Veil was torn at Christ's death

[spedteacherita]

Earlier in the year, I was asked what was the reason that the veil was torn when Christ died. The person who asked me this question was curious when I said that it happened because Christ’s death fulfilled the final atonement for our sins. She then asked where that info was in the Bible because she had understood it to mean that God tore the veil in sorrow (as the Jews did when they tore their clothes in grief). Interesting comment from my pastor (and not an answer to any question that anyone made) was that, say that someone was in the Temple and were praying at the time this happened - what would have happened? His answer was, that those in the temple at the time of its rending and tearing would have been shocked to be able to see into the Holy of Holies without losing their lives.

What are other perspectives of this special act of God? Or, do you also see it as my pastor had shared with us yesterday morning.

I’m interested in “hearing” what other people think!

God bless, Rita

 

[Techno2000]

Earlier in the year, I was asked what was the reason that the veil was torn when Christ died. The person who asked me this question was curious when I said that it happened because Christ’s death fulfilled the final atonement for our sins. She then asked where that info was in the Bible because she had understood it to mean that God tore the veil in sorrow (as the Jews did when they tore their clothes in grief). Interesting comment from my pastor (and not an answer to any question that anyone made) was that, say that someone was in the Temple and were praying at the time this happened - what would have happened? His answer was, that those in the temple at the time of its rending and tearing would have been shocked to be able to see into the Holy of Holies without losing their lives.

What are other perspectives of this special act of God? Or, do you also see it as my pastor had shared with us yesterday morning.

I’m interested in “hearing” what other people think!

God bless, Rita

It was God’s way of saying he was tearing up the contract he had with the Jews.

 

[Richard_White]

I believe that the tearing of the veil in the Temple referred to the leaving of God’s presence from the Temple upon Jesus’ death. The veil was torn so symbolize the fact that God had begun a new era- not one of presence in the Temple, but one of presence in the Eucharist and in our hearts.

May God bless you all!

 

[1ke]

she had understood it to mean that God tore the veil in sorrow (as the Jews did when they tore their clothes in grief).

The Temple veil isn’t a garment. The Temple veil separated God from the people. It put a physical boundary between the people and the Holy of Holies-- God’s presence on earth.

The tearing of the veil had nothing to do with grief. It’s function of separating the people from God was at an end as was the old ceremonial law.

haydock1859.tripod.com/id253.html

haydock1859.tripod.com/id45.html

 

[CB_Catholic]

The Temple veil isn’t a garment. The Temple veil separated God from the people. It put a physical boundary between the people and the Holy of Holies-- God’s presence on earth.

The tearing of the veil had nothing to do with grief. It’s function of separating the people from God was at an end as was the old ceremonial law.

haydock1859.tripod.com/id253.html

haydock1859.tripod.com/id45.html

This is what I have been taught. People now had access to God through Jesus Christ.

 

[Mintaka]

1ke is correct. Jesus had lived as a Jew and a man, and now He had just died as a Jew and a man. God was now not just in a covenant with one group and living in a tent with them. He was now one of us, hiding nothing from the Jews or even the Gentiles, and yet still God as well as man.

The covenant with Israel was not a contract.

I cannot tell you how important that is. A covenant was a joining of families, as in a marriage or adoption. The same format was sometimes used in treaties between two equal tribes or countries, or as a treaty of peace where a king announced unilaterally that the weaker side were now his kids or his tribe, who had to obey him or else.

All covenacts in the ancient Mideast included covenant curses that would fall upon the breaker of the new family bond and the covenant promises made. God’s covenant was often broken by Israel and Judah and the Jewish people, but never by God. (Which is good, because God was also the enforcer of covenant curses. And everything including God ceasing to exist would be bad.)

The whole point of Jesus’ death was that He took Israel’ s covenant curses, and the whole human race’s consequences of sin, upon Himself. He redeemed us, as the closest male kin was supposed to do. The covenant was not broken but strengthened, as God did several times in the OT. It was amended to include adopted Gentiles in the family, and to make both Jews and Gentiles (if baptized) children of God, instead of just part of His adopted tribe.

Scott Hahn has a huge academic book on Mideastern covenants and the OT/NT. See if a library near you has it. Very informative.

From a symbolic point of view, though, the veil is often identified with Jesus’ human body. Like the veil on the Holy of Holies, or in a church tabernacle, the fact that Jesus had a living breathing human body tended to veil His power and Godhood from people. When He died and all nature was convulsed, suddenly people could see something of what was really going on, at least on other levels of Jesus’ existence. Jesus would rise again in His real body, but now it would not be much of a veil anymore. We would all know He was true God and true man, and we would see His power close up from then on.

There is an old tradition that the Virgin Mary helped weave the Holy of Holies veil, and in the East people like to talk about her womb as the loom on which the Holy Spirit wove Jesus. There is a lot of depth in these topics.

 

[Autumn_Smoke]

I think that it didn’t literally happen. I think it is symbolic only.

—It was never recorded in Jewish history as actually happening, whereas 4 other very curious events were recorded in their history.

Two of these events are a part of the Day of Atonement ceremony.

1. A scarlet cord was tied around the neck of the scapegoat. After the priest made atonement for the people’s sins, the scarlet cord would turn white–this happened miraculously and was an indication that God had accepted their sacrifice. BUT, somewhere around 30 CE this quit happening and the cord remained red. Christians would link this to Christ’s death being the final sacrifice. This verification can be found in many places.
2. In the Day of atonement ceremony, there were 2 goats. One was chosen to be the scapegoat and the other was chosen to be the sacrifice. The high priest would draw lots to see which goat would be which. The lot for the sacrifice would always come up in the priest’s right hand. At this same time period–30 AD–this stopped happening.

You can read about all 4 events here: (and they are recorded in Jewish history) www3.telus.net/public/kstam/en/temple/details/evidence.htm

His answer was, that those in the temple at the time of its rending and tearing would have been shocked to be able to see into the Holy of Holies without losing their lives.

Maybe, but I would tend to disagree with this because at the time of the second temple, the Ark of the Covenant had been lost, so the Holy of Holies was just an empty chamber.

In saying that the curtain was torn in two from top to bottom…It means that there is no longer a barrier between God and man. Christ has breached that barrier and He has become the Way that we reach God.

 

[Mintaka]

From a rabbi point of view, the tearing of a replaceable (albeit expensive) cloth would be the least thing you worried about, after a huge earthquake at Passover. There are natural reasons why temblors could cause property damage.

Anyway…going back to my previous post… in the same symbolic way, the ripping of the veil is supposed to be partly connected symbolically with grief. You did rip your garments when you grieved for close family, or protested sacrilege.

The veil was God’s “clothing,” in a way, because the shekinah glory had once been hidden behind it. His Son had just been killed. Humans had killed the Son.

But because God had planned it that way, it was a sign of hope and covenant too.

The bodies of covenant sacrifice animals were always ripped in two, and the new covenant partners walked between the two halves in order to become one family. (You may remember this from God’s covenant with Abraham.) The veil symbolised Jesus, and the veil was ripped in two. Jesus was the sacrifice animal, the lamb, of the new expanded covenant. He made us one family with God, through His torn body.

 

[pianistclare]

I think that it didn’t literally happen. I think it is symbolic only.

—It was never recorded in Jewish history as actually happening, whereas 4 other very curious events were recorded in their history.

Two of these events are a part of the Day of Atonement ceremony.

1. A scarlet cord was tied around the neck of the scapegoat. After the priest made atonement for the people’s sins, the scarlet cord would turn white–this happened miraculously and was an indication that God had accepted their sacrifice. BUT, somewhere around 30 CE this quit happening and the cord remained red. Christians would link this to Christ’s death being the final sacrifice. This verification can be found in many places.
2. In the Day of atonement ceremony, there were 2 goats. One was chosen to be the scapegoat and the other was chosen to be the sacrifice. The high priest would draw lots to see which goat would be which. The lot for the sacrifice would always come up in the priest’s right hand. At this same time period–30 AD–this stopped happening.

You can read about all 4 events here: (and they are recorded in Jewish history) www3.telus.net/public/kstam/en/temple/details/evidence.htm

Maybe, but I would tend to disagree with this because at the time of the second temple, the Ark of the Covenant had been lost, so the Holy of Holies was just an empty chamber.

In saying that the curtain was torn in two from top to bottom…It means that there is no longer a barrier between God and man. Christ has breached that barrier and He has become the Way that we reach God.

It did literally happen. The earth shook.

 

[Todd977]

Apparently, the temple veil was embroidered with a panorama of the heavens (stars, etc.) (see Josephus, Jewish Wars, Book 5, Chapter 5, Paragraph 4) Perhaps the tearing of the temple veil was meant to signify the shaking of the heavens, fulfilling the prophecy mentioned in Hebrews 12:26 (Haggai 2:6?), “I will once more shake not only earth but heaven.”

 

[Sacred_Heart_1]

Earlier in the year, I was asked what was the reason that the veil was torn when Christ died. The person who asked me this question was curious when I said that it happened because Christ’s death fulfilled the final atonement for our sins. She then asked where that info was in the Bible because she had understood it to mean that God tore the veil in sorrow (as the Jews did when they tore their clothes in grief). Interesting comment from my pastor (and not an answer to any question that anyone made) was that, say that someone was in the Temple and were praying at the time this happened - what would have happened? His answer was, that those in the temple at the time of its rending and tearing would have been shocked to be able to see into the Holy of Holies without losing their lives.

What are other perspectives of this special act of God? Or, do you also see it as my pastor had shared with us yesterday morning.

I’m interested in “hearing” what other people think!

God bless, Rita

The way I think about it is that in the OT the only ones allowed to approach the Holy of Holies was the chosen priest.

When the veil was rent in half that meant that God opened up His Mercy to anyone who was willing to approach Him, as through His Son, Our Lord, Jesus Christ. The Holy of Holies (which is Gods’ throne upon the earth) was now approachable by those He desires to save. The torn veil, meaning as saying that His Mercy of forgiveness was now fulfilled through the death of His Son. Anyone can now approach His throne on earth to receive life from the Lord.

Our Father made His Truth apparent to us through the perfect sacrifice of Jesus upon the Cross. The Father reveals Himself to us plainly through Jesus. Before it was a mystery that he had to “pull the curtain” on. Now that the Holy of Holies is in plain view, means that God, Himself, is now approachable and can be known through perfect knowing of His Son, Jesus.

In the OT God was not at all accessible (known as God Is, who Is). This is because there was no perfect sacrifice offered to Him. Remember, He says in the OT that He wants a contrite heart rather than endless, meaningless, sacrifices. He sent His Son because there was no one whom could produce such a spotless sacrifice.

It is through the Lords’ words that we are in God, knowing him as he truly is. Since God is now known through his own revelation, he could lift the veil, and reveal Himself as He is, the approachable God that He always was, is and will remain from the point of the perfect sacrifice.

 

[punisherthunder]

Careful…I had a Protestant (who’s a self proclaimed doctor of their church) tell me that the veil meant death. Since it was torn, then we could attain Heaven, but only by believing it really happened with Christ’s death.

Lots of misinformation out there.

 

[benhur]

It was God’s way of saying he was tearing up the contract he had with the Jews.

Hmmm, not so sure. like it was really a fulfilling of that contract, but Jews , and all alike, are called to that fulfillment, in essence a new contract…

 

[benhur]

How about this, should access to His glory and presence ever be limited again thru a "religion’’, or rites/ceremony, even a veil ? Is there a go between, even an heirus priest
( apart from mediating , petitioning for one another in specific prayers and supplications) ?

Love all the answers here though , and agree with with most

 

[spedteacherita]

How about this, should access to His glory and presence ever be limited again thru a "religion’’, or rites/ceremony, even a veil ? Is there a go between, even an heirus priest
( apart from mediating , petitioning for one another in specific prayers and supplications) ?

Love all the answers here though , and agree with with most

I agree! I had been confused by the other person’s questioning and stating it was an act of grief on God’s part. She had asked me to state where I had found explanation that God was no longer hidden from us because of Christ’s final atonement for us. It’s probably been a year so I’m a bit slow on the uptake of answering that. LOL…
Thanks for all the answers!

 

[Techno2000]

Hmmm, not so sure. like it was really a fulfilling of that contract, but Jews , and all alike, are called to that fulfillment, in essence a new contract…

Well yes it’s just my interpretation that God the father was ending his contract or covenant with the Jews and starting a new one with the gentiles.

 

[benhur]

Well yes it’s just my interpretation that God the father was ending his contract or covenant with the Jews and starting a new one with the gentiles.

hI t,

Maybe though Paul says no distinction between jews and gentiles now. That is both Jew and gentile enter into the Holy of Holies thru Jesus Christ. But elsewhere Paul does say this is the time of the gentiles…for now…not sure if “dispensation” is different from "covenant’’. The old is not ripped but completed, terms met in full, job finished etc.
.

I guess it is ok as long as it is not like ripping up old contract and ripping veil. The old contract was to facilitate and accomplish the "ripping of the veil’ and ushering in new contract.

Blessings

 

[Bob_Crowley]

There’s a reference here to the alleged thickness of the “veil” which was in fact a very heavy curtain. The sources quoted are Rabbinic, not Scriptural. The general consensus seems to be that it was the thickness of a man’s hand, it took about 80 women a year to make two of them (two halves I suppose) and 300 priests were required to man handle it for washing etc.

cbumgardner.wordpress.com/2010/04/06/the-thickness-of-the-temple-veil/

On the other hand there were claims the language was hyperbolic, so we’re left guessing as to it’s exact dimensions.

However if its function was to deter people from entering the Holy of Holies on pain of death, then it would have had to have been substantial, not your average lounge room curtain.

If it ripped from top to bottom, considerable force would have been required. Oddly enough no other damage to the temple is recorded.

Matthew 27:50-52

“When Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, He yielded up His spirit. 51At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked and the rocks were split. 52The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised.…”

We’re also told the tombs broke open, and many of the dead who were then raised were seen in the city.

I find it somewhat credulous to think the episode didn’t literally happen. I think it happened all right.

Then there’s the question of the temple doors.

www3.telus.net/public/kstam/en/temple/details/evidence.htm

… The Miracle of the Temple Doors

The next miracle, which the Jewish authorities acknowledged, was that the Temple doors swung open every night of their own accord. This too occurred for forty years, beginning in 30 CE The leading Jewish authority of that time, Yohanan ben Zakkai, declared that this was a sign of impending doom, that the Temple itself would be destroyed.

The Jerusalem Talmud states:

"Said Rabban Yohanan Ben Zakkai to the Temple, ‘O Temple, why do you frighten us? We know that you will end up destroyed. For it has been said, ‘Open your doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour your cedars’ " (Zechariah 11:1)’ (Sota 6:3).

Yohanan Ben Zakkai was the leader of the Jewish community during the time following the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE, when the Jewish government was transferred to Jamnia, some thirty miles west of Jerusalem.

Might the doors have opened to also signify that all may now enter the Temple, even to its innermost holy sections. The evidence supported by the miracles described above suggests the Lord’s presence had departed from the Temple. This was no longer just a place for High Priests alone, but the doors swung open for all to enter the Lord’s house of worship…

 

[rmcmullan]

Interesting comments. Not all the gospels mention it but I always assumed it was part of the verse that follows (Matt 51-2), that Christ brought forth the first resurrection. Because the Great Atonement was achieved, Man could once again stand in the presence of the Father and the graves of the dead were opened and they ministered unto many.

 

[Nyika]

I think that it didn’t literally happen. I think it is symbolic only.

—It was never recorded in Jewish history as actually happening, whereas 4 other very curious events were recorded in their history.

Two of these events are a part of the Day of Atonement ceremony.

1. A scarlet cord was tied around the neck of the scapegoat. After the priest made atonement for the people’s sins, the scarlet cord would turn white–this happened miraculously and was an indication that God had accepted their sacrifice. BUT, somewhere around 30 CE this quit happening and the cord remained red. Christians would link this to Christ’s death being the final sacrifice. This verification can be found in many places.
2. In the Day of atonement ceremony, there were 2 goats. One was chosen to be the scapegoat and the other was chosen to be the sacrifice. The high priest would draw lots to see which goat would be which. The lot for the sacrifice would always come up in the priest’s right hand. At this same time period–30 AD–this stopped happening.

You can read about all 4 events here: (and they are recorded in Jewish history) www3.telus.net/public/kstam/en/temple/details/evidence.htm

Maybe, but I would tend to disagree with this because at the time of the second temple, the Ark of the Covenant had been lost, so the Holy of Holies was just an empty chamber.

In saying that the curtain was torn in two from top to bottom…It means that there is no longer a barrier between God and man. Christ has breached that barrier and He has become the Way that we reach God.