Veiling in Church

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My mantilla and head scarves are not elaborate but yet look nice with any of my church outfits. Although, I’ve seen some mantillas I can tell that look expensive & stuff without asking the person where they got theirs.
 
nickybr38 said:
No, but I was always taught that every single thing in the Bible has merit… and I suppose I’m not connecting why this was declared Scripture if the things taught in it are dismissed. It’s just a difficult thing for me to understand.
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Of course everything in the Bible has merit. However, we must realize that some things relate to the people of that time and place, such as things like women sitting separately and covering their heads. These are not things on which our faith hinges.

We, as Catholics, must trust in the Magisterium, the teaching authority of the Church, when changeable Church laws governing things that are extrinsic, rather than intrinsic, to the faith are altered.
 
AntalKalnoky said:
Thanks for the great reference site from EWTN. But there is misunderstanding: Wearing a Veil is no longer The Norn, or required, but is The Greatest Personal Sign of Devotion To Our Lord, His Church. Cardinal Burke missed that key point.
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While covering one’s head is certainly seen as a sign of devotion, and I am all for women wearing a covering should they choose, I think that the Cardinal has an excellent understanding of the Church’s position. I think that you are ascribing way too much significance to the practice.
 
AntalKalnoky said:
Women wearing a veil is a tradition since the time of Christ, and will never leave. The growing religous orders are the Traditional and Habit wearing; it is the non-traditional customs and Habits that are declining. EWTN Mother Angelica’s public growth in traditionalism has been very influential, including everyone genuflecting for Communion, even Vocations. Wouldn’t you be Publicizing, encouraging traditional veils to Others? Others would follow because of your Strength in respect To Our Lord, obvious opposite of personal pride.
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You are right, I have heard of how much Mother Angelica has done to be an example to religious orders. There are a number of them, including hers, the Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration, as well as some Dominican Orders in Michigan that are drawing young women in to very traditional orders. Thank you for your insight into my wearing a veil at Mass. It has given me some more encouragement! God Bless!
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Problem was, veils/headcoverings were never about NOT being equal, but about being sacred. About being loving and respectful, not strident and ‘demanding rights’ as though God was punishing us for being uppity wimmen.
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Actually, it was more about what was the woman’s position in vllage society. You could who was eiligible for marriage, who was married, who was married with children and who was a widow simply by looking at what kind of head covering she was wearing.

In many regions, when a young bride put on her marriage cap, this was a sign that she was no longer a child, but an adult member of the village community. She never left her home agian without her head being covered with her marriage cap again.

Hope this helps…
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Right. … but the Church can still ‘bring it back’ just as the bishops in the UK are bringing ‘back’ year-round Friday abstinence.

Because part of the reason that it became no longer ‘required’ was based (IMO) on a deliberate falsification and misinformation that was spread among women (and men) – that women covering was a way in which women were made ‘second class’, inferior to men, etc. At the time (1960s) when feminism was riding ‘high’ and women were burning bras and slamming doors onto men who were holding them open and breathing fire about ‘mankind’ and ‘chauvanist pigs’, this kind of talk was EMBARRASSING to the ‘enlightened’ Catholic clergy and laity of the 1960s who wanted Catholicism to be more ‘kumbayah kool’ and less focused on the ‘little old lady in mantilla’ stereotype. Hence, Catholic women ‘just did it’ and threw off the shackles --the ‘scarf’ shackles–in the name of being EQUAL.

Problem was, veils/headcoverings were never about NOT being equal, but about being sacred. About being loving and respectful, not strident and ‘demanding rights’ as though God was punishing us for being uppity wimmen.

I’m seeing a lot more women who are embracing headcoverings for the right reason–because unlike the pile of dreck misinformation that attempted to portray it as nothing but a CUSTOM, it is far more --and women are sensing this and they’re demanding to learn about it.

The ones I feel sorry for are the women who were deluded into thinking that hats are a symbol of male oppression and who even now, even if their HEAD (no pun intended) tells them the truth, have a visceral GUT reaction and just cannot bring themselves to even consider putting on the dreaded ‘hat’. It’s become such a powerful symbol of ‘evil’ to them that they just can’t get past it.
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I think it was this statement that comes across as judgemental. Maybe you didn’t mean it that way…as I’m assuming but that is what seems to come across.

I have no problem with women who veil…I just am not one of them. That doesn’t mean I’m uppity or that I’m a feminist. My head simply does not tell me it’s the “right” thing to do:shrug:
 
Annabelle_Marie said:
I think it was this statement that comes across as judgemental. Maybe you didn’t mean it that way…as I’m assuming but that is what seems to come across.

I have no problem with women who veil…I just am not one of them. That doesn’t mean I’m uppity or that I’m a feminist. My head simply does not tell me it’s the “right” thing to do:shrug:
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Ah. But I have actually seen posts from many women who do indeed say that they actually physically feel ‘repulsed’ by the idea of having to ‘wear a hat in church’ and that they simply could not do it, even if directed. And I really do feel sorry for somebody who truly must have been deceived into thinking this. I’d feel the same about those who were deluded into thinking anything perfectly fine objectively was some kind of symbol of evil.

And that is NOT the same as somebody who doesn’t feel that she personally wants to wear a hat. Some people don’t care for how they look in hats, or feel uncomfortable with something on their head – that is NOT the same though as the (hopefully few, and the ones I’m sorry for) person who feels that a hat or, more usually a veil, is a disgusting thing and that women who wear them are either trying to FORCE women back to second-class citizens or are deluded themselves.

I hope that makes it clearer --that it is only those women who were told, and then believed, that veils/coverings are a ‘symbol of male oppression’ and who believed this to such an extent that they could never even imagine wearing one because that imagery is so distasteful to them, who are ‘deluded’. Women who just don’t like hats or how they look or just don’t feel right wearing one (but who certainly don’t feel they are symbols of hideous male oppression) aren’t deluded and are perfectly fine.
 
LemonAndLime said:
How are lesbians more proud of being simply female than any other woman? :confused:

Just asking because it puzzles me.

As for the rest… 🍿
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LemonandLime,
It could very well be that this is just what I’ve observed but I was referring to how anti-feminine our culture is. Women who are squishy are too fat; they have to be as muscular as a man to be beautiful. Women who pour themselves into making stable homes (and thereby stable individuals) are good for nothing else; if they were truly intelligent or talented they’d be out in society really accomplishing something.

Sometimes it feels like the only women who can simply nurture, cook, clean and simply be there are those who are “the woman” in a lesbian couple. I’m not saying we don’t have a right to be proud to be women, I’m saying it seems the world does. :imsorry:
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Ah. But I have actually seen posts from many women who do indeed say that they actually physically feel ‘repulsed’ by the idea of having to ‘wear a hat in church’ and that they simply could not do it, even if directed. And I really do feel sorry for somebody who truly must have been deceived into thinking this. I’d feel the same about those who were deluded into thinking anything perfectly fine objectively was some kind of symbol of evil.

And that is NOT the same as somebody who doesn’t feel that she personally wants to wear a hat. Some people don’t care for how they look in hats, or feel uncomfortable with something on their head – that is NOT the same though as the (hopefully few, and the ones I’m sorry for) person who feels that a hat or, more usually a veil, is a disgusting thing and that women who wear them are either trying to FORCE women back to second-class citizens or are deluded themselves.

I hope that makes it clearer --that it is only those women who were told, and then believed, that veils/coverings are a ‘symbol of male oppression’ and who believed this to such an extent that they could never even imagine wearing one because that imagery is so distasteful to them, who are ‘deluded’. Women who just don’t like hats or how they look or just don’t feel right wearing one (but who certainly don’t feel they are symbols of hideous male oppression) aren’t deluded and are perfectly fine.
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Thanks for clearing that up! No…I don’t feel sorry for women that I see veiled in church…just they are called to a different thing then I feel…and for the most part…I don’t get looks from them that they feel superior or more holy or anything…we live in peace at Mass. I did have to wonder the one time I saw a woman veiled…and in a short mini skirt…that one I guess I don’t understand…oh well:shrug:
 
My understanding is that much like the chalice used at Mass, we are a Sacred Vessel. Mary held God in her womb, women hold life for nine months before birth… Our children eat at our breasts. We are treasures valued above rubies and great riches. Women never did cover because of inequality. We covered because God was the head of the Church and men were to shelter us as Christ shelters his Church.

We covered because you did not put your most priceless treasures out for people to use them, abuse them, steal them and take them, because we covered our own glory for the glorification of Christ who dwells within our hearts. There are far more reasons to veil as to not veil yet I generally do not, not because I do not want to, but because my spouse is afraid I will look like a nun… Hmmmm I cannot for the life of me figure out why looking like someone I respect and admire is such a bad thing anyway…

My heart tells me it is best to veil, if at all possible. But in this I submit still to the will of my spouse.
 
At my TLM, some people cover and some do not. I think veiling is a beautiful thing. However, I don’t judge anyone who doesn’t cover. If they don’t feel called to do it, then that’s fine.

What I consider to be a problem is when some get so scrupulous when it comes to veiling that they feel uncomfortable/unworthy to attend mass without a veil. That can’t be right. I’m sure we have all seen folks with napkins on their heads.

Nothing is going to keep me from mass, including a bare head. 😃
 
TrueLight said:
At my TLM, some people cover and some do not. I think veiling is a beautiful thing. However, I don’t judge anyone who doesn’t cover. If they don’t feel called to do it, then that’s fine.

What I consider to be a problem is when some get so scrupulous when it comes to veiling that they feel uncomfortable/unworthy to attend mass without a veil. That can’t be right. I’m sure we have all seen folks with napkins on their heads.

Nothing is going to keep me from mass, including a bare head. 😃
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I don’t think we need to attribute the uncomfortable feeling to scrupulosity. Doing something different than one normally does often makes people feel uncomfortable. I expect most men who usually wear a suit and tie to Mass feel uncomfortable going to Mass without them.
 
I have worn a hat to church for many, many years (even before I started attended a Catholic Church). For me it’s such a habit that NOT wearing a hat in church feels… abnormal.

I DON’T think God is angry with me if I forgo the hat. I don’t think He’s unhappy either but I, personally, don’t feel right. 🤷
 
Thats right. I remember a few months ago it had snowed pretty hard all night so I wore some good jeans, white shirt/gray sweater and a pair of boots. The young people in church came up to me after Mass and said they couldn’t believe what they were seeing; me in jeans. They didn’t even know that I ever owned a pair. One young lady told me she was “shocked” to see me dressed like everyone else.

Kind of made my day. 😃
 
sallysinglemom said:
Is there any chance of The Church bringing the veil back? I really love this tradition and all that it stands for. In a world where you can’t be proud to be simply female (unless you’re in a lesbian relationship) it’s a well needed breath of fresh air.
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I wore a headcovering long before I became a catholic and so I always veil in church.

No one else veils where I go, but I dont worry about what they think, as I am sure they have much more important things to think about 😉

But if you love the tradition go for it!

As it says on my blog…

"Headcovering - what headcovering? - I’m a princess it’s my crown! :byzsoc:
 
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