Vegetarianism and Perfection?

[frnate]

Genesis 1:28-30
28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so.

According to verse 29, prior to the fall, Adam and Eve were given all the plants to eat as food but no mention was made of eating animals. I am thinking that perhaps it wasn’t until after the fall that men started eating meat. Could it be that our struggle for perfection might be advanced one more step if we abstain completely from meat? And I mean for the right reason, as a discipline, NOT for the usual legalistic or “animals are people too” silliness.

Peace,
+Nathan

 

[Em_in_FL]

God certainly wouldn’t have made them so dang TASTY if he didn’t intend for them to be eaten!

Also… didn’t Christ himself eat FISH with his disciples?

 

[puzzleannie]

simply describing the food chain, He gave Adam dominion over the animals and that means using them as gifts to sustain life.

 

[thistle]

According to verse 29, prior to the fall, Adam and Eve were given all the plants to eat as food but no mention was made of eating animals. I am thinking that perhaps it wasn’t until after the fall that men started eating meat. Could it be that our struggle for perfection might be advanced one more step if we abstain completely from meat? And I mean for the right reason, as a discipline, NOT for the usual legalistic or “animals are people too” silliness.

Peace,
+Nathan

I’m not giving up a juicy steak or nice roast chicken and I don’t have to. You most certainly do not have to be a vegetarian to strive to perfection!! That’s nonsense.

God allows us to eat meat and the Church specifically teaches that we can eat meat.

CCC 2417 God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image. Hence it is legitimate to use animals for food and clothing. They may be domesticated to help man in his work and leisure. Medical and scientific experimentation on animals is a morally acceptable practice if it remains within reasonable limits and contributes to caring for or saving human lives.

 

[frnate]

Please keep in mind, I am NOT advocating anything. I am asking a question. To put it more precisely, when we are finally perfected in Christ, will we eat meat or not? If so well and good, I’m certainly all for it. If not, can it help us to start now? After all, the “Marriage Supper of the Lamb” isn’t referring to lamb chops
What is the Biblical and Traditional witness? I certainly understand that it is not evil to eat meat. Otherwise Christ would not have. Then again, neither is it evil to abstain, again, for the right reason. Why are we encouraged to abstain from meat on Fridays and during Lent etc.? What are the origins of fasting meat? If it is an ideal we should strive for at certain times what would be wrong with extending that fast to all our lives? Could we not use it to “beat our bodies into subjection” as St. Paul says? Personally, it would be VERY difficult, I love a good prime rib! But I have to ask myself if it would be worth it?
I’ve been kickin’ this question around for a while and thought I’d get some (name removed by moderator)ut from others.

Peace,
+Nathan

 

[Andruschak]

According to verse 29, prior to the fall, Adam and Eve were given all the plants to eat as food but no mention was made of eating animals. I am thinking that perhaps it wasn’t until after the fall that men started eating meat. Could it be that our struggle for perfection might be advanced one more step if we abstain completely from meat? And I mean for the right reason, as a discipline, NOT for the usual legalistic or “animals are people too” silliness.

Peace,
+Nathan

As a discipline for oneself only, and not as a sort of “holier then thou” exercise, why not? Many Hindus are lacto-vegetarians. Seventh day Adventists add eggs. If one desires a strict vegetarian diet, one must be careful to get vitamin B12 from artificial sources, since God did not create plants that make vitamin B12, and you do need a small amount as part of your diet.

I know many who abstain permanently from warm blooded meat, eating seafood only. In all cases, I would SUGGEST having a medical checkup and consulting your physician first, as I have for my fasts.

 

[thechrismyster]

God certainly wouldn’t have made them so dang TASTY if he didn’t intend for them to be eaten!

Also… didn’t Christ himself eat FISH with his disciples?

what was that one passage… the multiplication of the soy burgers?
what did the father of the prodigal son slaughter to celebrate… a fattened soy protein and seitan fake meatlof??

here’s my thinking… the time, let say 15 minutes extra everyday preparing the vegetarian meals, would be better spent praying a Divine Mercy Chaplet for the souls in purgatory. or a Rosary for world peace.
invest your time in disciplines that serve others, not yourself.

 

[mercygate]

I presume the all-good and all-knowing God knew what he was doing when he provided man with the dentition of flesh-eating species.

 

[frnate]

what was that one passage… the multiplication of the soy burgers?
what did the father of the prodigal son slaughter to celebrate… a fattened soy protein and seitan fake meatlof??

here’s my thinking… the time, let say 15 minutes extra everyday preparing the vegetarian meals, would be better spent praying a Divine Mercy Chaplet for the souls in purgatory. or a Rosary for world peace.
invest your time in disciplines that serve others, not yourself.

I think this may be somewhat of a red herring. We can live on cheese sandwiches and water. So why not stop preparing roast and potatoes and spend the time praying?

Besides, I thought he multiplied the Wham and Veggie links

mercygate:

I presume the all-good and all-knowing God knew what he was doing when he provided man with the dentition of flesh-eating species.

MG – The exact same argument I have used with my SDA in laws for years. If we weren’t meant to eat meat we wouldn’t have canines.

Peace,
+Nathan

 

[epower]

I was a vegetarian for a 15 years. I am 40 years old. I just went to a doctor, who told me that I was dying because my heart, kidneys and liver were failing because of my diet. He told me that my body was starving itself to death from a lack of protein. He said I would be dead in about 5 years if I did not start eating meat. I also have a serious medical problem which is a result of my diet.

Vegetarianism is not sustainable.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Why are we encouraged to abstain from meat on Fridays and during Lent etc.? What are the origins of fasting meat? If it is an ideal we should strive for at certain times what would be wrong with extending that fast to all our lives?

The origins of fasting from meat on Fridays (I believe… I’m not positive on the history here)… are that MEAT was always considered a LUXURY… you give up a luxury in life as a sacrafice.

Sacraficing is highly regarded and is always encouraged… but why limit yourself to MEAT? (which isn’t as much a “luxury” in today’s world)…
I don’t think the meat/vegetarian aspect of the question is important… I think the important part is a willingness to sacrafice a luxury…

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Why did God make animals to eat other animals, even to eat their young sometimes ?

Did animals sin too?

 

[Cradle]

The origins of fasting from meat on Fridays (I believe… I’m not positive on the history here)… are that MEAT was always considered a LUXURY… you give up a luxury in life as a sacrafice.

Sacraficing is highly regarded and is always encouraged… but why limit yourself to MEAT? (which isn’t as much a “luxury” in today’s world)…
I don’t think the meat/vegetarian aspect of the question is important… I think the important part is a willingness to sacrafice a luxury…

Although there is something to be said for sacrificing a commodity, no?

 

[Katie1723]

I was a vegetarian for a 15 years. I am 40 years old. I just went to a doctor, who told me that I was dying because my heart, kidneys and liver were failing because of my diet. He told me that my body was starving itself to death from a lack of protein. He said I would be dead in about 5 years if I did not start eating meat. I also have a serious medical problem which is a result of my diet.

Vegetarianism is not sustainable.

As a vegan, I have no trouble getting enough protein. As a vegetarian, I am surprised that there was this issue with you. Meat isn’t the only source of protein, as you surely must know.
As a vegan, the fact that I opt not to eat meat isn’t because I am a “crazy animal lover”. It means I don’t want to eat meat for health reasons. I love the smell of a nice steak…I merely choose not to include that in my diet.
I have difficulty believing that a physician would tell you that you would die unless you ate meat.
If you have a serious medical problem due to your diet, perhaps it is because there were other issues you have.
Kathy

 

[Benedictus]

Most monastic orders are essentially vegetarians eating meat only on Sundays and some Holy Days. Not eating meat is an ancient tradition in the Church that we shouldn’t dismiss too quickly.

 

[Dorothy]

As a vegan, I have no trouble getting enough protein. As a vegetarian, I am surprised that there was this issue with you. Meat isn’t the only source of protein, as you surely must know.
As a vegan, the fact that I opt not to eat meat isn’t because I am a “crazy animal lover”. It means I don’t want to eat meat for health reasons. I love the smell of a nice steak…I merely choose not to include that in my diet.
I have difficulty believing that a physician would tell you that you would die unless you ate meat.
If you have a serious medical problem due to your diet, perhaps it is because there were other issues you have.
Kathy

The doctor was probably alarmed at what this person’s vegetarian diet did because it was not properly balanced. I agree with you that when vegetarianism is done properly then sufficient protein is available for the good health of the person.

Some people follow vegetarian diets on their own, without researching how to make sure they are getting sufficient protein.

 

[frnate]

Most monastic orders are essentially vegetarians eating meat only on Sundays and some Holy Days. Not eating meat is an ancient tradition in the Church that we shouldn’t dismiss too quickly.

Your response speaks closely to the point of my OP. Christian history, going all the way back to the OT, is rife with examples of people who were favored of God, who also did not eat meat. Including but not limited to Monastics, Ascetics, Hermits, Prophets, Judges, Kings, Regents and just plain old folk.

On another note:

My OP was addressing the “why” of that practice, and not just the reasons that we all instinctively understand, but the ones which may be deeper and more hidden. Then again…my question may simply be akin the age old musing about the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.

Perhaps I should go ponder it while I eat my ham sandwich

Peace,
+Nathan

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Most monastic orders are essentially vegetarians eating meat only on Sundays and some Holy Days. Not eating meat is an ancient tradition in the Church that we shouldn’t dismiss too quickly.

From the monastic orders I’m familiar with, like the Benedictines, they don’t eat the flesh of quadrupeds, which means no beef, or pork. However, they’ll eat chicken and fish. Trappist follow the rule of St. Benedict, but do not eat any land animals, but they do eat fish.

The rule of St. Albert, which Carmelites follow, don’t eat meat of land animals, but they also eat fish.

All the monastic orders, eat dairy and eggs, which is a source of vitamin B12, and fat, both of which are necessary for good health.

A vegan diet is dangerous in my opinion, especially if they’re not careful about getting vitamin B12. Vitamin B12 deficiency come’s on gradually and has devastating effects which are hard to overcome.

Jim

 

[wcknight]

God certainly wouldn’t have made them so dang TASTY if he didn’t intend for them to be eaten!

Also… didn’t Christ himself eat FISH with his disciples?

I agree 100% cows, pigs and chickens are simply delicious, especially with BBQ sauce … as well as lobsters and craps, this thread is making me really hungry !!

And Brazilian sea bass is just plain heavenly… steamed with little bit of soy sauce and ginger, who could resist ???

 

[epower]

As a vegan, I have no trouble getting enough protein. As a vegetarian, I am surprised that there was this issue with you. Meat isn’t the only source of protein, as you surely must know.
As a vegan, the fact that I opt not to eat meat isn’t because I am a “crazy animal lover”. It means I don’t want to eat meat for health reasons. I love the smell of a nice steak…I merely choose not to include that in my diet.
I have difficulty believing that a physician would tell you that you would die unless you ate meat.
If you have a serious medical problem due to your diet, perhaps it is because there were other issues you have.
Kathy

I was eating fish a few times a week. Oat bran or eggs for breakfast. Bean Soup for lunch. Beans, veggies and rice for dinner. Apparently it was not enough protein.