic, vibrant, evangelistic Church, with priests that will attract more vocations.
 
By the way, my applause in no way is directed at people who struggle with same-sex attraction. I pray for them and pray that they are able to carry the burden placed on their shoulders, and I hope some are able to reverse the disorder.

What I am applauding, is the stance that the Vatican needs to take in this regard, and the willingness to do so even with the forces of the world against them.

Seminaries are to be places of dynamic masculine spiritual formation, this will help in the improvement of this. The seminaries in the US have improved over the last 10 years, but there can still be more improvement.

After this I also hope seminaries also include a more rigorous philosophy and latin coursework. I have noticed that there is some serious defects in the philosophy of some priests. A good Aquinas foundation will help our priests substantially.
 
I did check this Forum to see if there were any Posts or Threads either on this subject or related to it. Rather than start another thread I thought there may be interest in this thread. It does seem to me (limited knowledge) that perhaps things may have gone a step further as related in the following article.
On reading through Forum Rules again, I see brought to mind that we should not put in whole articles, rather the link. I have been guilty of putting in whole articles. So to keep the rules, I’m putting into this Post a portion of the articles only together with appropriate link for the whole article. I thought there may be some interest. It does have a discussion forum connected to Aust.Cath.News on the site and also one can subscribe free of charge by email.

I have contributed at times to the Discussion Forum – its quite lively and informative. Some very well educated contributors indeed very much informed especially on Australian matters, the Australian viewpoint, happenings etc.

**Consternation in US over gays in seminaries **

“Is there evidence of homosexuality in the seminary?”, one of 56 questions being asked during apostolic visitations of Catholic seminaries this year, has sparked unprecedented media attention…………”see link for rest of article

Australian Catholic News

http://www.cathnews.com/news/509/102.php
 
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