vegetaianism and conversion?

[4elise]

I’m gonna go eat a hot dog. My first meat for the day.

Vegan is going too far. Cheese and eggs and milk are good!! No animal dies as a result of people eating those foods. Except for the cholesterol-- gotta balance that with fish. Or go with low-fat milk.

I started as a vegetarian and then over time moved to vegan as I learned about how most eggs and dairy come to market… Today there are so many options that going vegan is easier than ever… But if someone is still not ready or doesn’t want to give these up, I say then give up everything else ;-)0

 

[Jerusha]

Christine,

I am very happy that you have found what may be the right place in life for you.

 

[grandfather]

What a wonderful response.

Do you think that we should be concerned about animals raised in what is most commonly called factory farms? Or do you think the individual decision can/should also overlook this issue? (the issue of sustainability, pollution, treatment of animals, the work environment for the people working there, etc…)

God Bless,

Factory farms and factories in general are not the best environments for people or animals. We develop anxieties and neuroses when we spend our days in those environments. These are all necessary to sustain urban life where people are crowded into densely packed environments. The people who go to the grocery store for their sustenance are not morally culpable for how the chickens that lay their eggs are raised. Neither are the people who raise the chickens. In my opinion we would all be better off if we were not so densely packed, but growing a garden is not an option for most people.

We should be concerned about sustainability, but extreme environmentalism is one of the modern evils of our day.

 

[Jerusha]

More and more cities and towns are allowing people to keep a few chickens. Roosters not allowed!!!

 

[grandfather]

I

So it sounds as though your reasoning is that an animal’s purpose is in large part defined by how they relate to humans, and what particular use humans can assign to them. That’s what I was looking for. I wonder if the nature of the purposes that people find for them in turn help to define us,

This is false. Our identity comes from God who made us, our source and proper destiny. Our purpose is to know, love and serve Him. The natural world of plants and animals assists us in this. The beauty of the stars, sky, oceans, mountains, rivers, plants and animals are all made by God and reflect His glory. He leaves His metaphorical fingerprints on it all. All creation glorifies God.

perhaps serve as markers for what stage of evolution we have achieved. For instance, might some alien culture assess the development of ours based on things like our ability to reason that an acre of beans yields more protein than an acre of cattle, or judge our spiritual capacity or development based on whether or not we are able to find kind and caring uses for the beings around us, or conversely that we might have created cruel industrial breeding complexes where we brutalize other beings. Evidently we are showing the capacity for both, so they might conclude that we are a work in progress.

Who cares how a hypothetical alien culture might see us. God is our judge. We are accountable to Him for how we live based on the objective moral law that is divinely revealed to us. We are indeed a work in progress, but not because of whatever a fictitious alien culture that is an extention of your imagination might think of us.

Failing the math test in figuring out how much protein comes from an acre of beans or corn or cattle is not morally problematic. Being promiscuous and spreading HIV is.

If you are concerned about how far along you are on your evolutionary path it is a waste of time. You have no control over where or when you came into existance and whatever genes you inherited. You can not advance or retard what you call evolution that says you play the cards you are dealt. If you are brutal, because you are in the brutal phase of your species development so be it. You can not be morally culpable for your actions if they are determined by where you came into existance along some evolutionary path that you can not see or impact where it is going, or its purpose. You might assume it is making progress toward a higher or more advanced state, but that can not be proven. The presumption that it all began by accident and nevertheless has purpose and direction towards something better or a higher state is kind of crazy. Anything that is moving in a purposeful direction is being directed.

 

[Christine85]

Christine,

I am very happy that you have found what may be the right place in life for you.

Thank you for your thoughts

 

[grandfather]

Christine,

I am very happy that you have found what may be the right place in life for you.

Yes, God bless Christine. She may have found her right place. Time will tell.
And God bless you Jerusha. You are His beloved.

 

[RosalieM]

So it sounds as though your reasoning is that an animal’s purpose is in large part defined by how they relate to humans, and what particular use humans can assign to them.

Sufjon,

If you haven’t seen the film “Babe”, do see it.

 

[Catholic90]

Hi Catholic90. I am interested in your opinion on something that has puzzled me for a long time when it comes to the question of eating animals and such. You have noted that someone was trying to kid you by saying vegetarian food was better than meat, although I would maintain that’s a matter of opinion, and of course I have mine and you have yours. Both are valid in the context of taste and personal likes and dislikes. But then I noticed something that intrigued me a good deal. I noticed that your avatar is a picture of a rather plump cat.

I have lots of pets.

I have a rabbit as a pet. When I was a kid, we raised rabbits and I ate them. Quite tasty!

I have Guinea pigs. My son went to a Latin restaurant that had guinea pig on the menu. He tried it and like it.

I have a bird. I butchered 100s of chickens, ducks, and geese we raised when I was a youngster. I also shot pigeons off silos and cleaned those-- squab!

I raised calves. I named them and fed them. Every fall, one got butchered.

It is a fact of life.

As others have mentioned, the animals we eat are not carnivores, but herbivores.

 

[Sufjon]

I have a rabbit as a pet. When I was a kid, we raised rabbits and I ate them. Quite tasty!

I have Guinea pigs. My son went to a Latin restaurant that had guinea pig on the menu. He tried it and like it.

I have a bird. I butchered 100s of chickens, ducks, and geese we raised when I was a youngster. I also shot pigeons off silos and cleaned those-- squab!

I raised calves. I named them and fed them. Every fall, one got butchered.

It is a fact of life.

Hi Catholic90: It is a fact of life indeed.

Anyway, I was looking for your point of distinction. It appears that you decide what to eat based on whether or not it’s another carnivore, because it might be unhealthy for you to eat a carnivore.

As others have mentioned, the animals we eat are not carnivores, but herbivores.

Happy chance for the carnivores.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Sufjon]

Sufjon,

If you haven’t seen the film “Babe”, do see it.

Hi Rosalie: I liked Babe and Gordie as well.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Catholic90]

Hi Catholic90: It is a fact of life indeed.

Anyway, I was looking for your point of distinction. It appears that you decide what to eat based on whether or not it’s another carnivore, because it might be unhealthy for you to eat a carnivore.

Happy chance for the carnivores.

Your friend
Sufjon

Mmmm, I mostly choose to eat what I have access to. I have a freezer full of beef right now, so I eat lots o beef. I’ve had a pig in the freezer in the past. I buy turkey and chicken when on sale. Culturally, the west does not eat cat or dog. I understand the east does. I imagine if I had grown up in the east, I might have a taste for cats and dogs. However, it’s not in my culture. That’s all.

People in the south eat gator. Gators are carnivores. There are not many gators in Minnesota !! Also, many people eat fish. Fish eat other fish. I personally don’t like fish, so I don’t eat it.

 

[Sufjon]

This is false. Our identity comes from God who made us, our source and proper destiny. Our purpose is to know, love and serve Him. The natural world of plants and animals assists us in this. The beauty of the stars, sky, oceans, mountains, rivers, plants and animals are all made by God and reflect His glory. He leaves His metaphorical fingerprints on it all. All creation glorifies God.

I don’t think we are talking about the same thing. We might agree that God created our identities. I, however, was speaking about the purpose assigned to another sentient being in the mind of another sentient being. I don’t perceive them to be the same line of thought.

Who cares how a hypothetical alien culture might see us. God is our judge. We are accountable to Him for how we live based on the objective moral law that is divinely revealed to us. We are indeed a work in progress, but not because of whatever a fictitious alien culture that is an extention of your imagination might think of us.

The hypothetical alien culture was superfluous to the point. The point is that humans might rightly be assessed in part by our capacity to find peaceful and caring applications for other beings rather than brutal ones. Our proclivity for violence is certainly one characteristic of our collective presence. That is an assessment, not a judgement, but has nothing really to do with your perception of God as your judge. You are free to live under that heel all you like, but it doesn’t fit in regards to what I was talking about. Personally I just see that view of God as a wedge, but that wedge was in the minds of people before this man Sufjon came along and will remain long after he is gone. It is not one of my problems.

Failing the math test in figuring out how much protein comes from an acre of beans or corn or cattle is not morally problematic. Being promiscuous and spreading HIV is.

Can I ask how the subject of sexual promiscuity alighted on the stage here?

If you are concerned about how far along you are on your evolutionary path it is a waste of time. You have no control over where or when you came into existance and whatever genes you inherited. You can not advance or retard what you call evolution that says you play the cards you are dealt. If you are brutal, because you are in the brutal phase of your species development so be it.

I live in a brutal world, but have chosen not to participate in that aspect of it. You cannot change your stage of evolution, but you do not have to chose brutality. Humans in this day and age are in a special position, wherein we are able to effect our own evolutionary development, both physically and mentally, and it is not against God’s will that we should be in such a position, unless He has been napping beyond the 7th day or something.

The presumption that it all began by accident and nevertheless has purpose and direction towards something better or a higher state is kind of crazy. Anything that is moving in a purposeful direction is being directed.

I have not asserted that anything came to being by accident.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Sufjon]

Mmmm, I mostly choose to eat what I have access to.

Got it. I think I get your rationale now. In other words, one shouldn’t let their fingers get to close to your plate when you’re a-feedin’.

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[Sufjon]

yay!! I just found out that the order I hope to join one day does not eat meat!! Yay!! Vegetarianism here I come.

Christine85: I am glad that things are coming together for you in a way that you can be at peace with. That’s a real blessing. Just curious - what order are you planning to join?

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[Catholic90]

Got it. I think I get your rationale now. In other words, one shouldn’t let their fingers get to close to your plate when you’re a-feedin’.

Your friend,
Sufjon

Meat is delicious! My son came home from college for the weekend and asked if he could cook some steaks for dinner and have some “real meat”! He gets tired of the mystery meat at school! So it was a win-win! He cooked dinner for me, and he got real meat- home raised beef !

 

[Christine85]

Christine85: I am glad that things are coming together for you in a way that you can be at peace with. That’s a real blessing. Just curious - what order are you planning to join?

Your friend,
Sufjon

Contemplative Discalced Carmelites in Tasmania Australia

 

[Indiana_Jones]

Meat is delicious! My son came home from college for the weekend and asked if he could cook some steaks for dinner and have some “real meat”! He gets tired of the mystery meat at school! So it was a win-win! He cooked dinner for me, and he got real meat- home raised beef !

That sounds like an awesome weekend

 

[grandfather]

I don’t think we are talking about the same thing. We might agree that God created our identities. I, however, was speaking about the purpose assigned to another sentient being in the mind of another sentient being. I don’t perceive them to be the same line of thought.

 

[grandfather]

You seem to believe we have the power to fix ourselves by effecting our own evolutionary development mentally and physically. If we did have this power it would have nothing to do with evolution as it is defined.

Jesus said we can do nothing without Him. He breathed on His apostles and they received power. We have a paradox. We are powerless, but in this weakness we have power. He said that His Church would overcome the gates of hell, meaning destroy evil, the brutality you see and do not like.

This will not take place over eons through the evolutionary process, or by a generation making choices to shape its evolutionary destiny. It will take place in a dramatic and final confrontaion between darkness and light and each of us will all be on one side or the other.

I have not asserted that anything came to being by accident.

If my genes are passed on as a result of some inherited immunity to disease, or because I am bigger or stronger or smarter, and your genes are different, or vice versa, so that one type is weeded out, that says we are who we are by accident, not choice. If we have the power to change it is by choice not accident.