Venerate the cross or crucifix?

[Michael038]

I suppose that parishes offer Stations at 7PM, because people today just will not stop their day to come to the Church from 2-3PM. IMO after we leave from the church after Good Friday service, there should be nothing, reflecting the emptyness felt by the Apostles until Easter Vigil.

some people are unable to get off of work during those hours of 2-3pm on good friday.

 

[cecilia97]

My church has a relic of the True Cross so we venerated the relic set in a large crucifix. The liturgy was beautiful. I LOVE MY PARISH and I LOVE BEING CATHOLIC!

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

According to the Sacramentary, it states:

1. The celebration of the Lord’s passion takes place in the afternoon, about 3 o’clock, unless pastoral reasons suggest a later hour. The celebration consists of three parts: liturgy of the word, veneration of the cross, and holy communion.

In the United States, if the size or nature of a parish or other community indicates the pastoral need for an additional service, the local Ordinary may permit the service to be repeated later.

That ever “plastic” pharse “Pastoral Need” or it’s cousin “Pastoral Decision”, which can be shaped into whatever is needed. IMO, yes maybe additional services need to be provided if last year 3000 people showed at a parish church that only holds 1000. But I doubt that is the case. Or the parish does not have a resident priest and the nearest parish is over an hour away.

By the way I love your Church If it’s the one I’m thinking of with the marble altar and they way you moved the Baptismal font into the main church. It’s too bad that it’s locked up tighter than a drum except during Mass times.

 

[LilyM]

None of this is helping to answer the question of bare cross v crucifix though …

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

None of this is helping to answer the question of bare cross v crucifix though …

I think that was answered many posts ago. It’s hard to kiss the feet when there are no feet there.

 

[teachccd]

Here’s another one of those times where we throw out the message in search for the particulars.

I left that space for those tomatoes being tossed at me to go through. It’s called the** Veneration of the Cross**. We venerate the fact that Jesus died for us. The invitation said by the priest is, " **This is the wood of the cross, on which hung the Savior of the world". **If you read that carefully you can conclude that the corpus of Christ is not mandated for this part of the Good Friday service. If a crucifix is used, obviously it is fitting but like the wood of the manger where Our Lord was born we now recognize the wood of the Cross where our Savior died… God Bless

 

[Indyann]

Here’s another one of those times where we throw out the message in search for the particulars.

I left that space for those tomatoes being tossed at me to go through. It’s called the** Veneration of the Cross**. We venerate the fact that Jesus died for us. The invitation said by the priest is, " This is the wood of the cross, on which hung the Savior of the world". If you read that carefully you can conclude that the corpus of Christ is not mandated for this part of the Good Friday service. If a crucifix is used, obviously it is fitting but like the wood of the manger where Our Lord was born we now recognize the wood of the Cross where our Savior died… God Bless

Crucifix in my parish and we all kissed the feet of Jesus, as did Pope Benedict.

 

[teachccd]

Crucifix in my parish and we all kissed the feet of Jesus, as did Pope Benedict.

Wouldn’t it be easier if Rome changed the nomenclature to " Veneration of the Crucifix"? There is a distinction between a cross and crucifix. Why emphasize the wood of the Cross on which our Savior hung? Why not change the words to " This is our Saviour which hung on the wood of the Cross"? Conflicting but I have no problem using a crucifix for the Veneration of the Cross. Anyway, as with all venerations, it sets our minds to God. There is nothing “magical” about the object of veneration. As long as we recognize the death of Christ as an infinite love we needn’t split hairs. This is not Sacramental matter which actualizes the graces and life of God that they represent.

I throw in the towel on this one… …teachccd

 

[patrick457]

I guess the reason why the Vatican doesn’t change the name into ‘Adoration of the Crucifix’ is because of the High-Context Culture thing. It is perhaps understood why is this thing like this, without the need to explain thoroughly.

(Italy, and by extension the Vatican, is what we call a ‘High-context Culture’ area. In a High-context Culture area, you are expected to know what a particular thing is without having to explain it to you further. In a high context culture, many things are left unsaid, letting the culture explain.
High context cultures are more common in the eastern cultures than in western, and in countries with low racial diversity. Cultures where the group is valued over the individual promote the in-groups and group reliance that favor high context cultures.
The Middle East also happens to be a High-Context Culture Area, which explains why the Bible is difficult to understand without knowing the culture since it doesn’t explain thoroughly why such and such is like that.

In contrast, America is an example of what we call a ‘Low-Context Culture’ where much more is explained through words, instead of the context. A low context culture explains things further, because those in a low context culture have a wide variety of background.)

 

[Trident59]

Just got back from Veneration today at Holy Rosary in Portland, OR. The Dominicans used a crucifix. It was processed down the aisle till it was placed in front of the Altar. The shroud was removed and all the Dominicans then, in turn kissed the feet of Christ on the Cross. The Faithful were then invited to the communion rail where two True Cross relics were presented(One on each side of the aisle). And just as in communion we went to the rail, knelt, and as the Cross was presented we kissed the Relic.

Tallis’s Lamentations of Jeremiah were sung by the Schola. It was beautiful.

Too bad English isn’t a prettier sounding language. The Lamentaions were in Latin which helped add a more reverent “note” to the day.

 

[Cadence]

Well I am away from home this Easter and am in Ireland. The church I went to yesterday had a plane cross and I was horrified! I have never seen such a thing! I have always kissed the feet of Christ on the Cross - I was so upset I started crying right there in the pew! The services over Holy Week are so important to me and I look forward to them every year. I was so upset that I couldn’t kiss Christ’s feet. I kissed the Crucifix I wore around my neck instead. I just couldnt bring myself to go up and kiss the bare cross. Was this wrong of me? I was just beside myself upset.

 

[sneakers]

Just got back from Veneration today at Holy Rosary in Portland, OR. The Dominicans used a crucifix. It was processed down the aisle till it was placed in front of the Altar. The shroud was removed and all the Dominicans then, in turn kissed the feet of Christ on the Cross. The Faithful were then invited to the communion rail where two True Cross relics were presented(One on each side of the aisle). And just as in communion we went to the rail, knelt, and as the Cross was presented we kissed the Relic.

Tallis’s Lamentations of Jeremiah were sung by the Schola. It was beautiful.

Too bad English isn’t a prettier sounding language. The Lamentaions were in Latin which helped add a more reverent “note” to the day.

It sounds beautiful. Contemplating what you describe has me in tears. How I long for this in my own church.

Blessings,
sneakers

 

[sneakers]

I was so upset that I couldn’t kiss Christ’s feet. I kissed the Crucifix I wore around my neck instead. I just couldnt bring myself to go up and kiss the bare cross. Was this wrong of me? I was just beside myself upset.

I considered the same thing myself, but went up anyway. Our church has used a bare wooden cross since we got a new priest two years ago.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Wouldn’t it be easier if Rome changed the nomenclature to " Veneration of the Crucifix"? There is a distinction between a cross and crucifix. Why emphasize the wood of the Cross on which our Savior hung? Why not change the words to " This is our Saviour which hung on the wood of the Cross"? Conflicting but I have no problem using a crucifix for the Veneration of the Cross. Anyway, as with all venerations, it sets our minds to God. There is nothing “magical” about the object of veneration. As long as we recognize the death of Christ as an infinite love we needn’t split hairs. This is not Sacramental matter which actualizes the graces and life of God that they represent.

I throw in the towel on this one… …teachccd

Well it is also a Catholic identity thing. If my mother had told me or any Catholic for that matter 30 years ago to go and get the “Cross” from her bedroom. I would have gone and gotten the Crucifix from the wall just inside the door. I would not have been confused looking for a plain cross.

Even the Church uses this term today. It is called a “Processional Cross” and it is required to have the inage of the crucified body of Christ on it.

 

[frommi]

There has never been an indication that there must be a corpus on the cross used for veneration on Good Friday.

Even if the Pope does something a particular way that might make it example for everyone else, but lacking a rubric…it’s hardly something that carries the weight of church law.

 

[joshua1]

IT sure does seem a bit out of place since Christ was already in the tomb at that time, and it’s technically already Holy Saturday, Good Friday has already ended liturgically.

Christ was on the Cross from noon to 3 PM and died at 3 PM! Not 7:30 PM. Which reminds me I need to get off of here.

Christ was not crucified according to our time zone. Israel being several time zones ahead of us, even our three o clock service is too late. As 3 pm, its what about 9 pm in Israel? Besides, its always 3 pm somwhere in the world. I dont think it has to be celebrated at the precise moment, its what we are remembering and commemorating, not the time it happened. Just a thought

 

[teachccd]

Well it is also a Catholic identity thing. If my mother had told me or any Catholic for that matter 30 years ago to go and get the “Cross” from her bedroom. I would have gone and gotten the Crucifix from the wall just inside the door. I would not have been confused looking for a plain cross.

Even the Church uses this term today. It is called a “Processional Cross” and it is required to have the inage of the crucified body of Christ on it.

I guess my question is: Is the veneration of a sacramental so impacting upon our faith that the Holy See must define what type of sacramental is used? Kissing a crucifix or a cross holds no value if the person venerating does not focus his/her mind on Christ. The crucifix or cross, in and of itself, is no more than an item used for reflection. We would be moving into idolatry if we thought otherwise. So why is it such a big deal if we use a cross or a crucifix. I’ve seen rosaries made in many different fashions, even rings. My question regards our faith in Christ and His crucifixion. If I venerate a plain cross would I not know that it was Christ who hung on it and that He is the One who I direct my prayer?? God Bless…teachccd

 

[brotherhrolf]

At 55, I have never venerated a cross. It has always been a crucifix and we kiss the feet of Our Lord. “We adore Thee O Christ and we bless Thee because by thy Holy Cross Thou hast redeemed the world.” We adore Thee O Christ. He is the object of veneration not the wood of the cross.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I guess my question is: Is the veneration of a sacramental so impacting upon our faith that the Holy See must define what type of sacramental is used? Kissing a crucifix or a cross holds no value if the person venerating does not focus his/her mind on Christ. The crucifix or cross, in and of itself, is no more than an item used for reflection. We would be moving into idolatry if we thought otherwise. So why is it such a big deal if we use a cross or a crucifix. I’ve seen rosaries made in many different fashions, even rings. My question regards our faith in Christ and His crucifixion. If I venerate a plain cross would I not know that it was Christ who hung on it and that He is the One who I direct my prayer?? God Bless…teachccd

We are not speaking here about a private devotion but a Public Liturgy that the Church HAS defined.

 

[Danw]

Well, our Holy Father used a crucifix at yesterday’s liturgy so that is all I need to know. I did do a search on the net and found this interesting article. catholicherald.com/cns/stones.htm Surprise. The bishops cannot even agree.

Our church used a cross, which I don’t really have a problem with, but I like things to be right, as in orthodox. If one can’t be trusted in little things how can one be trusted in larger things?

Blessed Easter to everyone.