Veil

[CB_Catholic]

If I remember correctly, having grown up in the 1950’s, women in this country did not usually wear chapel veils to church, they wore hats or scarves. And I seem to recall that it was Jackie O., in the early 60’s, who made the chapel veil popular, although she wore many beautiful hats also.

There were also lace doilies made for covering the head, and in a pinch, we would put a hanky or kleenex on our heads. But chapel veils were not the norm. It seems that people think that veiling was the norm, and those who cover their heads automatically think veils, but back then, if you were getting dressed up to go somewhere, like church, city shopping, a luncheon, etc, the outfit included a hat and gloves.

The veil (mantilla) didn’t have any particular significance, it was just a head covering, in lieu of a hat. Black and white were the most popular colors because they would go with just about anything, and in the summer white was more popular because it went better with the lighter summer clothing colors. Little girls often wore the doilies, or headbands, or little flowered and ribboned hats they got when they got their new Easter outfits. Also, most Protestant women wore hats to church also–it was just the custom and style.

Unless you were a nun or sister, the veil and the color had no significance other than a head covering, and it still doesn’t. So it seems that a new tradition has developed fairly recently about wearing a veil and the significance of colors, but it isn’t based on any American tradition that I know of, unless you were a widow, who sometimes wore black veils attached to a hat which covered their faces also.

I have nothing against mantillas, they are very portable, some are very pretty, but I just wanted to correct the notion that the traditional headcovering in this country for church was a veil, when it wasn’t. For myself, I wish hats were back in style, people seemed to dress better for church back then and there were so many pretty hats. But I guess I"m showing my age .

 

[brigid12]

Apparently, some posters have said that they were familiar with wearing mantillas/lace veils pre-VII if they lived in communities with a large hispanic population. I don’t believe they noticed much difference in colors other than generally white being for unwed women and black for married/widowed women. Maybe other colors (blue, green, off-white, etc) were not as available to them.
I applaud you for showing reverence to the Lord as it is certainly not against what the Church has said for us to do even if it is no longer Canon Law.

 

[puzzleannie]

fabric stores used to carry lace intended for mantillas by the yard, and sold the trim as well. you could just buy the lace in the right length and cut around the circle patterns (probably roses I guess) to make the right shape, and it did not need a trim, or just cut straight edges and hem with lace. we did it as a home ec project one year. I can’t remember any other colors besides white and black, and maybe grey, but I thought it had more to do with hair color. There was also a type of veil just a fishnet type in a round cap which covered your head, with maybe a bow on top, that was popular for a couple of years, also chiffon scarves, and these coincided with the bee-hive hairdo years. our elementary school uniform included a cloth beanie for girls (we had red for confirmation in 6th grade).

as I recall the timespan of veils/chapel caps was rather brief, as lady’s hats went out of fashion, yet we were still required to wear a head covering, I think they met a need for those few years. the chapel veil was part of our HS school uniform. I remember my mom, sisters and I had hats for Easter up to about 1963 or so then they seemed to go out of fashion over night, but we still wore the veils up until about 1968-69, I imagine that varied in different parts of the country. by the time I got married, nobody was wearing any type of headcovering in church, and for a time even wedding veils were out of fashion, and girls wore flowers or clips or something similar.

 

[Belgarion]

So color doesn’t matter? Even for a Latin MAss?

I’m hearing conflicting stories from the same priest.
First he said it was:
Black= Widow
White = UNmarried
Off-white (like pink or other colors) = Married

Now he’s saying its simply Black and white for married/widowed and unmarried respectively.

My mother doesn’t like that idea, and she wants to be informed for the Latin mass we’re going to.

Confusing…But The first explanation seems logical…

 

[lizaanne]

With all due respect to your priest, he has absolutely nothing to base this on other than perhaps outdated social norms or fashion, or personal opinion. I suggest that you simply wear what you like, and if Father has a problem with it then you can speak with specifically about your own situation and ask him to present you with supporting documentation regarding what he “thinks” is right. Because there isn’t anything.

~Liza

 

[Belgarion]

With all due respect to your priest, he has absolutely nothing to base this on other than perhaps outdated social norms or fashion, or personal opinion. I suggest that you simply wear what you like, and if Father has a problem with it then you can speak with specifically about your own situation and ask him to present you with supporting documentation regarding what he “thinks” is right. Because there isn’t anything.

~Liza

Well I’m not wearing it anyways…unless you think guys should wear veils, too

Its a traditional thing, though. And he wouldn’t suggest it if he wasn’t getting it from somewhere. He’s a great priest. The kind that you want to never leave!
I think that he’s getting this from somewhere reliable. But the question is which one should my mom (and other female friends and relatives) follow?

I think he’s having a talk about the LAtin Mass next week. My mom will ask him, but she just wanted me to see what the real deal was so she could correct or agree with him.

 

[lizaanne]

Well I’m not wearing it anyways…unless you think guys should wear veils, too

Its a traditional thing, though. And he wouldn’t suggest it if he wasn’t getting it from somewhere. He’s a great priest. The kind that you want to never leave!
I think that he’s getting this from somewhere reliable. But the question is which one should my mom (and other female friends and relatives) follow?

I think he’s having a talk about the LAtin Mass next week. My mom will ask him, but she just wanted me to see what the real deal was so she could correct or agree with him.

I know what you mean, my priest is like that, wish we could clone him!

I think that if she were to simply ask him, not in a confrontational or questioning way, but just out of curiosity and a desire to learn - “Father, that is really interesting, but I’ve heard that there really isn’t a specific meaning to the color of veil for a woman. Do you have someplace specific where I can find this information so I can learn more about it?”

~Liza

 

[Belgarion]

I know what you mean, my priest is like that, wish we could clone him!

I think that if she were to simply ask him, not in a confrontational or questioning way, but just out of curiosity and a desire to learn - “Father, that is really interesting, but I’ve heard that there really isn’t a specific meaning to the color of veil for a woman. Do you have someplace specific where I can find this information so I can learn more about it?”

~Liza

Well apparently someone called him and asked him. Tonight, I mean.

He said black for married and widowed, and white for unmarried.
He’s doing the Mass I think, so OK:shrug:

 

[Debra_C]

Hi Lizaanne,
Could you please enlighten me, a new convert, as to why the subject of covering is a “contentious” issue?
I really have no idea why covering ones head, or discussing it would be contentious?

I want to cover my head, mostly because of the “angels” mentioned by Paul in corinthians. But to be honest, I am afraid because no one covers their head at my church.

I don’t want to stick out like a sore thumb, but I really do worry that I’m not being respectful enough of the angels.

Lisa44
(puzzleannie please to not respond to my post), thanks.

Lisa, it is contentious because there is quite a bit of argument about whether women are still obligated to veil because of the 1917 canon. I believe there is an article by Jimmy Akins about the issue as well as a number of past threads. The US Bishops and hte Vatican have as yet been silent on the issue.

That said, regardless of your belief about whether it is an obligation or not, it is certainly a reasonable and pious devotion that is well grounded in Catholic tradition. I am pretty much the only woman that veils regularly at my own parish. I have been asked questions on occasion and once got an angry comment (some feminist was offended and basically accused me of trying to personally turn back the clock on women’s rights). It bothered a great deal at first, but I have pretty much gotten over it. If you feel called to cover your head, but are still feeling shy about it, you might try a hat that matches your outfit or perhaps a scarf or headband. There is no one type of headcovering that is acceptable. Wear what is comfortable for you.

 

[lizaanne]

Lisa, it is contentious because there is quite a bit of argument about whether women are still obligated to veil because of the 1917 canon. I believe there is an article by Jimmy Akins about the issue as well as a number of past threads. The US Bishops and hte Vatican have as yet been silent on the issue.

That said, regardless of your belief about whether it is an obligation or not, it is certainly a reasonable and pious devotion that is well grounded in Catholic tradition. I am pretty much the only woman that veils regularly at my own parish. I have been asked questions on occasion and once got an angry comment (some feminist was offended and basically accused me of trying to personally turn back the clock on women’s rights). It bothered a great deal at first, but I have pretty much gotten over it. If you feel called to cover your head, but are still feeling shy about it, you might try a hat that matches your outfit or perhaps a scarf or headband. There is no one type of headcovering that is acceptable. Wear what is comfortable for you.

Debra - I cover my head at every Mass and at adoration. Not sure, but I think you are confusing me with someone else, and perhaps didn’t read the entire thread.

Oh - and it’s Liza with a “z”.

~Liza

 

[aimee]

Debra - I cover my head at every Mass and at adoration. Not sure, but I think you are confusing me with someone else, and perhaps didn’t read the entire thread.

Oh - and it’s Liza with a “z”.

~Liza

Do you think wearing a snood or knit hat the same as a veil? I wear a knit beret but would like to try another type hat etc?

 

[jeanannemarie]

Aimmee, there are some nice snood type coverings on a website called Devorah’s Headcoverings. The site is easy to find. I thought they were really pretty. So far I have had the desire to cover at the NO, but haven’t mustered the courage. I use a chapel veil for the Latin Mass on the rare occasion that I can attend. The next time I go to a Latin Mass I plan to use a long sheer black scarf that I found and really like. It looks better on me than the veil I have used. I am planning to wear a vintage hat I found at a second hand store for this Advent season. It is black velvet, a small round cap with a small bow and has a bit of veil stuff on the front that forms a sort of band. It sits on the back of my head and looks quite nice. I am waiting for the hatpins I found on ebay; otherwise the hat won’t stay on. Isn’t it funny, I don’t even really know how the hatpin thing works, just guessing and trying, but the hat seems like a good way to start covering and appropriate for my winter outfits. I am married with grown children, hence the choice of black. As you can see, I too am eager to try, but timid like many others.

 

[lizaanne]

Do you think wearing a snood or knit hat the same as a veil? I wear a knit beret but would like to try another type hat etc?

I agree with jeanannemarie - I think a snood or knit hat would be fine.

I think the main thing to remember is WHY you are covering your head, not so much what you are covering it with. Try not to worry so much about the how, but more about the why, and the rest will take care of itself.

When I first decided to start covering my head at Mass I didn’t really have anything that would work in the summer. So I started with some silk scarves, tied over my head and tied under my hair in the back, kerchief style, but with large scarves. I have to say that I felt like I looked like a total idiot!! But it was more important for me to cover my head at that moment, and not to just wait until my first chapel veil came in the mail. So I put up with the slippery weird looking scarf - it was the act of having my head covered in the presence of Christ and His angels that mattered more to me.

So - do what you feel comfortable with. In time it will feel perfectly natural to you, and when you forget to cover your head, THEN you will feel self conscious!!

~Liza

 

[aimee]

Thanks for the responses…I know why to cover but I want to look okay…its hard to find mantillas at the store…so all has to be ordered. I like hats but I’ve never worn them much. Do you know the first time I covered my head was in an Episcopal church…?

I think this should be encourged…and the reason explained…maybe others will follow suit

 

[lizaanne]

Thanks for the responses…I know why to cover but I want to look okay…its hard to find mantillas at the store…so all has to be ordered. I like hats but I’ve never worn them much. Do you know the first time I covered my head was in an Episcopal church…?

I think this should be encourged…and the reason explained…maybe others will follow suit

I have bought a bunch of my chapel veils on eBay - and some at estate sales. I even found an AMAZING HUGE black mourning veil at a flea market of all places!! It’s not something I would ever wear, it’s the type that completely covers your face over the top of a large brimmed black dress hat - very Italian. But the lace is exquisite and for $12 I HAD to rescue it from the flea market!!!

~Liza